It's official, The Bills are leaving Cumulus. Will then end up back on WBEN or will Townsquare snag them? And how did know one else not know this was happening on these boards? No more breaking news here
-
Get involved.
We want your input!
Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.
After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.
After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/
Thanks in advance and have fun!
RadioDiscussions Administrators
Bills Leaving Cumulus...who will get them?
- Thread starter radioguywhoknowz
- Start date
In my haste I wrote fast. So does anyone know who will be the new voice of the Bills? What are they saying at Entercom?
Word is the Bills are going to WDCX. The team hasn't made the playoffs in twelve years, so they're taking their games to a higher power.
$50 million in synergies. Bet Cumulus Corporate made this call, if in fact the rumor is true. Oh, but why wouldn't it be? This is a message board! [/sarcasm] Watch, next year the Bills will make the playoffs after all those years of sucking on 97 Rock and the Edge.
The Bills might find that it's a buyer's market. The rights fees are said to be near $2 million a year. Seems a bit high to me, but I've heard this number tossed around by so many AE's it must be in the ball park. Maybe the Bills take the games "inside" and buy time from a station.
Consider the challenges. It's a lot of money to charge against a cluster's bottom line. Is Jeff Silver at Townsquare going to sign the Bills at that price? Not likely. WYRK, WBLK, WJYE and WBUF do quite well without the added expense and headaches associated with the team. Pass.
My money's on Entercom, although fifteen years of WGR Bills bashing has left a sour taste in the Bills' mouth. The Bills are known to want their games on FM. Seems that's an NFL preference. Entercom's Kiss and Star are targeted to women. But WBEN 930 and 107.7 might be an acceptable combo, especially if Greed & Heff promise to put a muzzle on the WGR staff. Bills PBP man John Murphy has history with WBEN. The Bills were on WBEN for years during the Algonquin years. Entercom has a Rochester cluster. I'd say Entercom will make an announcement within 30 days. They'll promote it as "another great Buffalo Bills comeback." The fun really begins when the WGR talk show hosts turn into cheerleaders and gag on their own fluff.
$50 million in synergies. Bet Cumulus Corporate made this call, if in fact the rumor is true. Oh, but why wouldn't it be? This is a message board! [/sarcasm] Watch, next year the Bills will make the playoffs after all those years of sucking on 97 Rock and the Edge.
The Bills might find that it's a buyer's market. The rights fees are said to be near $2 million a year. Seems a bit high to me, but I've heard this number tossed around by so many AE's it must be in the ball park. Maybe the Bills take the games "inside" and buy time from a station.
Consider the challenges. It's a lot of money to charge against a cluster's bottom line. Is Jeff Silver at Townsquare going to sign the Bills at that price? Not likely. WYRK, WBLK, WJYE and WBUF do quite well without the added expense and headaches associated with the team. Pass.
My money's on Entercom, although fifteen years of WGR Bills bashing has left a sour taste in the Bills' mouth. The Bills are known to want their games on FM. Seems that's an NFL preference. Entercom's Kiss and Star are targeted to women. But WBEN 930 and 107.7 might be an acceptable combo, especially if Greed & Heff promise to put a muzzle on the WGR staff. Bills PBP man John Murphy has history with WBEN. The Bills were on WBEN for years during the Algonquin years. Entercom has a Rochester cluster. I'd say Entercom will make an announcement within 30 days. They'll promote it as "another great Buffalo Bills comeback." The fun really begins when the WGR talk show hosts turn into cheerleaders and gag on their own fluff.
Last I heard, the Bills signed a multi-year agreement with Citadel last year. Are there escape clauses on both side? Indubitably. Would either side exercise that clause before the season's over? Not likely. Will Cumulus either try to renegotiate, or exercise their escape claus? Quite possibly. The Bills have not reached the playoffs in forever, and generally playoff money is the difference between a good deal and a bad deal for the radio station.
The Cumulus takeover presents a good reason for speculation. They're all about cutting costs, even if it means a decrease in revenue as well. It's hard to tell if the Bills were revenue-neutral. They certainly haven't been a money-maker in a while. Whether their presence on the air meant enough of a bonus for 97-Rock and/or The Edge is debatable.
I don't see Townsquare getting into the bidding. Where do you put them, and where's the upside? WYRK's already a runaway #1. WBUF? Only if they're planning to put some live bodies on to exploit the connection. WBLK? Not likely, and again, where's the upside? WJYE? Completely out of their target audience.
Entercom would be the only other option, and WGR would be the likely home. Why wouldn't you put the Bills on a SPORTS station? The Bills would insist on a good-coverage FM, which means either Kiss or Star. Neither one has an audience that the Bills covet, and the Bills won't exactly boost their target audience. If I had to pick, I'd say that Star would be the likely candidate, and they might throw in WLKK as a bonus. So, the game would be on three stations - one AM and two FMs. There's a possibility of a conflict with a Sabres broadcast, but Entercom's got WKBW in reserve if that happens.
