-
Get involved.
We want your input!
Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.
After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.
After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/
Thanks in advance and have fun!
RadioDiscussions Administrators
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
HEYYYY! So you're bashing....lawyers....E. D. Just think - if Billy Fucillo/Fernandez sold Viagra, it would be HUUUUUUUUUUGE WOOOOOOOOOD.
A few days late and a bunch of dollars short as usual but just saw and thought...Anyone ever hear of confirmation bias?
Who knows? Maybe the nth Caller is an actual listener not just another PP. Does no one here think that just maybe (yes, and even tho the OP seemed to have mixed medias), some portion of the audience may feel just this way? Every single reply from the vested and interested said basically the same thing, listeners don’t care so this point of view can’t possibly be that of an actual listener, and the proof is that this guy sells a lot of cars and also advertises (across media) a lot. Never considering any other possible factors that may have contributed to the success of this particular franchise. There is a name for this sort of argument, that I can’t exactly get from the tip of my tongue at the moment, but it means to take two things that may or may not be related, put them together and say “See? There’s the proof!”
This might have been what talk around the water cooler at newspaper and magazine offices was like 20 or fewer years ago. “We’ve got lot’s of big suhhh…uhh…advertisers spending big bags of bucks and getting rich selling tons of cd players and cassette decks. Our papers contain more full page adds than actual content but no one cares, in fact they like it. Inserts, fall-outs, stick-ons, Sunday papers three inchs thick. They love it all. What could go wrong?”
Does no one even care to acknowledge the micro-burst length of today’s average attention span and the couple zillion media options currently available to distract it?
Radio has survived in fair condition, the digital age thus far. It is with some satisfaction I say this because I always thought newspaper and magazine people thought they were better than us. However, as a programmer, I have long preached to ears full of cotton (and I know that no ideal can ever be accomplished 100% ideally), an ideal that everything on the station has to add up together. If one thing is off, the whole thing is. And that we need to admit to ourselves that we actually don’t know what good radio really is, so deep in the forest… that whole thing. We keep trying to figure it out, we put lots of work and science, blood, sweat and nasal secretions into it, and I think sometimes we get pretty close AND that the process itself is somewhat entertaining. It’s entertaining precisely because it is imperfect. Still, the only ones who really know what good radio is are the listeners. So when one speaks, no matter how crazy and un-representive they may sound to our selective hearing and image of who our listener is, we should probably at least say “Hmmm? Maybe he has a point?” A point we may strongly, at the moment, disagree with, but still a point of view which should at least be given recognition, instead of “Are you crazy?! Insult Mr. Huge? We won’t hear of it!”
If there were no other virtual choices, like twenty years or so ago, I’d go along with the company line too, but today I’m afraid. Not for radio’s death, because I think there will always be a place, albeit a place much less valuable and vital, just as there will for print and phone books. Radio, as we know and have known it, would seem to be standing on some dangerously un-certain ground right now and any attempt to foresee even ten years forth could easily bring on some pretty frightening visions. There will always be radio, but that radio may end up being about as pleasant to interact with as the voice activated, computer generated phone conversations we routinely must have with machines.
Sorry for the length, guess the caller touched a nerve
Cheers!
Who knows? Maybe the nth Caller is an actual listener not just another PP. Does no one here think that just maybe (yes, and even tho the OP seemed to have mixed medias), some portion of the audience may feel just this way? Every single reply from the vested and interested said basically the same thing, listeners don’t care so this point of view can’t possibly be that of an actual listener, and the proof is that this guy sells a lot of cars and also advertises (across media) a lot. Never considering any other possible factors that may have contributed to the success of this particular franchise. There is a name for this sort of argument, that I can’t exactly get from the tip of my tongue at the moment, but it means to take two things that may or may not be related, put them together and say “See? There’s the proof!”
This might have been what talk around the water cooler at newspaper and magazine offices was like 20 or fewer years ago. “We’ve got lot’s of big suhhh…uhh…advertisers spending big bags of bucks and getting rich selling tons of cd players and cassette decks. Our papers contain more full page adds than actual content but no one cares, in fact they like it. Inserts, fall-outs, stick-ons, Sunday papers three inchs thick. They love it all. What could go wrong?”
Does no one even care to acknowledge the micro-burst length of today’s average attention span and the couple zillion media options currently available to distract it?
