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Billie Eilish on Alt-Rock Stations
- Thread starter KMan
- Start date
I don't feel that her music is a very good fit for the format. With that being said, her music is extremely popular with younger people today, so I can understand why her songs are receiving airplay. Additionally, electronic music is becoming more and more popular, and Billie Eilish would probably be considered an electronic artist.
"Bury a friend" was recently number 1 on the alt charts so she is being played everywhere.
Alternative was originally an 18-34 format but now there’s a lot of music played that is over 20-25 years old if not older which would have been unheard of back in the 90s. Playing Billie Eilish would seem relevant to the younger demo but alongside music from another generation with a style that has not seen much popularity throughout this decade now reaching its end would in fact seem contrasting. So who exactly is this format supposed to be aimed at now?
I guess, but it was her only song to chart there. KYSR is plating that one in heavy.
KROQ is playing her current single Bad Guy in heavy, which isn't charting alt but is in the rock chart.
I really think the main reason they play her is she grew up and still lives in LA.
The Alternative format isn't an exclusively Rock format. It's roots were in Grunge, but that was over 25 years ago. Look at the Mediabase chart today, there are many diverse artists in there, many of whom cross over into other formats...
Rank Spins
lw TW Artist Title
2 1 LUMINEERS Gloria
1 2 SHAED Trampoline
3 3 CATFISH AND THE BOTTLEMEN Longshot
4 4 TREE, OLIVER Hurt
7 5 AJR 100 Bad Days
9 6 HEAD AND THE HEART Missed Connection
10 7 OF MONSTERS AND MEN Alligator
5 8 EILISH, BILLIE Bury A Friend
6 9 BLACK KEYS Lo/Hi
8 10 PANIC! AT THE DISCO High Hopes
11 11 HALF•ALIVE Still Feel.
13 12 MUMFORD & SONS Beloved
16 13 BLINK-182 Blame It On My Youth
14 14 I DON'T KNOW HOW BUT THEY... Choke
15 15 LOVELYTHEBAND Maybe, I'm Afraid
12 16 CAGE THE ELEPHANT Ready To Let Go
17 17 MAESON, MATT Cringe
20 18 FIKE, DOMINIC 3 Nights
23 19 EILISH, BILLIE bad guy
18 20 PANIC! AT THE DISCO Hey Look Ma, I Made It
19 21 BASTILLE Joy
25 22 JUDAH & THE LION Why Did You Run?
21 23 TWENTY ONE PILOTS Chlorine
27 24 THE 1975 It's Not Living (If It's...)
30 25 DEL REY, LANA Doin' Time
24 26 SMITH & THELL Forgive Me Friend
28 27 SILVERSUN PICKUPS It Doesn't Matter Why
22 28 THE REVIVALISTS Change
26 29 INTERRUPTERS Gave You Everything
29 30 BECK Saw Lightning
34 31 ILLENIUM Good Things Fall...f/J.Bellion
31 32 MYERS, MEG Running Up That Hill
33 33 DREAMERS Die Happy
35 34 VAMPIRE WEEKEND This Life
52 35 PHANTOGRAM Into Happiness
32 36 IMAGINE DRAGONS Bad Liar
37 37 MISSIO I See You
38 38 HEMBREE Culture
39 39 RACONTEURS Help Me Strang
40 40 TWIN XL Good
43 41 BADFLOWER Promise Me
46 42 THE STRUMBELLAS I'll Wait
36 43 X AMBASSADORS Boom
44 44 311 Good Feeling
42 45 YOUNG THE GIANT Heat Of The Summer
41 46 BOB MOSES Nothing But You
49 47 MALLRAT Groceries
47 48 COURTNEY, BARNS You And I
50 49 NEW POLITICS Comeback Kid
48 50 SHINEDOWN Monsters
I see this thread of more or less a continuation of the the whole stupid notation that alt stations should play Hard Rock music, tailor-made for a young, male audience. I guess that writes off Depeche Mode as an alternative artist then, since their musical appeal goes beyond that of the typical Butt Rock fanboy. Panic at the Disco shouldn't be played on alternative, they dared to make a well-produced, catchy, synthpop number that just happened to cross over to other formats. The band members also didn't dare to go on several radio shows paying lip-service to the Kurt Cobain estate, while playing a crummy, generic take on Nirvana's music.