There are lots of possibilities, but I don't believe that anything's been decided. One thing won't change. The Bills broadcast team. The Bills hire them, and they're the best thing that the team's got going for them.
The Cumulus takeover presents a good reason for speculation. They're all about cutting costs, even if it means a decrease in revenue as well. It's hard to tell if the Bills were revenue-neutral. They certainly haven't been a money-maker in a while. Whether their presence on the air meant enough of a bonus for 97-Rock and/or The Edge is debatable.
I don't see Townsquare getting into the bidding. Where do you put them, and where's the upside? WYRK's already a runaway #1. WBUF? Only if they're planning to put some live bodies on to exploit the connection. WBLK? Not likely, and again, where's the upside? WJYE? Completely out of their target audience.
Entercom would be the only other option, and WGR would be the likely home. Why wouldn't you put the Bills on a SPORTS station? The Bills would insist on a good-coverage FM, which means either Kiss or Star. Neither one has an audience that the Bills covet, and the Bills won't exactly boost their target audience. If I had to pick, I'd say that Star would be the likely candidate, and they might throw in WLKK as a bonus. So, the game would be on three stations - one AM and two FMs. There's a possibility of a conflict with a Sabres broadcast, but Entercom's got WKBW in reserve if that happens.
There are lots of possibilities, but I don't believe that anything's been decided. One thing won't change. The Bills broadcast team. The Bills hire them, and they're the best thing that the team's got going for them.
SirRoxalot said:
Why would anyone INSIST on an FM for the Bills in Buffalo? The Sabre's ratings prove that WGR has enough of a presence in the market to gather huge audience for a sports team. In this case, I believe an FM base is completely unnecessary.
And if there is a Sabres game conflict, which would be quite rare, given Sabre games are rarely on Sundays, the Bills could easily slide to WBEN.
Don't know if the Bills-Cumulus news is fact or fiction. As to the Bills choosing to be on FM, it may not be a mandate, but it seems to have been their preference. Around 1990-91, the NFL League Office circulated an advisory which suggested that teams consider negotiating local broadcast rights agreements with FM stations that were willing to meet the teams' demands. The NFL realized that FM stations (especially at that time) reached a younger audience and were on a footing equal or superior to AM stations. IIRC, Mel Karmazin was a major influence with the NFL when his Infinity FM stations did deals in Boston and Philadelphia. Does this mean teams such as the Bills would discount offers from owners of AM properties? No. It's all about the Benjamins.jas2525 said:
It's true. I hold in my hands the press release which states after 13 years 97 Rock has decided to end their broadcasts of the Bills play by play. I know more but can't get into it. My thoughts are the Bills will now get quite a bit less for the rights. Less players = less competition to get the rights. Look for the Bills to pay the price for trying to squeeze more out of a non-growing small market. Just more amo for them to pack their bags when Ralph meets his maker.
Maybe they'll follow WNED's example and try courting a Canadian broadcaster...
It wouldn't surprise me if the Bills took E-9's suggestion, brought sales of the broadcasts in-house, and tried to go more regional with their advertising. They might even attract the attention of some national advertisers. They're already out there selling the game-day advertising, so why not add radio to the package? They could cut a deal for brokered radio time, and have significant leverage over how the Bills were presented during the rest of the broadcast day.
My guess is that Entercom would broker that airtime relatively cheaply to have the cache of the Bills added to their broadcast schedule. They might even pay a small fee for those rights, and expect to make up the costs with ancillary packages around the broadcast. The Bills would then control the profit made on the broadcast by controlling the avails and pricing. It could result in very little change in income, and be a bonanza when (if) the team starts getting back to the playoffs with regularity.
It wouldn't surprise me if the Bills took E-9's suggestion, brought sales of the broadcasts in-house, and tried to go more regional with their advertising. They might even attract the attention of some national advertisers. They're already out there selling the game-day advertising, so why not add radio to the package? They could cut a deal for brokered radio time, and have significant leverage over how the Bills were presented during the rest of the broadcast day.
My guess is that Entercom would broker that airtime relatively cheaply to have the cache of the Bills added to their broadcast schedule. They might even pay a small fee for those rights, and expect to make up the costs with ancillary packages around the broadcast. The Bills would then control the profit made on the broadcast by controlling the avails and pricing. It could result in very little change in income, and be a bonanza when (if) the team starts getting back to the playoffs with regularity.
SirRoxalot said:
Was that before or after the bankruptcy? The bankruptcy voided all contracts, but they quickly resigned the sports contracts. However, my understanding was they were just for one year. The one I've been watching was the Dodgers and KABC. They ended that deal this year too.
My sense is that if they don't have an all-sports station in the market, they can't make back the investment. They have a couple other NFL franchises, and last year they moved one from an FM music station to an FM sports talk. They don't have that option in Buffalo, so they might as well part ways.
