Big Ed: Back to Local Radio

[fred flintstone]

This is interesting:
All Access sez....

Report: Ed Schultz Considering Reviving Local Fargo Show
The FARGO FORUM reports that JONES/P1 syndicated talker ED SCHULTZ is considering a return to local talk with a show on soon-to-be-INGSTAD Talk KFGO-A/FARGO, his former home on the FARGO dial. The new show, if SCHULTZ decides to take the offer, would not replace the syndicated national version, which formerly aired on KFGO and presently airs on crosstown TRIAD Talk KQWB-A (TALKRADIO 1660).

"He's made me a very nice offer," SCHULTZ tells the FORUM about INGSTAD. "I just haven't decided if I'm going to take it yet."

For those of you who tuned in late...
Ed Schultz was doing mornings on KFGO when Democracy Radio knocked on his door with a syndication offer. For a time, he stayed on the morning show and KFGO bumped the afternoon show to carry his syndicated show. After a few months, KFGO replaced him on the local morning show. The guys KFGO dropped went to a competing station and beat syndicated Big Ed in the afternoons. So, KFGO dropped Ed's syndicated show and brought back their afternoon team. Ed still does his show from KFGO.

Ed Schultz' experience is not uncommon. It's not unheard of for a popular local host to lose some of his hometown appeal when he goes national. Continuing a local show maintains a host's hometown presence.

This would not be unprecedented.
Thom Hartmann does a local morning show in Portland, OR and a syndicated show.
When Rush started out, he did a local show for WABC, New York and his syndicated show.
In both these instances, the national show was not cleared locally (except for best of episodes on the weekend).
Mike Gallagher does two local hours in Dallas for morning drive followed by the first hour of his national show.
Any other national-local hosts out there?

Wonder if we will see any more syndicated hosts add local shows?
Could Randi re-start her local show in West Palm?

These is a fair amount of duplication in doing a local and national show. Doing both shows is far less than twice as much work. Much material can be used on both shows.

 

[raccoonradio]

not a separate show, but the first three hours of Howie Carr are heard all over New England while the last hour is Mass & Maine only.

 

[clbuck]

This would not be unprecedented.
Thom Hartmann does a local morning show in Portland, OR and a syndicated show.
When Rush started out, he did a local show for WABC, New York and his syndicated show.
In both these instances, the national show was not cleared locally (except for best of episodes on the weekend).
Mike Gallagher does two local hours in Dallas for morning drive followed by the first hour of his national show.
Any other national-local hosts out there?

Lars Larson does a Northwest-only syndicated show based out of KXL from 11 AM-3 PM PT, and a national show for Westwood One from 3 PM–6 PM PT (which airs delayed at 9 PM PT on KXL).

 

[bigtalkradiofan]

Also not a separate show...
(I believe) Colin Cowherd, who used to live on the west coast, does a "west coast hour" (west coast syndication) prior to his 3 hours of nationally-syndicated sports talk show.

 

[fred flintstone]

Fighting Irish has some additional info on the Big Ed story on his blog .

Outside of talk radio, Delilah does a syndicated show and has recently added a local show for New York. In fact, this sort of thing is not uncommon in music radio with jocks doing local shows and shows for syndication (often via voice tracking).

 

[Signal_Faded]

Lars Larson does a Northwest-only syndicated show based out of KXL from 11 AM-3 PM PT, and a national show for Westwood One from 3 PM–6 PM PT (which airs delayed at 9 PM PT on KXL).

I don't know how Lars does 6 hours a day! Thats a marathon!

 

[Scribbler]

Lars Larson does a Northwest-only syndicated show based out of KXL from 11 AM-3 PM PT, and a national show for Westwood One from 3 PM–6 PM PT (which airs delayed at 9 PM PT on KXL).

I don't know how Lars does 6 hours a day! Thats a marathon!

Larson isn't even the only one in Portland who does this. Thom Hartmann does his local show on KPOJ from 6am to 9am and then does his national show from 9am to Noon. He's also filled in for Randi Rhodes, which meant that he was on the air for TEN consecutive hours.

 

[ajhenderson]

Yes, Scribbler, we know... Thom Hartmann is the best, the Iron Man, etc., etc., etc. However, just like when I put too much water in my kool-aid mix, the flavor is less profound. Maybe all those hours he does explains why he's so boring. He's only interesting in a concentrated quantity, and is too spread out.

Same for Lars Larson's shows. A good voice, but scant on content, at least nationally. He actually is fed for 7, not 6, hours a day, but I'm unsure whether the 2-3pm hour for the NW is a repeat of 11-noon.

The Schultz move WOULD be unprecedented, however, in that Schultz would be the only significant host to, unlike Rush, Thom, et al, do a local show for a 200-something market. And would that mean his national show would return with him? You can't clear a national show on a different station than the host does his LOCAL show on

 

[fred flintstone]

Yes, Scribbler, we know... Thom Hartmann is the best, the Iron Man, etc., etc., etc. However, just like when I put too much water in my kool-aid mix, the flavor is less profound. Maybe all those hours he does explains why he's so boring. He's only interesting in a concentrated quantity, and is too spread out.