Guess what, in 2001, Rock music dominated the alt-rock format. The third-wave ska acts were a dying breed by that point, as No Doubt was the sole torch carrier for said genre. The few melodic rock acts from the previous decade were also finally exiting the alt format for good, two examples being Dave Matthews Band and Better than Ezra. Basically all the sissy girl music, melody, synths, dance-beats, sensibility, jangle-pop and good taste was almost obliterated from alt rock stations. This is what took its place. Here is a fictional sample hour for a fictional alt station circa 2001.
Tri-Cities New RAWK Alternative, KKBA 103-5 (Liners that scream at you, just like an Active Rock station)
10:56 am Limp Bizkit- Break Stuff
TOTH ID, then an artist promo featuring the guy from Puddle of Mudd
11:00 am Puddle of Mudd, Control (Smack my!)
Promo for a Moby Concert at the Ti-Cities Arena
11:05 am, Moby ft. Gwen Stefani, Southside
DJ trash talks Courtney Love between songs
11:09 am, Nirvana, Heart-shaped Box
Commercial Break
Liners- Back to the music at the Tri-Cities High-Octane, new RAWK Alternative, 103-5 KKBA
11:18am ROTM, Renegades of Funk
DJ talking up a sold-out RHCP show at a local arena
11:22am, RHCP, Give it Away
11:26am, DMB, The Space Between
11:30am, Weezer, Buddy Holly
Celebrity Liner, Scott Stapp talks about what inspires him to sing
11:33am Creed, With Arms Wide Open
11:41am 3 Doors Down, Loser
11:45am Green Day, Basket Case
11:49am Lifehouse, Hanging by a Moment
KROQ started in 1978, during the new wave and punk rock era. KROQ was already an alt-rocker for 13 years by the the time Nirvana came out with Nevermind. KROQ between 1978 through 1991 played a wide-variety of music, including upbeat, dance-pop. Some of the music eventually did cross-over to Top 40 KIIS, such as Duran Duran, Culture Club and Billy Idol. I guess cultural revisionism has caused many to think of alternative as a grunge-based, 90's format. I guess it doesn't help that the new Alternative stations that popped up after 1993, particularly in more conservative markets, favored a harder sound that de-emphasized much of the non-grunge, British post-punk music that still charted on the Modern Rock charts. I will however note that the consequences of making alternative a poor-man's active rock format didn't pan out, as even legendary stations such as WHFS and WNNX eventually flipped formats as the hard-rock format alienated a good deal of loyal listeners. Say what you want about pop crossovers, but one thing that crossover artists do is build appeal for said format. KROQ in the 80's is a good example, as saying they were the first station to play Duran Duran would do wonders for publicity, which equals increased billing. While the early-2000's alt format did play some artists that had cross-over appeal, most of those artists had songs that didn't age well as gold-titles, and were few and far in-between. For instance, Nickleback did really well on Top 40 and Hot AC formats in the 2000's, not so much since. On top of that, most of the nu-metal artists were lucky to have one or two ballads that would cross-over to the pop market. Duran Duran, on the other hand, hasn't aged at all musically, with many of their songs still getting ample airplay on AC and classic hits formats.
Guess what, in 2001, Rock music dominated the alt-rock format. The third-wave ska acts were a dying breed by that point, as No Doubt was the sole torch carrier for said genre. The few melodic rock acts from the previous decade were also finally exiting the alt format for good, two examples being Dave Matthews Band and Better than Ezra. Basically all the sissy girl music, melody, synths, dance-beats, sensibility, jangle-pop and good taste was almost obliterated from alt rock stations. This is what took its place. Here is a fictional sample hour for a fictional alt station circa 2001.
Tri-Cities New RAWK Alternative, KKBA 103-5 (Liners that scream at you, just like an Active Rock station)
10:56 am Limp Bizkit- Break Stuff
TOTH ID, then an artist promo featuring the guy from Puddle of Mudd
11:00 am Puddle of Mudd, Control (Smack my!)