It would be interesting if the team took the rights inside, sold it themselves, and then bought time on an area station. That would be a big risk, but teams seem to be better at selling their content than radio companies. Otherwise, as everyone else has said, the logical player is Entercom.
SirRoxalot said:
Brokered time is less appealing in a number of ways. It could be relatively cheap to buy the time to air the games, pre-game and post-game on Sundays, but a broadcast rights deal with the station brings them much more. Morning show coach's features, talk segments here and there, other promotions, and station management assumes a vested interest in the team's success.
Regarding handing radio ad sales over to the guys who sell ads in the at-game program, it's hard to get them to produce at the level of a dedicated radio sales team, in part because there's pressure from agencies to bundle for a discount.
Back before radio consolidation reached the ridiculous point, many owners in the "duopoly" era learned that having the same sales team calling on clients for multiple stations often failed to maximize the potential of the station with lower ratings, or the format with the lower power ratio.
That $2 million also might shrink considerably if the cost of sales had to be pulled out.
Cost of sales would be minimal, maybe 250,000 max. The real costs are travel, which Bills can absorb. Also the protections the Bills give to their stadium advertisers is a real hinderance to the radio sales efforts. If they do the deals they will be more flexible thus generating more revenue. They have a built in sales team who could handle it. The top guy Brandon is known to be a marketing wizzard. He could make it happen.
The Bills sales people are already selling plenty of media. They have very good video and audio capabilities, and games are a true multimedia experience. They're already selling way more than ads in the game program. They have plenty of former broadcast people on their payroll, and it would be quick and easy for them to pick up a couple of people looking to flee Cumulus - or who'll face the axe anyway because they specialized in selling the Bills broadcasts. The cost of sales is essentially based on commission anyway. There's plenty of incentive to sell.
There will still be plenty of stations lining up to get access to Bills players and coaches for in-show features. Jeez, everybody but Jack has at least one Bills player yakking on the Monday after a game. The Bills are such a big event in WNY that you'll still have multiple stations with pre-game and post-game shows - just as you do now. The difference will be in who's the "official" Bills station, with live post-game access to players and coaches.
There will still be plenty of stations lining up to get access to Bills players and coaches for in-show features. Jeez, everybody but Jack has at least one Bills player yakking on the Monday after a game. The Bills are such a big event in WNY that you'll still have multiple stations with pre-game and post-game shows - just as you do now. The difference will be in who's the "official" Bills station, with live post-game access to players and coaches.
There's so much talk on this topic, looks like it's spilled into two threads. The Bills will likely ask for three hours pre-game and post-game, requiring a commitment of six hours plus the game from its broadcast partner. Who will sell and own that inventory? The Bills or the radio station? It's true the Bills have a strong media sales department in place and selling radio would be the final link in the chain.
If the Bills are selling cost per thousand inside the stadium, promising their clients that 70 thousand sets of eyes and ears will be exposed to the advertising, they may have some work to do. There's not a quiet moment in the stadium on game day. With a cacophony of commercials blaring over the PA and ads on the scoreboard and streamer panels, it's sometimes hard to remember there's a football game in progress. Which brings the Bills record over the past twelve years into consideration. The team better get a better on the field and put some asses in the seats. Season ticket sales for 2011 were down and after this season, it's likely even fewer season ticket holders will pony up.
The blogosphere is heating up with noise of impending staff cuts at Cumulus and Clear Channel projected to occur before the New Year. If Cumulus walked away from the Bills, could staff cuts be next?
About Brad Riter and connecting the dots to the projected Bills move to WBEN. Riter can do sports. He fits the requirements and knows many of the players. It could work. As to what he was doing filling in on WBEN? Auditioning? WBEN needed an available host who could work the phones and do the format and he was a known commodity. Comfortable fit. Who knows, it could be a long term gig if the Bills wind up at Entercom. WBEN really needs the Bills to bring in some listeners that are younger than 65. As to the ancillary shows, they can be WGR's domain. Hear the games Sunday on WBEN, talk about them Monday and all week on WGR.
If the Bills are selling cost per thousand inside the stadium, promising their clients that 70 thousand sets of eyes and ears will be exposed to the advertising, they may have some work to do. There's not a quiet moment in the stadium on game day. With a cacophony of commercials blaring over the PA and ads on the scoreboard and streamer panels, it's sometimes hard to remember there's a football game in progress. Which brings the Bills record over the past twelve years into consideration. The team better get a better on the field and put some asses in the seats. Season ticket sales for 2011 were down and after this season, it's likely even fewer season ticket holders will pony up.
The blogosphere is heating up with noise of impending staff cuts at Cumulus and Clear Channel projected to occur before the New Year. If Cumulus walked away from the Bills, could staff cuts be next?
