Biggest radio failures in NY

[TonySantiago]

I'm not an enemy of Dance son, nor am I "downing the music' by saying EDM is not mass appeal enough to support an entire 24/7 format and I doubted that it would have been top five regardless of where it was on the dial. No one said dance music is bad, no one said any other type of music is better, the thread is about "the biggest failures in NY radio" and someone else brought up Pulse before I did, it WAS; period for WHATEVER reason, it failed. Nor am I the first person on this board to say Tony the answer to everything is not "dance", ive been lurking here for a long time and know i'm not the first person who has called you out about that there's no reason for you to take offense 8) you have thrown that idea around more than you realize. that's fine we are simply not in agreement. However most importantly there is this:

"I've ran the coalition for close to 19 years".

No son, you've RUN the coalition for close to 19 years. Congratulations on your tenure.

SON????? SON??????

I could give two craps if you hate my guts. We've already made a determination that we will agree to disagree and I can live with that. BUT YOU WILL NOT DISRESPECT ME BY CALLING ME - SON! You chose your user name on R-I to protect who you are, and even though I know who this is I respect your privacy in that regard. Yeah, I don't apologize for my stance on dance music. And if people are tired of it that's fine, because I'm tired of the fact that, in a market like New York, we don't have such a station on the air. Let's put world markets on the side for a second...this is NEW YORK, a rhythmic market to begin with. Dance can't work in many markets, but it can work here.

As I've stated earlier, we can agree to disagree. But you will NOT disrespect me.

 

[FellOutBoy]

I'm not an enemy of Dance son, nor am I "downing the music' by saying EDM is not mass appeal enough to support an entire 24/7 format and I doubted that it would have been top five regardless of where it was on the dial. No one said dance music is bad, no one said any other type of music is better, the thread is about "the biggest failures in NY radio" and someone else brought up Pulse before I did, it WAS; period for WHATEVER reason, it failed. Nor am I the first person on this board to say Tony the answer to everything is not "dance", ive been lurking here for a long time and know i'm not the first person who has called you out about that there's no reason for you to take offense 8) you have thrown that idea around more than you realize. that's fine we are simply not in agreement. However most importantly there is this:

"I've ran the coalition for close to 19 years".

No son, you've RUN the coalition for close to 19 years. Congratulations on your tenure.

SON????? SON??????

I could give two craps if you hate my guts. We've already made a determination that we will agree to disagree and I can live with that. BUT YOU WILL NOT DISRESPECT ME BY CALLING ME - SON! You chose your user name on R-I to protect who you are, and even though I know who this is I respect your privacy in that regard. Yeah, I don't apologize for my stance on dance music. And if people are tired of it that's fine, because I'm tired of the fact that, in a market like New York, we don't have such a station on the air. Let's put world markets on the side for a second...this is NEW YORK, a rhythmic market to begin with. Dance can't work in many markets, but it can work here.

As I've stated earlier, we can agree to disagree. But you will NOT disrespect me.

Oh seriously Tony it aint that deep, the whole thing had become knit picky so i half jokingly corrected your grammar. I dont hate you or anybody else for that matter, i dont even know you I just know what you write on this board and i dont always agree. I said I dont think a format that is ALL EDM was mass appeal enough to work and somehow you think I hate dance, even though I said I like the genre, you dont know what I do or dont listen to but that's not even the point, the point is whether a pure EDM station would work in NY I say no, it certainly would not be top five. You're making it strangely personal. 90% of the people on R I use a pseudonym what's the difference/, dont be weird. settle down SON ;D j/k no disrespect intended it's a figure of speech nothing more.

 

[TonySantiago]

Oh seriously Tony it aint that deep, the whole thing had become knit picky so i half jokingly corrected your grammar. I dont hate you or anybody else for that matter, i dont even know you I just know what you write on this board and i dont always agree. I said I dont think a format that is ALL EDM was mass appeal enough to work and somehow you think I hate dance, even though I said I like the genre, you dont know what I do or dont listen to but that's not even the point, the point is whether a pure EDM station would work in NY I say no, it certainly would not be top five. You're making it strangely personal. 90% of the people on R I use a pseudonym what's the difference/, dont be weird. settle down SON ;D j/k no disrespect intended it's a figure of speech nothing more.

