It's not just the corporations. It's the people who make the music. Seems to me that if you like something, and it gives you pleasure, the people who make it should get something in return. Or is that a generational thing?
-
Get involved.
We want your input!
Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.
After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.
After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/
Thanks in advance and have fun!
RadioDiscussions Administrators
Big radio, it’s time to get over Pandora
- Thread starter davideduardo
- Start date
It's not just the corporations. It's the people who make the music. Seems to me that if you like something, and it gives you pleasure, the people who make it should get something in return. Or is that a generational thing?
That is a poor analogy.
Music, to the fan, is timeless... or at least it depreciated very slowly.
A computer is generally made to last a few years, at which point the device is obsolete in many ways. If it breaks at that point, it was time to replace it anyway.
For most people building a PC from components is too challenging, and the decisions require knowledge beyond that of the average person. And even if you are up to the task, 3-4 years is about the limit a system, with mechanical parts that have to be replaced even sooner, such as non-ssd hard drives, fans, cooling systems, etc. And there is no service or guarantee on a home-brew rig.
Example:
I just built a new "main" computer. Picked a silent Corsair mid-size tower case, and an Asus X99 Motherboard with USB 3.1 support. Main drive is an Intel NVMe, which required a BIOS update to run on a licensed copy of Win 7 which I use to support several vertical market processing apps. I put 64gb of Corsair 2666 memory in and an Intel 6 core i7 5820 with Corsair water cooling. The working storage is a 2gb Samsung 850, with 2 x WD red 6gb hard drives in RAID for automatic backups. Video is a Sapphire Radeon R9 380. Keyboard is a custom WASD with Chery Blue switches, mouse is a Corsair M65 and the monitor is a Viewsonic 4k. There is also a 2.5 and 3.5 inch hard drive dock, BluRay DVD / CD burner and some other added stuff. And if anything goes wrong, it's my problem. Other than going online, there is nobody to call for service as it's one-of-a-kind.
Question;
Based on my example and all the decisions behind the selection of components (things like choosing between SATA, mSata or NVMe), how many consumers would want to build such a system? Or wouldn't they rather get an inexpensive, mass produced model that they can replace with something better all ready to use in a few years?
I went into all this detail to point out that you seem to have something against companies that provide a legal and legitimate product that fills most consumers' needs at the right price point and which is at least minimally guaranteed and serviceable.
Last edited:
G
Groove1670
Guest
I always love the argument about evil corporations, and when the people who despise them buy and support their services everyday. With a anti-corporate picket sign in one hand, and a I-phone in the other with a cup of Starbucks on the table. I call it economic ignorance. Also how crappy radio is because of corporations, when their are still thousands on independently owned radio stations across the country. In my market for example, 15 of the stations are owned by independent operators.
Last edited by a moderator:
I currently have 4 computers the oldest of which is my "hastily slapped together Dell factory PC". It has been in daily use since 2003, 12 years, with repairs consisting of a new hard drive and.....that's it. Even then the old HD did not fail but I thought it was time. It runs fine and, although not as fast as my 2-year old custom built Corsair is just dandy for the wifey's use.
I guess your music library will be a lot of help in a traffic jam on the expressway when car phone data isn't working, you see weather coming in and want to know what's going on with the traffic and the weather. Radio provides these services in a way that minimizes distraction for the driver. Radio has a place and will continue to have a prominent place in the media landscape. It will be less prominent, perhaps much so, from the place it has occupied, but it will be there.
Yes, many young people do strongly believe that music should be free, but most simply don't think about it because it's so easy to get it for free. At some point, anti-piracy tools will make this enough of a hassle that more will pay for their music, but they will still be buying singles because the distribution model has evolved. Radio will still be part of that mix of introducing artists and allowing at least some to discover music they otherwise may not have been exposed to. It's not one or the other, but what percentage people will use each service.
Yes, many young people do strongly believe that music should be free, but most simply don't think about it because it's so easy to get it for free. At some point, anti-piracy tools will make this enough of a hassle that more will pay for their music, but they will still be buying singles because the distribution model has evolved. Radio will still be part of that mix of introducing artists and allowing at least some to discover music they otherwise may not have been exposed to. It's not one or the other, but what percentage people will use each service.
D
Darth_vader
Guest
Hi, 'zis WBAI? 'M I on the air (I on the air?) Alright, thanks for taking my call (or taking my call), uh, anyways, you said earlier, (ou said earlier) wait, hold ona minute... (ait, hold on a minute) Alright, you said earlier and I quote
And, you know, that elicited an "oh lord, here we go again" from me and undoubtedly many other, uh, listeners as well, since you definitely know a topic has gone to seed when people start dragging the "S" word into it. Uh, that is an ages-old (albeit recent) misapplication of the term that just doesn't seem to want to die. I and countless others around, uh, the Web and elsewhere have, ehm, been debunking this little bit since maybe the, the Mitnick age.