About Brad Riter and connecting the dots to the projected Bills move to WBEN. Riter can do sports. He fits the requirements and knows many of the players. It could work. As to what he was doing filling in on WBEN? Auditioning? WBEN needed an available host who could work the phones and do the format and he was a known commodity. Comfortable fit. Who knows, it could be a long term gig if the Bills wind up at Entercom. WBEN really needs the Bills to bring in some listeners that are younger than 65. As to the ancillary shows, they can be WGR's domain. Hear the games Sunday on WBEN, talk about them Monday and all week on WGR.
B
Bob1370
Guest
Trouble with all this discussion is that it leaves out one crucial factor...how much appeal does the team have, as a key radio programming element for its flagship station, right now? And depending on the answer to that question (a lot or not much) you can know how much positive cash flow and how much valuable cume and TSL it can bring a station...factors which should influence how much a station or group bids. Another factor is whether a station or group can be honest with itself, and assess just how well positioned it is to integrate the Bills into the station's marketing and programming, and make the most of what the team's presence has to offer. A little history may help here.
When WBEN acquired Bills rights from WKBW back in the spring of 1978 the team was coming off a terrible season, but it was clear that better days were ahead...and a popular broadcast team (Van Miller and Stan Barron) and the Bills were being reunited on-air. KB never really benefited much from the Bills while they had them, and weren't too unhappy to let them go. In all fairness to the 1971-77 KB broadcast crew, which was highly competent, Philly sportscaster Al Meltzer, while a fine broadcaster, never quite caught on as "voice of the Bills" with the Western New York audience. Among other things, he sounded too much like his booth-mate Rick Azar (who was already established as part of the city's top TV news team and didn't need the extra airtime). Ed Rutkowski got enough exposure to help launch his political career, and that's the extent of the crew's impact. KB the rest of the week, moreover, went on with its usual format and its music and personality driven sound (a winning formula), and acted like the Bills weren't even there between Monday morning and Saturday night.
WBEN, on the other hand, made the most of the Bills' return. Part of it was luck, catching a team on the rise, but part of it was that everyone from Larry Levite and Bob Wood through the rest of the organization knew how to integrate the Bills coverage into the rest of the programming and news coverage, and sell it. As for the guys who came back when WBEN came back as home of the Bills? No one ever mistook either Van or Stan for anyone else, ever...they were an integral part of the station's image as much as they were associated with the team they covered, had been for a couple of decades. They were lead personalities for the station just like the rest of the daily announcing crew--something KB never did with its Bills announcers.
Today, on the positive side, whoever gets the Bills gets a popular and proven play-by-play man in John Murphy. On the minus side, though, what direction is the team headed? It's been a dozen years and counting since a playoff appearance and it's not likely the drought will end before a further revamping of the roster, which will take a few years to accomplish. Will a new broadcaster either accept that it may not be around to carry the team to its eventual (hoped-for) return to the top...or make a long enough commitment to be there if and when it happens? And will they know what to do with the opportunity they have, the same way Larry Levite and his people did?
I'm sure there will be questions about whether the team will pack up and leave, leaving its broadcast flagship in the lurch, after Ralph Wilson (who's 93) passes on. I'm not sure that's as big a worry as some say. Toronto clearly showed its tepid interest in the Bills, and can't provide a proper revenue base at the Rogers Center (which has fewer skyboxes and 25,000 fewer seats than the Ralph, making it by far the smallest stadium in the league if it hosted a team there). Any other city that can support an NFL franchise either already has one, or is years away from having a modern stadium with enough seats and enough amenities and revenue-producing features (like luxury suites) to even match what the Bills have now at the Ralph. The Bills are going to be in Western NY for a while, certainly years, probably a decade, and in all likelihood as long as there is an NFL. So that's the least of the worries a potential radio home for Bills games should consider. But the direction of the team competitively IS something they should consider. It shouldn't deter a station group from bidding--but it does affect how much revenue can be generated in each of the next three to five years, and should impact the bid price.
When WBEN acquired Bills rights from WKBW back in the spring of 1978 the team was coming off a terrible season, but it was clear that better days were ahead...and a popular broadcast team (Van Miller and Stan Barron) and the Bills were being reunited on-air. KB never really benefited much from the Bills while they had them, and weren't too unhappy to let them go. In all fairness to the 1971-77 KB broadcast crew, which was highly competent, Philly sportscaster Al Meltzer, while a fine broadcaster, never quite caught on as "voice of the Bills" with the Western New York audience. Among other things, he sounded too much like his booth-mate Rick Azar (who was already established as part of the city's top TV news team and didn't need the extra airtime). Ed Rutkowski got enough exposure to help launch his political career, and that's the extent of the crew's impact. KB the rest of the week, moreover, went on with its usual format and its music and personality driven sound (a winning formula), and acted like the Bills weren't even there between Monday morning and Saturday night.