I've heard you before. A station below 100.1 and that's where I'll go because I RESPECT the reason why you (or anyone here) would use a pseudonym and won't call you out. And once again, this became twisted. Earlier in this thread I ADMITTED that a pure dance/EDM channel would not necessarily work here, in the sense that you would have to add the current electro pop aspect (Rihanna, Neyo, Chris Brown, Flo Rida, Pitbull, etc) in there. There still needs to be familiarity. I get that.

Ok, let me use a nearby example. Drive FX (94.1 & 95.7) in the Hudson Valley. Now, for a P1 fan, I think the station is great in its progressive and cutting edge approach. However if I became the PD there tomorrow, some of the music on the format would go away. There would be some more of the familiar elements in there (that stations such as K-104 and 96.1 Kiss are doing) and new imaging, but I would NEVER completely get rid of that edge. Call what I'm saying a "compromise". I wouldn't want to make the station TOO radical but at the same time it can't sound like a media "McDonalds" either. That is what I am talking about regarding what would work in New York City. Pulse 87 was very good with that on the FM. As much as he isn't crazy about me either, I give Joel Salkowitz credit.

Okay, let's move off the "you hate dance" thing. That is fine. And if you've read me carefully, I'm not saying PURE EDM. But yeah, EDM mixed in with the electro pop sound that is popular on 92.3 Now and Z-100.

 

[FellOutBoy]

Oh seriously Tony it aint that deep, the whole thing had become knit picky so i half jokingly corrected your grammar. I dont hate you or anybody else for that matter, i dont even know you I just know what you write on this board and i dont always agree. I said I dont think a format that is ALL EDM was mass appeal enough to work and somehow you think I hate dance, even though I said I like the genre, you dont know what I do or dont listen to but that's not even the point, the point is whether a pure EDM station would work in NY I say no, it certainly would not be top five. You're making it strangely personal. 90% of the people on R I use a pseudonym what's the difference/, dont be weird. settle down SON ;D j/k no disrespect intended it's a figure of speech nothing more.

I've heard you before. A station below 100.1 and that's where I'll go because I RESPECT the reason why you (or anyone here) would use a pseudonym and won't call you out. And once again, this became twisted. Earlier in this thread I ADMITTED that a pure dance/EDM channel would not necessarily work here, in the sense that you would have to add the current electro pop aspect (Rihanna, Neyo, Chris Brown, Flo Rida, Pitbull, etc) in there. There still needs to be familiarity. I get that.

Ok, let me use a nearby example. Drive FX (94.1 & 95.7) in the Hudson Valley. Now, for a P1 fan, I think the station is great in its progressive and cutting edge approach. However if I became the PD there tomorrow, some of the music on the format would go away. There would be some more of the familiar elements in there (that stations such as K-104 and 96.1 Kiss are doing) and new imaging, but I would NEVER completely get rid of that edge. Call what I'm saying a "compromise". I wouldn't want to make the station TOO radical but at the same time it can't sound like a media "McDonalds" either. That is what I am talking about regarding what would work in New York City. Pulse 87 was very good with that on the FM. As much as he isn't crazy about me either, I give Joel Salkowitz credit.

Okay, let's move off the "you hate dance" thing. That is fine. And if you've read me carefully, I'm not saying PURE EDM. But yeah, EDM mixed in with the electro pop sound that is popular on 92.3 Now and Z-100.

You are actually wrong about the frequency location but that's another story. Listen Salkowitz is a smart guy and I was excited about his involvement with Pulse but for whatever reason it did not work, youre right there were a lot of nuts and bolts basic business reasons that held it back first and foremost but for whatever reason it did not work and it ended up on this thread of NY's biggest radio failures. No disrespect meant Tony, you are a stern advacate of "dance' go for it and be well sir.

 

[Brooklyndon]

That hot talk format on 'New with Don and Mike and Ron and fez and Opie and Anthony was also really abysmal.

Free fm was garbage.

The second run of krock was crap.

I do kind of miss the new mix 102.7, it was nice to have a shameless disco station. I also miss wrks for the same reason, though do want to note that wbls has stepped in and added some good soulful r&b dance to their mix, a good thing, undoubtedly.