But, um, once over again, with feeling, okay: "stealling" means physically depriving the owner of a piece of property without the owner's authorisation, 'kay? In other words, uh, it means, um, taking another kid's ball without asking. Period. I mean, if you were to enter into a store and slip a CD under their jacket and walk out with it, uh, yeah, that's stealling. Likewise, uh, gaining read/write access to another's account on a remote computer system, then copying a file from the remote machine to your disk then deleting the remote copy whilst keeping your copy for yourself could, uh, in a somewhat convoluted sense of the term be considered theft. (Uh, but that's why you always back your data up regularly and restrict access to your system, isn't it? *cough* Firewall *cough*)
'Scuse me. But anyways, Youtube is neither of those cases, neither is, uh, capturing an audio stream with VLC or getting a torrent or any of those other things. Youtube and audio streaming is usually a point-to-point copy and little else. Copying a file from one machine to another, uh, with the source file still on the remote machine's disk, is simply making a copy. Besides, under, uh, normal operations, any time you open ANY media file on Youtube it's being downloaded to your system (usually into your browser cache directory), regardless. This file can be moved out of your cache *ALREADY ON YOUR OWN DISK* and to wherever the hell you want, uh, so the whole point really is moot, isn't it?
I mean, it's no different than if you were to go to a public library, pull any book off the shelf, uh, Xerox every page in the book (can we say "Xerox" on here? Okay, "photocopy"), put the original book back on the shelf then leave with the copy, they have neither stolen anything nor have they deprived the library of anything, except maybe a little bit of toner and some electricity. Bonus points if you (gasp! shock! horror!) brought your own ream of copy paper with you. No, you haven't, uh, "stolen" the book, you've left with a facsimile of it, see? Now if one were to, uh, just take the book off the shelf, slip the book into their backpack, and walk out with it, they will have deprived the library of ownership of that book as well as usage of it to other library guests, see?
I mean, of course, this reality won't let, uh, industry propagandists stop them from, you know, spinning and distorting the terms to suit their particular ideology, no matter what sort of corrections me or KeithE4 or landtuna (yes, I saw the other thread) or thousands of other people have said over the years. After all, how dare anybody in conformist god-fearing Amerikkka say or think anything that might challenge the status quo! Our streets aren't safe at night unless you lock us all up like the evil terrorist scum we obviously are and throw away the keys! Should I start singing our national anthem on these airwaves? I duknow, Ol' Frankie's probably gonna want a royalty.
Now to that other caller who mentioned, uh, carphones and the like, uh, yes, my music library in particular has been incredily helpful when I've, uh, been stuck in traffic and it's apparent the guy who said that bit earlier has never gotten stuck in Seattle or especially Portland, or California traffic without one. And I think he mentioned weather and traffic reports, well, uh, I know for a fact that (heh, heh) if you have a scanner in your car or, heck, you don't even need that much, many better car stereos these days can tune it; but anyways, uh, in most parts of the US there's NOAA weather, I think it's just above the police band there, and of course, you know, with the scanner, a lot of major areas have traffic helicopters, uh, orbiting in the 450 megahertz range, and when you're on I-5 and it's, you know, literally a parking lot, it's really not much of a "distraction" from anything to program your rig to do a 450 MHz range scan. God knows you're not doing anything else except, you know, maybe cursing out your luck for getting stuck there, you know? So yes, to, uh, refute his statement, yes, radio is definitely viable for that purpose but, uh, not the kind he's probably thinking of, right.
Finally, uh, to the point about the underground economy, um, it's still just as, uh, strong, and viable and relevant as it always has been and will continue to be so, even more now than it was back in the day uh, and although you can't see it I'm raising my fist in support of the fight; not "war", uh, since that's a term the right keeps trotting out to gain support, not realising the, uh, consequences the word itself carries with it, but the _fight_ against oppression in amerika and support of the underground, because there can never truly be freedom without anarchism and counterculture. You ever read, uh, Hoffman's "Steal This Book", No, I don't suppose you have. It'd probably give you nightmares *laughs* because it's too "controversial" or, uh, just too, uh, "underground" but aren't those things what 'BAI is all about? And I have and it's still relevant today as it was, uh, back in 1970 when Abbie Hoffman, who himself was a caller to Bob Fass' own program on this very same station that long ago, first wrote it. You know, 'cause Abbie himself was exercising his right to, uh, free speech, And I mean I was, uh, criticised on Bob Fass' show just the other day right off the bat when I called in and he wouldn't give me thirty seconds to, uh, say my bit. I mean, how can you have a fine station like this, which I'm an original subscriber to by the way, that prides itself on, uh, freedom of speech, and somebody like Bob Fass, who's well known and revered in the underground, uh, won't even let an original listener say my bit on his show? I mean, how is that freedom of speech?