WBEN, on the other hand, made the most of the Bills' return. Part of it was luck, catching a team on the rise, but part of it was that everyone from Larry Levite and Bob Wood through the rest of the organization knew how to integrate the Bills coverage into the rest of the programming and news coverage, and sell it. As for the guys who came back when WBEN came back as home of the Bills? No one ever mistook either Van or Stan for anyone else, ever...they were an integral part of the station's image as much as they were associated with the team they covered, had been for a couple of decades. They were lead personalities for the station just like the rest of the daily announcing crew--something KB never did with its Bills announcers.
Today, on the positive side, whoever gets the Bills gets a popular and proven play-by-play man in John Murphy. On the minus side, though, what direction is the team headed? It's been a dozen years and counting since a playoff appearance and it's not likely the drought will end before a further revamping of the roster, which will take a few years to accomplish. Will a new broadcaster either accept that it may not be around to carry the team to its eventual (hoped-for) return to the top...or make a long enough commitment to be there if and when it happens? And will they know what to do with the opportunity they have, the same way Larry Levite and his people did?
I'm sure there will be questions about whether the team will pack up and leave, leaving its broadcast flagship in the lurch, after Ralph Wilson (who's 93) passes on. I'm not sure that's as big a worry as some say. Toronto clearly showed its tepid interest in the Bills, and can't provide a proper revenue base at the Rogers Center (which has fewer skyboxes and 25,000 fewer seats than the Ralph, making it by far the smallest stadium in the league if it hosted a team there). Any other city that can support an NFL franchise either already has one, or is years away from having a modern stadium with enough seats and enough amenities and revenue-producing features (like luxury suites) to even match what the Bills have now at the Ralph. The Bills are going to be in Western NY for a while, certainly years, probably a decade, and in all likelihood as long as there is an NFL. So that's the least of the worries a potential radio home for Bills games should consider. But the direction of the team competitively IS something they should consider. It shouldn't deter a station group from bidding--but it does affect how much revenue can be generated in each of the next three to five years, and should impact the bid price.
Let me throw a wild idea into the mix: Suppose the Bills bought a radio station. Washington Redskins owner Dan Snyder owns a group of AM radio stations around the DC area that broadcast his games, and are sports/talk the rest of the time. Dan's stations are on AM. There are competing sports/talk stations on FM. He doesn't care. It's worth it to him to keep his rights and sell them as a package to advertisers. That way, he also controls the commentary on his team. Granted, Snyder's background before he bought the Redskins was in communications, so it's not a huge stretch. But he's not actually running the stations. He hired a bunch of experienced broadcasters to run them as part of his Red Lion radio group, and I'm sure similar people are available in Buffalo.
My questions to the locals are: 1) Could the Bills organization afford the investment? 2) Do they have that kind of commitment to the area, or are they just biding time until they move the team elsewhere? and 3) Are there stations available that could cover the region?
If they did this, it would show a long term interest in keeping the team in the area. They would keep all the money from their brand, rather than sharing it with someone else. And they'd have a platform to keep interest in the team during the offseason.
My questions to the locals are: 1) Could the Bills organization afford the investment? 2) Do they have that kind of commitment to the area, or are they just biding time until they move the team elsewhere? and 3) Are there stations available that could cover the region?
If they did this, it would show a long term interest in keeping the team in the area. They would keep all the money from their brand, rather than sharing it with someone else. And they'd have a platform to keep interest in the team during the offseason.
Ralph Wilson is the man who would have to say yes to the Bills either bringing the broadcast revenue in house, or buying a station. I don't see him approving the latter. The only AMs that would give them full-market coverage are owned by Entercom, and I can't see them selling any of them to the Bills. Even KB - a boat anchor now - would compete with them if the Bills owned it. Not to mention the sticky situation with shared towers and facilities.
I do see Ralph Wilson letting Russ Brandon take a crack at selling the in-game advertising and packaging it with the media that they already sell. I could see the Bills making a deal with Entercom that would give them the pre-game and post-game shows in return for putting the games themselves on their air. Entercom gives up game-day revenue in return for being "The Bills Station", and packing plenty of advertising into the "official" pre and post-game shows.
No matter what, the Bills are not going to get the same revenue package that they enjoyed with Citadel/Cumulus. They'd have to bill $125K per game for in-game advertising. At $250 per spot, that's 500 spots. At $500 per spot - an unheard of number in this market - that's 250 spots. There just aren't that many in-game & halftime avails. There's more to the package in weekday revenue, but that's still a huge number to make up, no matter who's selling it.
I do see Ralph Wilson letting Russ Brandon take a crack at selling the in-game advertising and packaging it with the media that they already sell. I could see the Bills making a deal with Entercom that would give them the pre-game and post-game shows in return for putting the games themselves on their air. Entercom gives up game-day revenue in return for being "The Bills Station", and packing plenty of advertising into the "official" pre and post-game shows.
No matter what, the Bills are not going to get the same revenue package that they enjoyed with Citadel/Cumulus. They'd have to bill $125K per game for in-game advertising. At $250 per spot, that's 500 spots. At $500 per spot - an unheard of number in this market - that's 250 spots. There just aren't that many in-game & halftime avails. There's more to the package in weekday revenue, but that's still a huge number to make up, no matter who's selling it.