Promo for a Moby Concert at the Ti-Cities Arena
11:05 am, Moby ft. Gwen Stefani, Southside
DJ trash talks Courtney Love between songs
11:09 am, Nirvana, Heart-shaped Box
Commercial Break
Liners- Back to the music at the Tri-Cities High-Octane, new RAWK Alternative, 103-5 KKBA
11:18am ROTM, Renegades of Funk
DJ talking up a sold-out RHCP show at a local arena
11:22am, RHCP, Give it Away
11:26am, DMB, The Space Between
11:30am, Weezer, Buddy Holly
Celebrity Liner, Scott Stapp talks about what inspires him to sing
11:33am Creed, With Arms Wide Open
11:41am 3 Doors Down, Loser
11:45am Green Day, Basket Case
11:49am Lifehouse, Hanging by a Moment
KROQ started in 1978, during the new wave and punk rock era. KROQ was already an alt-rocker for 13 years by the the time Nirvana came out with Nevermind. KROQ between 1978 through 1991 played a wide-variety of music, including upbeat, dance-pop. Some of the music eventually did cross-over to Top 40 KIIS, such as Duran Duran, Culture Club and Billy Idol. I guess cultural revisionism has caused many to think of alternative as a grunge-based, 90's format. I guess it doesn't help that the new Alternative stations that popped up after 1993, particularly in more conservative markets, favored a harder sound that de-emphasized much of the non-grunge, British post-punk music that still charted on the Modern Rock charts. I will however note that the consequences of making alternative a poor-man's active rock format didn't pan out, as even legendary stations such as WHFS and WNNX eventually flipped formats as the hard-rock format alienated a good deal of loyal listeners. Say what you want about pop crossovers, but one thing that crossover artists do is build appeal for said format. KROQ in the 80's is a good example, as saying they were the first station to play Duran Duran would do wonders for publicity, which equals increased billing. While the early-2000's alt format did play some artists that had cross-over appeal, most of those artists had songs that didn't age well as gold-titles, and were few and far in-between. For instance, Nickleback did really well on Top 40 and Hot AC formats in the 2000's, not so much since. On top of that, most of the nu-metal artists were lucky to have one or two ballads that would cross-over to the pop market. Duran Duran, on the other hand, hasn't aged at all musically, with many of their songs still getting ample airplay on AC and classic hits formats.
Jeez, you're bitter, aren't you?
I wouldn't mind if new bands likeThe Rival Sons and classic alt acts like Bush and Sum 41 could still cross over onto alt instead of being trapped on active, but I've always preferred my alt mixes to have some hot sauce added.
Billie has a unique sound that classifies her as "alt" in the loose sense, the same way The Prodigy and Fatboy Slim had some crossover success on alt in the late 90's despite not sounding remotely like rock music. History basically repeating itself, although Billie doesn't have a hair of Big Beat influence.
She belongs, for now, but her type of sound can easily go mainstream so she could wind up exiting quickly. We won't know until her next album drops.
As for Panic, I suspect they may be also on the way out. "Hey, Look Ma, I Made It" is a top 40 hit as well but it's hovering around 20th place on alt and has been for a while. Bastille's equally poppy "Joy" has also stalled out. We've also had unexpected flops by WALK THE MOON, Fitz & The Tantrums, and X Ambassadors in a short timeframe.
For all of alt's pop flirtations the pendulum eventually swings back, it just seems to be taking longer this time.
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I guess I wouldn't mind if the Alt format did try playing a different set of artists, as well as so more established artists that havn't been played in years. My point was having the format lean hard in any direction is not so good in the long run, may it be alternatives one-hit wonder phase of the mid-to-late 90's, or its nu-metal phase in the early 2000's. Even heritage alt rockers, such as KROQ, back in the late 80's, had to play hard in the new artists discovery territory after synth-pop music declined in popularity around 1986.
Yeah, it does seem weird that Bush and Sum 41's new music is trapped on active, as gold titles by both artists still gamer airplay on the alt format.
I would also like to add however that charting on Alt is not an overall indicator on how much airplay a song may get, especially when the song becomes a recurrent. For instance, Paramore's "Ain't it Fun" never even charted on alt. Yet that didn't stop some alt-rockers to pound that song to death back in 2014 as a recurrent, and ever since. Fountain of Wayne's "Stacy's Mom", "Give em hell" by the All American Rejects and several other big re-currents on the format barely charted, or in some cases never even hit the charts. Going back even further, Grunge initially only did OK on Alt, with Soundgarden not hitting the chart until Spoonman in early '94. Much of the grunge eras biggest hits were on the Mainstream Rock charts. Nirvana was one of the few grunge artists that did well on alternative from the beginning, that may however have to do with the bands hardcore-punk influences, as opposed to over grunge bands that veer more towards 70's rock, such as Pearl Jam.
As far as pop crossover acts exiting the format, that is a tricky one. One example is Third Eye Blind. 3EB released 2 big albums, with the band exiting the format after "Never let you go" in early 2000, most likely due to the bands extensive airplay on Top 40 and Adult Top 40 formats. Yet, their older singles reentered the alt format some 10 years later, with some alt stations even playing new music by them. Sometimes an artist can and will reemerge on the format once other formats lose interest in a particular artists music.