 

[badjef]

I haven't seen anyone mention 94.7 Family Radio WFME, or 99.5 WBAI, those have been a fail and waste for years.
I'm sure most people skip them, and forgets they're even on the dial...Hence why they weren't mentioned,
most people don't care about them.

HD Radio in NY has more of any audience I'm sure...

Until Harold Camping decides to sell off 94.7 and Pacifica gets out of the radio business with 99.5, those stations will NEVER change. Ratings don't matter for them, so as long as they receive donations. Though, keep "Liquid Sound Lounge"

With the Emmis/Disney deal and translator agreements being done around the Country, don't be surprised to see some type of leasing deal to help Family out of debt.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[neo911]

Just a simple question for "FellOut":

Do you consider Kiss FM 98.7 to have been a failure as well?

I ask because Kiss FM is no longer on the air, despite the fact that it was doing quite well in the ratings. It "failed" because the parent company, Emmis, was in a difficult economic positions and had to unload properties, just as it also did with 101.9. It had nothing to do with the station's performance.

Well, what's the analogy? The analogy here is that Pulse 87, with all of the limitations it had against it (most of which have been brought up by Tony Santiago and by David Eduardo) such as not covering much of the market, being in no-mans land on the dial, etc., etc., etc., *still* worked its way up to a cume of one million.

HOWEVER...despite such success for a pea-shooter, unknown signal with little coverage, it was the financial failings of the parent company, Mega Media, which resulted in the station going under. Mega Media's ventures branched out beyond radio, so to call Pulse a failure because the parent company went under is ludicrous. Especially when, if anything, Pulse was probably keeping that ship going for as long as it managed to stay afloat.

 

[d21ofnj]

WHOA! reality check in!@ D21ofNJ, Let's start with I didnt bash EDM I stated that i like the genre musically but that does not make it a viable format.

Guilty conscious much? I understand your point is basing it off of how the radio system works. I was calling out the ones who say it doesn't work but throw a stereotype reply like "it won't work because it's music for clubs only, or to hook up your cars with strobes and LED lights"

 

[TonySantiago]

so to call Pulse a failure because the parent company went under is ludicrous.

I think you meant to say music ;D

 

[TonySantiago]

WHOA! reality check in!@ D21ofNJ, Let's start with I didnt bash EDM I stated that i like the genre musically but that does not make it a viable format.

Guilty conscious much? I understand your point is basing it off of how the radio system works. I was calling out the ones who say it doesn't work but throw a stereotype reply like "it won't work because it's music for clubs only, or to hook up your cars with strobes and LED lights"

We can leave this alone . I think based on the extreme feelings on both sides of this, we've all moved on. We're not going to agree and that's fine. It's just going to take the launch of a station and the numbers (not just the first book the station appears but a couple of them) to prove the theory.

 

[FellOutBoy]

Just a simple question for "FellOut":

Do you consider Kiss FM 98.7 to have been a failure as well?

I ask because Kiss FM is no longer on the air, despite the fact that it was doing quite well in the ratings. It "failed" because the parent company, Emmis, was in a difficult economic positions and had to unload properties, just as it also did with 101.9. It had nothing to do with the station's performance.

Well, what's the analogy? The analogy here is that Pulse 87, with all of the limitations it had against it (most of which have been brought up by Tony Santiago and by David Eduardo) such as not covering much of the market, being in no-mans land on the dial, etc., etc., etc., *still* worked its way up to a cume of one million.

HOWEVER...despite such success for a pea-shooter, unknown signal with little coverage, it was the financial failings of the parent company, Mega Media, which resulted in the station going under. Mega Media's ventures branched out beyond radio, so to call Pulse a failure because the parent company went under is ludicrous. Especially when, if anything, Pulse was probably keeping that ship going for as long as it managed to stay afloat.

Neo Im not sure I understand the comparison of the two stations. Kiss was a giant in the 80's who's performance began to wane as time went on and while their recent numbers were nothing like the were in the old days you rightly point out the sale had to do with Emmis being strapped for cash more than anything else. I dont think you could even compare Kiss with it's decades of broadcast to Pulse which lasted less than two years was it?.