I think the $250 rate is low for a Bills game, Rox. Bob1370 and BigA also bring interesting perspectives to this thread. Another consideration, the value of the Buffalo Bills (see Forbes list) and the (perceived) value to advertisers/clients of being associated with the team.
The Bills have been out of the playoffs for so many years (going on 12) there's little expectation for the team to be great any time soon. "It's another rebuilding year." This sentiment has an enormous impact on not only the fans who buy tickets (especially season tickets), but the advertisers who invest in reaching the fans by way of radio, television and in stadium media (print, video and audio.) Yes, injuries have hampered the Bills this season.
At the beginning of the 2011 season, fans, season ticket holders and the media were enthralled with the team's strong start that included an unexpected opening season win on the road against the Kansas City Chiefs; big wins at home against the Raiders and Patriots followed. A 3-0 start had fans whispering "playoffs." But the wheels came off and the Bills spiraled into a seven game losing streak which wasn't broken until they beat the Broncos at home on Christmas eve.
What are advertisers willing to pay to buy a schedule? What can stations expect to charge? Listen to the games and you can get a good idea of the "buy-in." Attorneys, automotive, local beer distributors, home improvement, large grocery and retail make up a substantial number of local clients; alcohol and automotive make up a substantial number of national advertising. The men and women who sell the product must believe in its efficacy. For the most part, they do. Their livelihoods depend on the product. But this team has been testing the faithful, the fans, the advertisers, the sales people, for twelve years.
Cumulus may have looked at the Buffalo cluster and come to the conclusion that it could make more money and operate more efficiently by getting out of the sports business. Did Cumulus come to that conclusion because they saw the Bills as bottom line losers? Has Cumulus assessed Bills revenue and come to the conclusion that no matter how good the team may become, no matter how expert the sales department may be, owning the Bills' radio rights wasn't the right fit for where Cumulus wants to take these stations. It may be a matter of market size. Cumulus, said to have $2.7 billion of debt to service after closing on the Citadel properties, may believe owning a sports loss leader is too much of a challenge.
Bob1370 points to the success of WBEN in the late 70s and 80s. As good as WBEN was at packaging and selling during that era, it's history. Fans, especially those 55+, cherish the memories of the AFL Champion Bills of the mid 60s, when "Van, Stan and Rife" were as much a part of the team as Kemp, Tippie Day and Golden Wheels Dubenion. That's when WBEN AM & FM were the flagship stations. Even the Superbowl years of the early 90s when WGR and 97 Rock held the rights and every client in Western New York wanted to buy a schedule are twenty years in the rear view mirror. But this is a different era, different economy, different demographic customer and fan base, and different competitive environment. The NFL is king and they know it. Think about what's available today. ESPN (in seemingly 57 varieties), Fox Sports, the Internet, satellite TV subscriber packages, the NFL Channel, the NFL Red Zone and Sirius/XM. These options certainly weren't there in the 60s, 70s and 80s; the tide turned in the early 90s and by the late 90s, radio was in the fight of its life for TSL,cume and more critically, revenue. We may be able to learn from the past and apply some of what we've observed, but the environment today defies using old school rules of engagement.
As to the possibility of the Bills buying a radio station, taking a page out of the Daniel Snyder-Washington Redskins playbook as BigA suggested, Entercom has a lock on the market's AMs as Rox noted. What of WNED-AM, which is expected be on the block? "Bills 970?" WNED-AM has one of the most challenged 5kw signals in America. (I'm being diplomatic.) Don't think the Bills want to be in the radio ownership business.
How long will the Bills be here? After last Saturday's game, I walked out of the stadium happy with the Bills decisive, long overdue victory. It was the last Bills home game of 2011, but I couldn't help wonder if I'd seen the last Bills home game... ever. I believe the Bills will be here for a while, but so much depends on the 93 year old owner who has refused to sell the team while he's breathing because of tax burdens.
When Wilson signs off, the franchise goes on the block. This won't be about sentimentality. It will be about big, green, powerful money. If the Bills are sold for $780M (based on the $760M price tag of the recently sold Jacksonville Jaguars) the new owners would have a major challenge making that price work in Buffalo. Even with a game in Toronto each year, it's a push. There are more bodies available in the GTA, but the response to the Bills has been tepid at best. I don't believe having eight Bills games a season in Toronto would make a difference. The CFL's Toronto Argonauts present a major hurdle to the Bills. The CFL is protected by the Canadian government. And as 1370 pointed out, Rogers Centre is a small stadium by NFL standards and it's an inefficient configuration for the NFL game.
If the Bills move, Los Angeles is the market with the greatest potential. That's where the money is (the Angels owner is throwing around cash like confetti) and that's the market the NFL wants to have a team in. There are teams less stable than the Bills that could wind up in LA, but those teams don't have an owner who's 93 years old.