Radio has survived in fair condition, the digital age thus far. It is with some satisfaction I say this because I always thought newspaper and magazine people thought they were better than us. However, as a programmer, I have long preached to ears full of cotton (and I know that no ideal can ever be accomplished 100% ideally), an ideal that everything on the station has to add up together. If one thing is off, the whole thing is. And that we need to admit to ourselves that we actually don’t know what good radio really is, so deep in the forest… that whole thing. We keep trying to figure it out, we put lots of work and science, blood, sweat and nasal secretions into it, and I think sometimes we get pretty close AND that the process itself is somewhat entertaining. It’s entertaining precisely because it is imperfect. Still, the only ones who really know what good radio is are the listeners. So when one speaks, no matter how crazy and un-representive they may sound to our selective hearing and image of who our listener is, we should probably at least say “Hmmm? Maybe he has a point?” A point we may strongly, at the moment, disagree with, but still a point of view which should at least be given recognition, instead of “Are you crazy?! Insult Mr. Huge? We won’t hear of it!”
If there were no other virtual choices, like twenty years or so ago, I’d go along with the company line too, but today I’m afraid. Not for radio’s death, because I think there will always be a place, albeit a place much less valuable and vital, just as there will for print and phone books. Radio, as we know and have known it, would seem to be standing on some dangerously un-certain ground right now and any attempt to foresee even ten years forth could easily bring on some pretty frightening visions. There will always be radio, but that radio may end up being about as pleasant to interact with as the voice activated, computer generated phone conversations we routinely must have with machines.
Sorry for the length, guess the caller touched a nerve
Cheers!
Radiowrite, you talk as if there's still such a thing as quality control for advertising. That went out the door when Sales Managers who've never been on the air, or spent any time in a studio, moved up to GM. How many stations are running bad MP3 audio because that's what the agency sent? Control over content - particularly agency-produced content? Unheard of in this day and age.
Why are local sales languishing, and radio is becoming ever more dependent national? Simple - transactional buys are understandable to spreadsheet wizards at corporate. They can't quantify relational selling, so it must not be important. Asking a client to let you produce their spot so it fits your format, or asking an agency to produce a spot that won't clash with your format would cost you a buy. We know what the end result of that VERY short discussion would be. Oh, BTW, the number of local sales people is down considerably. In many cases, it's because corporate thinks that sales people should simply be "order takers", because the numbers should sell themselves. Well, maybe that works in NYC, but not in WNY.
Unfortunately, listeners are in the "also ran" category when it comes to decision making. They come after corporate management, local management, and sponsor considerations. You'd think that sponsors would be concerned about listeners, but these days they're more concerned about cost-per-point. The attitude is "The listeners will take what we give them." Clustering has created a far less competitive situation than once existed - in radio anyway.
Too many radio people stick their fingers in their ears and scream "LALALALALALALALA" when somebody mentions other music delivery systems. Or, they assume that radio is headed toward the dustbin of history, and simply want to extract as many dollars as possible while they're still there for the taking.
Why are local sales languishing, and radio is becoming ever more dependent national? Simple - transactional buys are understandable to spreadsheet wizards at corporate. They can't quantify relational selling, so it must not be important. Asking a client to let you produce their spot so it fits your format, or asking an agency to produce a spot that won't clash with your format would cost you a buy. We know what the end result of that VERY short discussion would be. Oh, BTW, the number of local sales people is down considerably. In many cases, it's because corporate thinks that sales people should simply be "order takers", because the numbers should sell themselves. Well, maybe that works in NYC, but not in WNY.
Unfortunately, listeners are in the "also ran" category when it comes to decision making. They come after corporate management, local management, and sponsor considerations. You'd think that sponsors would be concerned about listeners, but these days they're more concerned about cost-per-point. The attitude is "The listeners will take what we give them." Clustering has created a far less competitive situation than once existed - in radio anyway.
Too many radio people stick their fingers in their ears and scream "LALALALALALALALA" when somebody mentions other music delivery systems. Or, they assume that radio is headed toward the dustbin of history, and simply want to extract as many dollars as possible while they're still there for the taking.
Personally, "Mr. Huge" doesn't bother me for some reason. I pretty much just ignore his ads. The ones that irk me and I've commented on before refer to cars from this year as "oh-thirteen" or last year's models as "oh-twelves". I'm reasonably sure it's an agency spot, not a "mom and pop" ad. I guess we all have our pet peeves, that's one reason this board is interesting to spend some time on.
Posts #23 & #27 are worth noting.
Particularly interesting today was data scientist Edward Tufte, who was featured on WBFO-NPR's Science Friday. (BTW, today's replacement host made have a greater appreciation for regular host Ira Flatow.) "Confirmation bias" was one of the items discussed as Tufte elaborated on "what we see and how we see it." Fascinating and compelling talk radio, far more interesting and less aggravating than the ongoing gun and political rabble heard on the AM band.