 

[neo911]

Just a simple question for "FellOut":

Do you consider Kiss FM 98.7 to have been a failure as well?

I ask because Kiss FM is no longer on the air, despite the fact that it was doing quite well in the ratings. It "failed" because the parent company, Emmis, was in a difficult economic positions and had to unload properties, just as it also did with 101.9. It had nothing to do with the station's performance.

Well, what's the analogy? The analogy here is that Pulse 87, with all of the limitations it had against it (most of which have been brought up by Tony Santiago and by David Eduardo) such as not covering much of the market, being in no-mans land on the dial, etc., etc., etc., *still* worked its way up to a cume of one million.

HOWEVER...despite such success for a pea-shooter, unknown signal with little coverage, it was the financial failings of the parent company, Mega Media, which resulted in the station going under. Mega Media's ventures branched out beyond radio, so to call Pulse a failure because the parent company went under is ludicrous. Especially when, if anything, Pulse was probably keeping that ship going for as long as it managed to stay afloat.

Neo Im not sure I understand the comparison of the two stations. Kiss was a giant in the 80's who's performance began to wane as time went on and while their recent numbers were nothing like the were in the old days you rightly point out the sale had to do with Emmis being strapped for cash more than anything else. I dont think you could even compare Kiss with it's decades of broadcast to Pulse which lasted less than two years was it?.

If you chose to read what I wrote, you would understand the comparison. Let me break it down nice and simply for you to understand:

Kiss FM: successful station, taken off the air not due to its poor performance, but due to the poor financial state of its parent company, Emmis.

Pulse: successful station (cume of 1 million on the worst signal by far in NYC, and below the FM band), taken off the air not due to its poor performance, but due to the poor financial state of its parent company, Mega Media.

That clear enough for you?

 

[reelyreal]

Failure is so subjective. You could call Kiss FM a failure because it's no longer around... it failed.

If a station isn't on the air anymore, can you call it a success? It's all relative. One time, it was successful. Now, it's not.

The comparison is silly, and so is the bickering.

 

[FellOutBoy]

Just a simple question for "FellOut":

Do you consider Kiss FM 98.7 to have been a failure as well?

I ask because Kiss FM is no longer on the air, despite the fact that it was doing quite well in the ratings. It "failed" because the parent company, Emmis, was in a difficult economic positions and had to unload properties, just as it also did with 101.9. It had nothing to do with the station's performance.

Well, what's the analogy? The analogy here is that Pulse 87, with all of the limitations it had against it (most of which have been brought up by Tony Santiago and by David Eduardo) such as not covering much of the market, being in no-mans land on the dial, etc., etc., etc., *still* worked its way up to a cume of one million.

HOWEVER...despite such success for a pea-shooter, unknown signal with little coverage, it was the financial failings of the parent company, Mega Media, which resulted in the station going under. Mega Media's ventures branched out beyond radio, so to call Pulse a failure because the parent company went under is ludicrous. Especially when, if anything, Pulse was probably keeping that ship going for as long as it managed to stay afloat.

Neo Im not sure I understand the comparison of the two stations. Kiss was a giant in the 80's who's performance began to wane as time went on and while their recent numbers were nothing like the were in the old days you rightly point out the sale had to do with Emmis being strapped for cash more than anything else. I dont think you could even compare Kiss with it's decades of broadcast to Pulse which lasted less than two years was it?.

If you chose to read what I wrote, you would understand the comparison. Let me break it down nice and simply for you to understand:

Kiss FM: successful station, taken off the air not due to its poor performance, but due to the poor financial state of its parent company, Emmis.

Pulse: successful station (cume of 1 million on the worst signal by far in NYC, and below the FM band), taken off the air not due to its poor performance, but due to the poor financial state of its parent company, Mega Media.

That clear enough for you?

No need to be snippy, your basic premise was flawed. Comparing a station like wrks with it's rich heritage and decades of influence with Pulse which is at best a flash in the pan (because it barely lasted two years on air) in any way is illogical and I agree with ReelyReal, bickering is a waste and changes nothing.

 

[neo911]

There is nothing flawed about it. I am talking about two different stations that went off the air not due to lack of success in the ratings, but due to problems with the parent company. What is so difficult to understand about that?