My biggest pet peeve with Alternative currently is that, despite indie-pop doing well on the format, that the format still doesn't have the gender balance it once had prior to the mid-1990's. For instance, the local Alt station were I live played a band I love called Chvrches at one of their concerts, despite the band only getting very light airplay on said station. The fact of the matter is 1990's and 2000's rock gold is whats limiting the exposure of new and upcoming artists, especially if the artists are female. Yes, I would prefer an Alternative format that mixes post-punk, synthpop, punk, EDM and power pop over one that emphasizes hard rock exclusively. However, I do still like some hard rock and would like to see new hard rock artists, as well as veterans with new singles, getting airplay on alternative.
Yeah, it does seem weird that Bush and Sum 41's new music is trapped on active, as gold titles by both artists still gamer airplay on the alt format.
I would also like to add however that charting on Alt is not an overall indicator on how much airplay a song may get, especially when the song becomes a recurrent. For instance, Paramore's "Ain't it Fun" never even charted on alt. Yet that didn't stop some alt-rockers to pound that song to death back in 2014 as a recurrent, and ever since. Fountain of Wayne's "Stacy's Mom", "Give em hell" by the All American Rejects and several other big re-currents on the format barely charted, or in some cases never even hit the charts. Going back even further, Grunge initially only did OK on Alt, with Soundgarden not hitting the chart until Spoonman in early '94. Much of the grunge eras biggest hits were on the Mainstream Rock charts. Nirvana was one of the few grunge artists that did well on alternative from the beginning, that may however have to do with the bands hardcore-punk influences, as opposed to over grunge bands that veer more towards 70's rock, such as Pearl Jam.
As far as pop crossover acts exiting the format, that is a tricky one. One example is Third Eye Blind. 3EB released 2 big albums, with the band exiting the format after "Never let you go" in early 2000, most likely due to the bands extensive airplay on Top 40 and Adult Top 40 formats. Yet, their older singles reentered the alt format some 10 years later, with some alt stations even playing new music by them. Sometimes an artist can and will reemerge on the format once other formats lose interest in a particular artists music.
My biggest pet peeve with Alternative currently is that, despite indie-pop doing well on the format, that the format still doesn't have the gender balance it once had prior to the mid-1990's. For instance, the local Alt station were I live played a band I love called Chvrches at one of their concerts, despite the band only getting very light airplay on said station. The fact of the matter is 1990's and 2000's rock gold is whats limiting the exposure of new and upcoming artists, especially if the artists are female. Yes, I would prefer an Alternative format that mixes post-punk, synthpop, punk, EDM and power pop over one that emphasizes hard rock exclusively. However, I do still like some hard rock and would like to see new hard rock artists, as well as veterans with new singles, getting airplay on alternative.
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My view is a bit different. Getting radio airplay is a competition. It's not a charity. If you want to get played next to the big stars, you need to earn that spot. Part of that is making undeniable music, and part of that is having the willingness to do the hard work that all the big stars did 20-30 years ago. Plus someone in the orbit has to come up with marketing ideas, because the band isn't going to do that.
Some people talk about how it takes a village to raise a child, and it takes a village to make an artist. Used to be, you had a record label you could depend on to help. That's probably not going to happen now. But there's someone in the orbit, maybe the manager, maybe the agent, maybe a writer who's willing to get behind a band. Sometimes that's all it takes. But it has to start somewhere. Radio isn't where it starts.
One of my favorite years for the format was 2011 and the first half of 2012. We had grinding rockers from Chevelle ("Face to the Floor), Seether ("Country Song", "Tonight"), Avenged Sevenfold ("Welcome to the Family" and ballad "So Far Away") and Alter Bridge ("Isolation") make noise. Metal bands Volbeat, Halestrom, and even Mastodon snuck into airplay. Veteran rock bands like Bush, Foo Fighters, Cake, and Switchfoot returned with excellent singles (and in most case albums). Punk had a surge with Rise Against, Bayside, A Day To Remember, and others getting spins. Indie rock from The Black Keys, Cage the Elephant, The Joy Formidable, and Young the Giant did well. Offbeat left-of-center artists like Foster The People ("Pumped Up Kicks") The Naked and the Famous ("Youngblood") and Gotye ("Somebody I Used To Know") added quirky freshness. It was great.
The problem is that the soft quirky stuff kept crossing over to pop so alt programmers started shunting anything with serious amps off their playlists outside of the aging 90's gold tracks starting in around maybe June or July of 2012. I feel this is a detriment to the format as a whole and has made the format feel like a glorified pop format for much of the 2010's, a dumping ground for CHR/Hot AC when they find pop songs too weird to give airplay to. Billie Eilish, to get back on topic, is the natural conclusion of this pop fixation, at least in my opinion.