Anyways, great show and, uh, to kind of swing it back on topic, heh heh, uh, I'll leave you with these few, uh, choice words before I depart, as was said earlier by another caller, then I'm gonna hang up and listen to your response on the air, but I wanna leave you with these final words that another, uh, caller said about so-called music "piracy", uh, that it was unenforceable years ago, and it's uh, still unenforceable now _and we all did it_, and we'll probably keep doing it so what's the sense in, uh, fighting it? Okay, uh, anyways, thanks for taking my call, and great show as always. *ta-tick*
And, you know, that elicited an "oh lord, here we go again" from me and undoubtedly many other, uh, listeners as well, since you definitely know a topic has gone to seed when people start dragging the "S" word into it. Uh, that is an ages-old (albeit recent) misapplication of the term that just doesn't seem to want to die. I and countless others around, uh, the Web and elsewhere have, ehm, been debunking this little bit since maybe the, the Mitnick age.
But, um, once over again, with feeling, okay: "stealling" means physically depriving the owner of a piece of property without the owner's authorisation, 'kay? In other words, uh, it means, um, taking another kid's ball without asking. Period. I mean, if you were to enter into a store and slip a CD under their jacket and walk out with it, uh, yeah, that's stealling. Likewise, uh, gaining read/write access to another's account on a remote computer system, then copying a file from the remote machine to your disk then deleting the remote copy whilst keeping your copy for yourself could, uh, in a somewhat convoluted sense of the term be considered theft. (Uh, but that's why you always back your data up regularly and restrict access to your system, isn't it? *cough* Firewall *cough*)
'Scuse me. But anyways, Youtube is neither of those cases, neither is, uh, capturing an audio stream with VLC or getting a torrent or any of those other things. Youtube and audio streaming is usually a point-to-point copy and little else. Copying a file from one machine to another, uh, with the source file still on the remote machine's disk, is simply making a copy. Besides, under, uh, normal operations, any time you open ANY media file on Youtube it's being downloaded to your system (usually into your browser cache directory), regardless. This file can be moved out of your cache *ALREADY ON YOUR OWN DISK* and to wherever the hell you want, uh, so the whole point really is moot, isn't it?
I mean, it's no different than if you were to go to a public library, pull any book off the shelf, uh, Xerox every page in the book (can we say "Xerox" on here? Okay, "photocopy"), put the original book back on the shelf then leave with the copy, they have neither stolen anything nor have they deprived the library of anything, except maybe a little bit of toner and some electricity. Bonus points if you (gasp! shock! horror!) brought your own ream of copy paper with you. No, you haven't, uh, "stolen" the book, you've left with a facsimile of it, see? Now if one were to, uh, just take the book off the shelf, slip the book into their backpack, and walk out with it, they will have deprived the library of ownership of that book as well as usage of it to other library guests, see?
I mean, of course, this reality won't let, uh, industry propagandists stop them from, you know, spinning and distorting the terms to suit their particular ideology, no matter what sort of corrections me or KeithE4 or landtuna (yes, I saw the other thread) or thousands of other people have said over the years. After all, how dare anybody in conformist god-fearing Amerikkka say or think anything that might challenge the status quo! Our streets aren't safe at night unless you lock us all up like the evil terrorist scum we obviously are and throw away the keys! Should I start singing our national anthem on these airwaves? I duknow, Ol' Frankie's probably gonna want a royalty.
Now to that other caller who mentioned, uh, carphones and the like, uh, yes, my music library in particular has been incredily helpful when I've, uh, been stuck in traffic and it's apparent the guy who said that bit earlier has never gotten stuck in Seattle or especially Portland, or California traffic without one. And I think he mentioned weather and traffic reports, well, uh, I know for a fact that (heh, heh) if you have a scanner in your car or, heck, you don't even need that much, many better car stereos these days can tune it; but anyways, uh, in most parts of the US there's NOAA weather, I think it's just above the police band there, and of course, you know, with the scanner, a lot of major areas have traffic helicopters, uh, orbiting in the 450 megahertz range, and when you're on I-5 and it's, you know, literally a parking lot, it's really not much of a "distraction" from anything to program your rig to do a 450 MHz range scan. God knows you're not doing anything else except, you know, maybe cursing out your luck for getting stuck there, you know? So yes, to, uh, refute his statement, yes, radio is definitely viable for that purpose but, uh, not the kind he's probably thinking of, right.