Same for Lars Larson's shows. A good voice, but scant on content, at least nationally. He actually is fed for 7, not 6, hours a day, but I'm unsure whether the 2-3pm hour for the NW is a repeat of 11-noon.

The Schultz move WOULD be unprecedented, however, in that Schultz would be the only significant host to, unlike Rush, Thom, et al, do a local show for a 200-something market. And would that mean his national show would return with him? You can't clear a national show on a different station than the host does his LOCAL show on

Who says? Why not? Sure you can.
Back in the day, local hosts on WOR and WNEW in New York also did work for NBC's Monitor (carried on WNBC).
I'm sure there are other examples and people will post them.

Scribbler, I did mention Hartmann in my original post. Sorry if I did not make the mention prominent enough.
And I imagine Hartmann's last hour for Randi is like the dog walking on his hind legs. It's not that he does it well but that he does it at all that is remarkable. Hartmann is dumb and irresponsible to try something like that (no matter how many NLP tricks he knows). He does a disservice to his employer, the listeners and to advertisers. Doing two shows (six hours, five days a week) is pushing it. Something has to suffer (like show prep). Hartmann's triple headers are a triumph of ambition or ego over common sense.

 

[Radio_Realist]

Don't you just love oversimplifications about local programming, as if it was more important where the broadcaster parked his butt when he talked into the mic than what it is he is actually saying into the mic.

Here's a simply piece of wisdom, one that should be the bedrock of news/talk radio.

It doesn't matter if iprogramming is local or national, it does matter if the content and delivery is good or not.

 

[fred flintstone]

Many things matter.

Content and delivery among them.

The issue is not where anyone parks his or her butt.

Included in content are state and local issues which listeners do care about and which national hosts can not and will not discuss.

When local hosts go national, their ratings often drop in their hometowns precisely because they are no longer addressing local issues (even though their butt remains parked in same location).

What's the number one talk station in Pittsburgh?
And which station is all local and live weekdays (6am-10pm and overnights)?

What are the top-rated and biggest revenue-generating talk radio stations in....
Chicago?
Cincinnati?
San Francisco?
And which are all local and live?

 

[ajhenderson]

Well, Neal Boortz is now on KDKA from 7-10pm, so they're getting less and less local.

I agree that local content makes a different, but the issue that typically makes the most live/local station in a given market the most successful is the planning that management puts into said station. Having local hosts is just one part of that. Most stations that are wall-to-wall syndicated content: a) typically don't get all or any of the top tier hosts, and have to run B- and C-list hosts, and b) are generally schlock operations run as the last station in a cluster for efficiency purposes, a tax writeoff, or some other reason. These stations aren't promoted and nobody really cares about them.

 

[FightingIrish]

Yes, Scribbler, we know... Thom Hartmann is the best, the Iron Man, etc., etc., etc. However, just like when I put too much water in my kool-aid mix, the flavor is less profound. Maybe all those hours he does explains why he's so boring. He's only interesting in a concentrated quantity, and is too spread out.

Same for Lars Larson's shows. A good voice, but scant on content, at least nationally. He actually is fed for 7, not 6, hours a day, but I'm unsure whether the 2-3pm hour for the NW is a repeat of 11-noon.

The Schultz move WOULD be unprecedented, however, in that Schultz would be the only significant host to, unlike Rush, Thom, et al, do a local show for a 200-something market. And would that mean his national show would return with him? You can't clear a national show on a different station than the host does his LOCAL show on

Who says? Why not? Sure you can.
Back in the day, local hosts on WOR and WNEW in New York also did work for NBC's Monitor (carried on WNBC).
I'm sure there are other examples and people will post them.

Scribbler, I did mention Hartmann in my original post. Sorry if I did not make the mention prominent enough.
And I imagine Hartmann's last hour for Randi is like the dog walking on his hind legs. It's not that he does it well but that he does it at all that is remarkable. Hartmann is dumb and irresponsible to try something like that (no matter how many NLP tricks he knows). He does a disservice to his employer, the listeners and to advertisers. Doing two shows (six hours, five days a week) is pushing it. Something has to suffer (like show prep). Hartmann's triple headers are a triumph of ambition or ego over common sense.

Since more stations have cleared his show in recent months, he's been doing the KPOJ show and the national show only. And sometimes he'll replay a KPOJ interview on the syndicated show. No more filling in for Randi, though AAR did air his show on their main feed while Franken was in Iraq over the holidays. Rhodes brought in the very good Stacy Taylor from KLSD to do fill-ins over the holidays.

Still, Hartmann is a workaholic. He's currently promoting his 18th book as well, and even did his show live on New Year's Day. But all his hard work is paying off, since he's been clearing more and more affiliates as of late.

 

[fred flintstone]

Well, Neal Boortz is now on KDKA from 7-10pm, so they're getting less and less local.