As to Bombastic Billy's net worth and holdings? That's a testament to his salesmanship and extensive use of media, particularly in that he reinforces TV with radio (albeit at substantially reduced rates.) Bully for him! It doesn't mean I have to like his commercials or his pitch. It simply means a lot of people buy what he's selling. Perhaps the observations of HL Mencken apply in this case. It's likely Billy doesn't care, but I know what I like, what "sells" me, what turns me off and where I spend my money.
Particularly interesting today was data scientist Edward Tufte, who was featured on WBFO-NPR's Science Friday. (BTW, today's replacement host made have a greater appreciation for regular host Ira Flatow.) "Confirmation bias" was one of the items discussed as Tufte elaborated on "what we see and how we see it." Fascinating and compelling talk radio, far more interesting and less aggravating than the ongoing gun and political rabble heard on the AM band.
As to Bombastic Billy's net worth and holdings? That's a testament to his salesmanship and extensive use of media, particularly in that he reinforces TV with radio (albeit at substantially reduced rates.) Bully for him! It doesn't mean I have to like his commercials or his pitch. It simply means a lot of people buy what he's selling. Perhaps the observations of HL Mencken apply in this case. It's likely Billy doesn't care, but I know what I like, what "sells" me, what turns me off and where I spend my money.
John C said:Personally, "Mr. Huge" doesn't bother me for some reason. I pretty much just ignore his ads. The ones that irk me and I've commented on before refer to cars from this year as "oh-thirteen" or last year's models as "oh-twelves". I'm reasonably sure it's an agency spot, not a "mom and pop" ad. I guess we all have our pet peeves, that's one reason this board is interesting to spend some time on.
"Oh-ten" and up are just wrong. Thankfully I've never been pressed by a auto client to do that.
JustPastBuffalo said:Posts #23 & #27 are worth noting.
Agreed JPB.
SirRoxalot said:Radiowrite, you talk as if there's still such a thing as quality control for advertising.
Quality control is only as good as the GM's spine...and even that may not be enough. In fact it usually isn't. And then it becomes the whole "pick your battles" thing.
The late great WGR alumnus Larry Anderson was my GM in Wheeling WV (and because he came from programming, was a great GM for which to work) when I worked at WWVA-AM/WOVK-FM. (1989-93)
Frank Osborn was the owner at the time, and he'd gotten into a mess in some other markets with some joint venture called Fairmont. It ended up Osborn had two cash cows in his otherwise crumbling empire...us (along with the Jamboree USA radio show and Jamboree In The Hills outdoor festival) and 93Q/Syracuse.
The pressure was on. At this time - June 1990 - a buyer approached our GSM with a $20,000 order for Gold Bond Powder.
The spots were two minutes each. Graphic descriptions of crotch rot and other skin maladies..."it was red and peely-like"...and how Gold Bond saved their lives. For TWO minutes.
GSM to Larry: "What's the policy on spots like these?"
Larry to GSM: "We play 'em!"
Even during my AM drive show. I always had to turn the monitors down when playing them...they made me want to puke.
But when your corporate parent has their thumb on your neck because their investment in some other market has gone south, you often take the money and run...and hope you haven't inflicted too much long-term damage on your brand.
Fortunately, today there are some programs out there designed to instruct stations how to create compelling spots, complete with examples and evidence of their impact.
Sounds good but I have to imagine the take rate is very low. Who even has copywriters anymore? My current cluster let theirs go in 1998.
Now they have "systems". It's kind of like "Mad-libs" for radio commercials.
N
Ninth caller
Guest
Note: I am aware that Entercom Buffalo still has a copywriter and a person who creates strategic ad campaigns. Meanwhile, TownSquare just finished rounding up direct clients to sit at a hotel to hear a gypsy from Rochester bilk these poor guys to buy remnant time. It's comical that it is called the Advantage Plan. Creating a good commercial is a definite bit player here. You'll soon hear dry cleaners, plumbers, and carpet cleaners on WYRK et al, spending their desperate dollars with no results. Churn, baby churn!
Ninth caller said:Note: I am aware that Entercom Buffalo still has a copywriter and a person who creates strategic ad campaigns. Meanwhile, TownSquare just finished rounding up direct clients to sit at a hotel to hear a gypsy from Rochester bilk these poor guys to buy remnant time. It's comical that it is called the Advantage Plan. Creating a good commercial is a definite bit player here. You'll soon hear dry cleaners, plumbers, and carpet cleaners on WYRK et al, spending their desperate dollars with no results. Churn, baby churn!
Kudos to Entercom Buffalo. As for Townsquare, if the Advantage Plan involves any form of vertical saturation, it may be $$ well spent.
- Status
- This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.