Everybody sees Tom Golisano and Jim Kelly as the White Knights riding in to save the Bills. That would be great, but it's going to take a whole lot more power and money to buy the Bills and keep them here. Are fans ready to pay $125 per ticket to sit in the lower bowl, $90 a ticket to sit in the upper deck and $50 a game to park? Is NY state going to kick in $10M a year to renovate the stadium? You'll never watch an NFL game from a better vantage point upper or lower deck or the end zones, but the stadium is archaic by today's stadium and NFL standards.
Let's hope Wilson lives to be 130.
One more thing: Can you imagine the folks at Townsquare read this thread and laughing under their breath. If the Bills take the games "in-house" as some here suggest, maybe Jack becomes a BIG Bills fan. A long shot, but stranger things have happened.
The Bills have been out of the playoffs for so many years (going on 12) there's little expectation for the team to be great any time soon. "It's another rebuilding year." This sentiment has an enormous impact on not only the fans who buy tickets (especially season tickets), but the advertisers who invest in reaching the fans by way of radio, television and in stadium media (print, video and audio.) Yes, injuries have hampered the Bills this season.
At the beginning of the 2011 season, fans, season ticket holders and the media were enthralled with the team's strong start that included an unexpected opening season win on the road against the Kansas City Chiefs; big wins at home against the Raiders and Patriots followed. A 3-0 start had fans whispering "playoffs." But the wheels came off and the Bills spiraled into a seven game losing streak which wasn't broken until they beat the Broncos at home on Christmas eve.
What are advertisers willing to pay to buy a schedule? What can stations expect to charge? Listen to the games and you can get a good idea of the "buy-in." Attorneys, automotive, local beer distributors, home improvement, large grocery and retail make up a substantial number of local clients; alcohol and automotive make up a substantial number of national advertising. The men and women who sell the product must believe in its efficacy. For the most part, they do. Their livelihoods depend on the product. But this team has been testing the faithful, the fans, the advertisers, the sales people, for twelve years.
Cumulus may have looked at the Buffalo cluster and come to the conclusion that it could make more money and operate more efficiently by getting out of the sports business. Did Cumulus come to that conclusion because they saw the Bills as bottom line losers? Has Cumulus assessed Bills revenue and come to the conclusion that no matter how good the team may become, no matter how expert the sales department may be, owning the Bills' radio rights wasn't the right fit for where Cumulus wants to take these stations. It may be a matter of market size. Cumulus, said to have $2.7 billion of debt to service after closing on the Citadel properties, may believe owning a sports loss leader is too much of a challenge.
Bob1370 points to the success of WBEN in the late 70s and 80s. As good as WBEN was at packaging and selling during that era, it's history. Fans, especially those 55+, cherish the memories of the AFL Champion Bills of the mid 60s, when "Van, Stan and Rife" were as much a part of the team as Kemp, Tippie Day and Golden Wheels Dubenion. That's when WBEN AM & FM were the flagship stations. Even the Superbowl years of the early 90s when WGR and 97 Rock held the rights and every client in Western New York wanted to buy a schedule are twenty years in the rear view mirror. But this is a different era, different economy, different demographic customer and fan base, and different competitive environment. The NFL is king and they know it. Think about what's available today. ESPN (in seemingly 57 varieties), Fox Sports, the Internet, satellite TV subscriber packages, the NFL Channel, the NFL Red Zone and Sirius/XM. These options certainly weren't there in the 60s, 70s and 80s; the tide turned in the early 90s and by the late 90s, radio was in the fight of its life for TSL,cume and more critically, revenue. We may be able to learn from the past and apply some of what we've observed, but the environment today defies using old school rules of engagement.
As to the possibility of the Bills buying a radio station, taking a page out of the Daniel Snyder-Washington Redskins playbook as BigA suggested, Entercom has a lock on the market's AMs as Rox noted. What of WNED-AM, which is expected be on the block? "Bills 970?" WNED-AM has one of the most challenged 5kw signals in America. (I'm being diplomatic.) Don't think the Bills want to be in the radio ownership business.
How long will the Bills be here? After last Saturday's game, I walked out of the stadium happy with the Bills decisive, long overdue victory. It was the last Bills home game of 2011, but I couldn't help wonder if I'd seen the last Bills home game... ever. I believe the Bills will be here for a while, but so much depends on the 93 year old owner who has refused to sell the team while he's breathing because of tax burdens.
When Wilson signs off, the franchise goes on the block. This won't be about sentimentality. It will be about big, green, powerful money. If the Bills are sold for $780M (based on the $760M price tag of the recently sold Jacksonville Jaguars) the new owners would have a major challenge making that price work in Buffalo. Even with a game in Toronto each year, it's a push. There are more bodies available in the GTA, but the response to the Bills has been tepid at best. I don't believe having eight Bills games a season in Toronto would make a difference. The CFL's Toronto Argonauts present a major hurdle to the Bills. The CFL is protected by the Canadian government. And as 1370 pointed out, Rogers Centre is a small stadium by NFL standards and it's an inefficient configuration for the NFL game.