I agree that local content makes a different, but the issue that typically makes the most live/local station in a given market the most successful is the planning that management puts into said station. Having local hosts is just one part of that. Most stations that are wall-to-wall syndicated content: a) typically don't get all or any of the top tier hosts, and have to run B- and C-list hosts, and b) are generally schlock operations run as the last station in a cluster for efficiency purposes, a tax writeoff, or some other reason. These stations aren't promoted and nobody really cares about them.

Evenings and weekends do get some attention on this board but out in the world, Monday through Friday 6 am to 7 pm is still where the listeners are - and where the money is.

And I agree: Local needs to be good to be competitive. Local alone is not enough. Local for the sake of being local won't cut it. And only the heritage blow-torches can really afford to do good local and make money with it - the WGNs, KGOs, WLWs and KDKAs. It wish that weren't so and there were all sorts of jobs out there for people doing local talk radio, but that's not how things are.

 

[Radio_Realist]

What's the number one talk station in Pittsburgh?

News-Talk 104.7

And which station is all local and live weekdays (6am-10pm and overnights)?

No Pittsburgh talk station is all local and live weekends. KDKA, who is slipping further and further down in the ratings, has live AM and PM drive time shows, both of which are badly done.

News-Talk 104.7 carries the syndicated Quinn in the Morning Show live from 6:00 AM to 9:00 AM, and repeats the 6:00 hour from 9:00 AM to 10:00 AM. Though Quinn and his sidekick Rose "park their butts" in the local Clear Channel studios in Pittsburgh, their show is syndicated, so the content is 99% national. The only local Pittsburgh issues they raise are those with national implications or plugs for personal appearances.

The only other local program is the sports talk show in between drive time and Michael Savage.

So, what's your point?

 

[fred flintstone]

What's the number one talk station in Pittsburgh?

News-Talk 104.7

Wrong! You lose at Radio Jeopardy.
KDKA remains the top talker. Too bad I can't cite specific numbers but I'm sure anybody who wants to knows where to look up the 12+ AQH share ratings online.

The FM has shown some improvement but they aren't close to KDKA yet.
And KDKA is all local and live when it counts- weekdays 6am to 7 pm. Nobody said anything about weekends.

You are welcome to your opinion of their programming but apparently most people out there don't share it and are listening.

 

[Radio_Realist]

KDKA remains the top talker.

You need to look at the latest ratings. Not only has WPGB passed KDKA, WDSY has as well.

You are welcome to your opinion of their programming but apparently most people out there don't share it and are listening.

Actually, very few people under the age of 60 are listening to KDKA. Even when KDKA was #1, the best the got was one out of ten people listening to them, which isn't "most" by any stretch of anyone's imagination.

 

[ajhenderson]

Actually, very few people under the age of 60 are listening to KDKA.

You're very kind.

Evenings and weekends do get some attention on this board but out in the world, Monday through Friday 6 am to 7 pm is still where the listeners are - and where the money is.

Well, if the future of talk is on FM, which attracts younger audiences, it does matter. The bulk of listening may be then, but younger people especially listen later, and when you consider that well over half of listening is in a stationery position, ie work or at home, it's reasonable to demand good programming at all hours. Also keep in mind that George Noory cumes roughly 1% nationally, doing a show that airs 1-5am ET. The middle of the night.

 

[fred flintstone]

KDKA remains the top talker.

You need to look at the latest ratings. Not only has WPGB passed KDKA, WDSY has as well.

"Top Talker!"
WDSY is a country station - not a talk station; number one rated WDVE is classic rock.
KDKA was number two in the last book and the phase one trends; number three in the phrase two trends.
What book are you looking at? WPGB is almost two share points back at number four.

And all talk radio skews old. Nothing new about that.

 

[Radio_Realist]

KDKA was number two in the last book and the phase one trends; number three in the phrase two trends.

My bad. I was only considering demographics that advertisers cared about. You are indeed correct. Even though KDKA is losing listeners at an ever-accelerating pace, and is scrambling around for the solution to turn around their plunge into the depths, while WPGB is rising at almost as fast a pace, and if both stations continue moving the way they are moving, will switch spots on the overall ratings list, at this point in time, KDKA is still ahead of WPGB in overall ratings.

So, are you suggesting that stations should look to the dying KDKA as an example of the way to win over strong, vigorous competition? Are you suggesting that as long as every baboushka in Lawrenceville has her Atwater-Kent tuned to 1020 and doesn't know how to change the station if she wanted to, KDKA is a station others should emulate? How many other cities in the US (outside of Florida) skew as old as the population of Pittsburgh?

And we're not just talking "old" as in Baby Boomers. We're talking "old" as in people who had been listening to KDKA since the time when Rege Cordic came over from WWSW! We're talking "old" as in people who voted for Franklin Delano Roosevelt. To say KDKA skews old is a total understatement. KDKA doesn't skew old, KDKA skews ancient!