Finally, uh, to the point about the underground economy, um, it's still just as, uh, strong, and viable and relevant as it always has been and will continue to be so, even more now than it was back in the day uh, and although you can't see it I'm raising my fist in support of the fight; not "war", uh, since that's a term the right keeps trotting out to gain support, not realising the, uh, consequences the word itself carries with it, but the _fight_ against oppression in amerika and support of the underground, because there can never truly be freedom without anarchism and counterculture. You ever read, uh, Hoffman's "Steal This Book", No, I don't suppose you have. It'd probably give you nightmares *laughs* because it's too "controversial" or, uh, just too, uh, "underground" but aren't those things what 'BAI is all about? And I have and it's still relevant today as it was, uh, back in 1970 when Abbie Hoffman, who himself was a caller to Bob Fass' own program on this very same station that long ago, first wrote it. You know, 'cause Abbie himself was exercising his right to, uh, free speech, And I mean I was, uh, criticised on Bob Fass' show just the other day right off the bat when I called in and he wouldn't give me thirty seconds to, uh, say my bit. I mean, how can you have a fine station like this, which I'm an original subscriber to by the way, that prides itself on, uh, freedom of speech, and somebody like Bob Fass, who's well known and revered in the underground, uh, won't even let an original listener say my bit on his show? I mean, how is that freedom of speech?
Anyways, great show and, uh, to kind of swing it back on topic, heh heh, uh, I'll leave you with these few, uh, choice words before I depart, as was said earlier by another caller, then I'm gonna hang up and listen to your response on the air, but I wanna leave you with these final words that another, uh, caller said about so-called music "piracy", uh, that it was unenforceable years ago, and it's uh, still unenforceable now _and we all did it_, and we'll probably keep doing it so what's the sense in, uh, fighting it? Okay, uh, anyways, thanks for taking my call, and great show as always. *ta-tick*
Last edited:
Vader, it is Stealing. You are depriving the content creator compensation for their work. I agree that You Tube may not apply since they remove content when a copyright claim is made, and display ads which, presumably, provide compensation to the artist, distributor, etc. Vevo certainly is legitimate on YouTube. However, neither you, or anyone else has 'debunked' that getting music from a torrent, etc. is not stealing. Only the owner of the source material has a right to make a copy for their own PERSONAL USE. You using a copy of source material you didn't buy does not qualify as that.
Hopefully technology ends the free ride, and soon.
Hopefully technology ends the free ride, and soon.
Darth,
Have you ever read the Copyright which is printed within the first few pages in every book?
Making a Xerox copy of the book is not permitted without the permission of the copyright holder.
Have you ever read the Copyright which is printed within the first few pages in every book?
Making a Xerox copy of the book is not permitted without the permission of the copyright holder.
You said you were through here a couple pages back. (We should be so lucky.) Pants on fire...
With a name like Darth-Vader makes me wonder how many tickets to Star Wars you have bought in your life. If your so against big corporations why are you promoting one of the hottest properties in the Disney vault with your handle. Makes me think you spent all the money you saved on music, buying corporate made Star Wars toys. But I bet you made your own. You said you were leaving the thread, was this so you could stand in line for Star Wars Tickets?
When I see your handle on this board I just think of a person so in love with the cooperate world and the movie series the corporate industry made, they just have to attach themselves to it some how. Your basing your persona on this board on an industry/cooperate built identity. I know I know you will just say your taking what you want from the movie series and using it how you wish and you didn't have to pay to use it. But I bet sometime in the past or maybe in the present you did buy a Star Wars ticket. Only the Force knows the real truth of your corporate patronage. If anything you play into the corporate model of viral marketing. Some one either see's your handle and thinks to themselves...I need to see the new Star Wars Movie or some one over heard one of your pirated songs playing and goes to Itunes to down load it. You may say you don't support paid media services but you do acknowledge them, and indirectly make people think of them and those that don't want to get "dirty" will simply go to ITunes, Amazon, Netflix or other and get what they want, usually in better quality than stolen or pirated material. That's one reason I pay for music or media, I want the best quality a first generation offers.
When I see your handle on this board I just think of a person so in love with the cooperate world and the movie series the corporate industry made, they just have to attach themselves to it some how. Your basing your persona on this board on an industry/cooperate built identity. I know I know you will just say your taking what you want from the movie series and using it how you wish and you didn't have to pay to use it. But I bet sometime in the past or maybe in the present you did buy a Star Wars ticket. Only the Force knows the real truth of your corporate patronage. If anything you play into the corporate model of viral marketing. Some one either see's your handle and thinks to themselves...I need to see the new Star Wars Movie or some one over heard one of your pirated songs playing and goes to Itunes to down load it. You may say you don't support paid media services but you do acknowledge them, and indirectly make people think of them and those that don't want to get "dirty" will simply go to ITunes, Amazon, Netflix or other and get what they want, usually in better quality than stolen or pirated material. That's one reason I pay for music or media, I want the best quality a first generation offers.
- Status