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I largely agree with your opinion about 2011-2012 being the best years for alternative. However, I remember cringing when “Face to the Floor” or a Three Days Grace track bumped into a Deathcab or Mumford song. I’ll add to your assessment that Alternative was also grooming artists like Kings of Leon, Cage the Elephant and Black Keys into core artists at this time.Alternative, for me, was at a real high point then. I’d listen to the format more if they went back to that model instead of the poppy sound it’s ‘evolved’ into.
Update on Billie Eilish:
Mediabase has her less than a hundred spins behind The Head and the Heart for the #1. I can't imagine she's far behind on the Billboard panel either. 6 of the top 10 songs on alt are pop songs, only four are rockers (I admit I am being kind to Lana Del Rey's rendition of "Doin' Time" by calling it a rock song, it helps that it's actually pretty good). Half the top 10 is older than twenty weeks (which means they're eligible for recurrency once they fall out). Bastille's "Joy" looks like it'll back into the 10th position due to "still feel." going into freefall, but this puts 10th place approximately 400 spins behind 9th and 300 spins ahead of 12th. Nobody is leaving the top 9 anytime soon unless they suffer complete collapses, and 10th place may belong to Bastille for the foreseeable future unless its time has come to falter.
The alternative chart is sick. Wonder what the cure will be.
Mediabase has her less than a hundred spins behind The Head and the Heart for the #1. I can't imagine she's far behind on the Billboard panel either. 6 of the top 10 songs on alt are pop songs, only four are rockers (I admit I am being kind to Lana Del Rey's rendition of "Doin' Time" by calling it a rock song, it helps that it's actually pretty good). Half the top 10 is older than twenty weeks (which means they're eligible for recurrency once they fall out). Bastille's "Joy" looks like it'll back into the 10th position due to "still feel." going into freefall, but this puts 10th place approximately 400 spins behind 9th and 300 spins ahead of 12th. Nobody is leaving the top 9 anytime soon unless they suffer complete collapses, and 10th place may belong to Bastille for the foreseeable future unless its time has come to falter.
The alternative chart is sick. Wonder what the cure will be.
What do you mean? That you don't like the results of the chart?
My view is when a chart becomes stagnant, the cure is someone releasing a great song.
What I mean by "sick" is that it has become stagnant, too many of the top songs are eligible for recurrency, and they're so far ahead of the songs in the teens in spin count that it could be months before they fall out. I don't want to see a top 10 full of songs trying to break Broken's 75-week record on Billboard.
I almost think active/mainstream rock has it better off at this point.
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Good songs are good songs. My view is it's better to hold on to good songs that have been on the chart a while than to play something that sucks just because its newer.
What you're talking about is a record company problem, not a radio problem. The alternative side of the music business is stagnant because there's more money in other genres. Unfortunately the ratings of alternative radio stations are suffering as a result. At some point, you'll see a lot of these stations flip formats to a genre that's more dynamic.
Part of the reason why we have so many alt stations is because the format embraced indie pop which has crossed over aplenty this decade, and pop has been king. If indie pop gets long in the tooth (as all trends do) we could be seeing flips like you said, especially if the next big thing is something with more of a rock sound. Many alt stations are in markets that aren't rock friendly and they'd flip before long.
Part of me wonders if alt will eventually split into a pop friendly "alternative" format and a more aggressive "modern rock" format at the rate things are going, or if the indie rock on alt will just completely migrate to AAA. It's probably unlikely in both cases but eh.
BTW, on the original topic, Billie just passed The Head and the Heart for the Mediabase #1. May have been too late for the Billboard tho. The #2 song on the Hot 100 is now a #1 alt hit, and unlike "Bury A Friend" (which hit #1 too but didn't stay there for long) I think "bad guy" could be on top for the remainder of the summer. "Alligator" and "Hey Look Ma, I Made It" are the next two contenders for #1 and they're about 500 spins behind.
Whatever the "next big thing" is, it will have to come from the artists, because the record labels are clueless.
I completely agree with you there.
Anyway, "bad guy" is the poppiest song to top the alternative chart I'm pretty sure. Even "Too Close" had some rock elements mixed into its EDM base. It's going to be incredibly interesting to see what happens to alternative in the long run, especially if "bad guy" gets to stick around at the top for a while. "Pumped Up Kicks" being #1 for a number of weeks completely up-ended the alternative chart, will "bad guy" change things even more... or differently? Or not at all?
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