If the Bills move, Los Angeles is the market with the greatest potential. That's where the money is (the Angels owner is throwing around cash like confetti) and that's the market the NFL wants to have a team in. There are teams less stable than the Bills that could wind up in LA, but those teams don't have an owner who's 93 years old.
Everybody sees Tom Golisano and Jim Kelly as the White Knights riding in to save the Bills. That would be great, but it's going to take a whole lot more power and money to buy the Bills and keep them here. Are fans ready to pay $125 per ticket to sit in the lower bowl, $90 a ticket to sit in the upper deck and $50 a game to park? Is NY state going to kick in $10M a year to renovate the stadium? You'll never watch an NFL game from a better vantage point upper or lower deck or the end zones, but the stadium is archaic by today's stadium and NFL standards.
Let's hope Wilson lives to be 130.
One more thing: Can you imagine the folks at Townsquare read this thread and laughing under their breath. If the Bills take the games "in-house" as some here suggest, maybe Jack becomes a BIG Bills fan. A long shot, but stranger things have happened.
B
Bob1370
Guest
"If the Bills move, Los Angeles is the market with the greatest potential. That's where the money is (the Angels owner is throwing around cash like confetti) and that's the market the NFL wants to have a team in. There are teams less stable than the Bills that could wind up in LA, but those teams don't have an owner who's 93 years old."
LA isn't going to be the Bills' next home any more than Toronto is. If Toronto has an inadequate stadium (too small) LA has NO up-to-date football venue. Coliseum? No luxury boxes, no premium seating, crumbling after 80 years of use. Dodger Stadium? Not only 25,000 seats short, it's configured for baseball, laid out all wrong for football. Anaheim Stadium? Completely re-configured for baseball since the Rams left years ago, also missing 25,000 seats (which is why the Rams left for St. Louis) and Artie Moreno (the Angels owner) doesn't want to share. New billion-dollar venue? Years away, even if someone with money was around (and it won't be public money, the city and the state are broke). Anyplace else? Every city with a suitable stadium is already in the league. I've heard San Antonio mentioned, but the Alamo Dome (their biggest venue) only seats 40,000, it's configured for basketball and might be able to fit a baseball team in a pinch, but it's 35,000 or more seats short of what the NFL would need.
The Bills aren't going ayplace. When they're competitive, they draw better from Buffalo and Rochester than they would from anywhere else that doesn't already have a team of its own.
What they need now is a flagship station with expertise in integrating the team into an overall marketing and promotion plan for the station and the team. I think they know that...and never would have left WBEN in the 90s if the station had stayed in Larry Levite's hands.
LA isn't going to be the Bills' next home any more than Toronto is. If Toronto has an inadequate stadium (too small) LA has NO up-to-date football venue. Coliseum? No luxury boxes, no premium seating, crumbling after 80 years of use. Dodger Stadium? Not only 25,000 seats short, it's configured for baseball, laid out all wrong for football. Anaheim Stadium? Completely re-configured for baseball since the Rams left years ago, also missing 25,000 seats (which is why the Rams left for St. Louis) and Artie Moreno (the Angels owner) doesn't want to share. New billion-dollar venue? Years away, even if someone with money was around (and it won't be public money, the city and the state are broke). Anyplace else? Every city with a suitable stadium is already in the league. I've heard San Antonio mentioned, but the Alamo Dome (their biggest venue) only seats 40,000, it's configured for basketball and might be able to fit a baseball team in a pinch, but it's 35,000 or more seats short of what the NFL would need.
The Bills aren't going ayplace. When they're competitive, they draw better from Buffalo and Rochester than they would from anywhere else that doesn't already have a team of its own.
What they need now is a flagship station with expertise in integrating the team into an overall marketing and promotion plan for the station and the team. I think they know that...and never would have left WBEN in the 90s if the station had stayed in Larry Levite's hands.
OMG Bob! If you only knew how close big Larry was to losing it all...he was not a good businessman. Great creative guy, lousy at the numbers. Larry could not have kept the Bills, he'd be sitting with a tin cup outside of Tops on Elmwood right now if he had tried to keep his stations. The Mercury/Citadel/Cumlus Bills experiment over the last 13 years cost them millions in losses when you look at the broadcasts. They will argue it helped them make money during the rest of the year. I don't buy it. It was a poor emotional decision made by a lucky balding friend, who happened to be at the right place at the right time, of key executives at the Bills, who wanted to drink fine wine with his buddies in the private box at the Ralph. Just when does a station that already reaches the demo, with classic rock, need the Bills to own that demo? Emotional decisions usually lead to fail. As much as Cumulus is bad for radio, they made the right decision here.
- Status