"Black Monday" at Townsquare Media

[Smiley1]

http://www.allaccess.com/net-news/a...ohnson-exit-townsquare-nj-stations?ref=search


...among others dumped by Townsquare Media yesterday...allegedly firing at least 1/2 a dozen people in various positions around the station. 'Out with the young, in with the supremely old and boring' seems to be their motto (based on those bizarre twitter promotions they have-- and Deminski and Doyle). Always stinks when a company comes into a state and puts its people out of work. Can't even figure out the direction of these people, ratings seem to be sinking!

 

[Zackster]

Well Smiley1, since this is your first post, we can only assume you are one of the fired.
Have you ever heard "Just A Bit Outside" on the air? It was awful. Tyrone Johnson
made it tolerable, but the other two guys were bad. Maybe WCHR will get back on
track with Classic Rock like it should. They need to get back to music and STFU.

 

[Smiley1]

Believe it or not, I'm happily employed in a non-radio profession. I've been a creeper to this forum for quite some time and noticed this wasn't being discussed. Don't assume, it's never a good look. Because I'm new to a message board, I'm fired? Good logic! Taking an article from a public forum about radio professionals and posting it along with additional information..ON A RADIO MESSAGE BOARD..and questioning the direction of the company (which I believe many other people have done!) doesn't mean I have an agenda. Relax. No one was talking about this so I figured I'd mention it. I didn't mind the guys, particularly Johnson on the weekends. Nice way to welcome people to the board Zackster...

 

[azby1]

maybe it wasn't being discussed because it's not that huge of news.

Obviously, it is always sad to see someone lose his/her job, but night shows come and go in this business. I'm sure the prior mgmt had an idea for this show and tried it. It probably did not bring any extra income, so it was scrapped after giving it a chance.

Let's be honest it's much cheaper to VT nights than to pay 3 live hosts.

I personally never listened much to the show, but from the little i've heard, it sounded like these guys were young and have now seen real life in the radio world. To be their ages and have a FT on-air radio job in this market is pretty awesome! They should be proud to have had such an experience already!

A college professor once told me: "You haven't worked in radio long enough until you've quit or been let go at least once."

This isn't format-flipping news...let's all relax and hope for some positive changes to radio in the market this year. ;D

 

[Smiley1]

It's actually NOT just 'a night show'. There is also a 5 day a week afternoon show and a local weekend show (3 shows). And as some else said to me, you don't always want to listen to a national sports show--sometimes you want something a little local..people who can talk about the area, the town or the people. Do I want everything voice tracked? Eh, not really. I want hosts.. I want people I can get used to.. people who are live and in the station. I can't stand that "Jelly" radio bs (I think WPST uses it).

I also never realized someone's age is a reflection of their knowledge and ability? But then again, maybe I'm just young myself and should be happy to have the experiences I've had in my life. Sorry, I don't take kindly to the attitude that age should somehow dictate your place in life mostly because of experiences at my own job. Ray Rossi has been around for a long time and I wouldn't call him good. Deminski and Doyle have been around for a long time and I find them to be AWFUL... and although I'm a fan, Judy has quite a lot of detractors and she's been around for a long time.

Tough board... clearly there are certain people here who deem what is post worthy and what isn't..I didn't realize that radio info or news wasn't just that. As a station listener it was interesting to me... Sorry for sharing the info. Back to creeping for me..

 

[bigtom101]

I personally never listened much to the show, but from the little i've heard, it sounded like these guys were young and have now seen real life in the radio world. To be their ages and have a FT on-air radio job in this market is pretty awesome! They should be proud to have had such an experience already!

I'm not a sports radio guy, but I would listen to them on occasion and liked that they weren't blowhards and always sounded like they were having fun, similar to Toucher & Rich on WBZ-FM in. Hopefully they land on their feet soon....

 

[TheBigA]

I also never realized someone's age is a reflection of their knowledge and ability?

One of the biggest problems, particularly in the northeast, is establishing a new radio personality. This may be a reflection of the audience demos, but people seem to want familiarity. That means someone in their 40s or 50s. The other requirement for talk radio is credibility. That's hard to get if you're in your 20s.

 

[Who Cares]

I also never realized someone's age is a reflection of their knowledge and ability?

One of the biggest problems, particularly in the northeast, is establishing a new radio personality. This may be a reflection of the audience demos, but people seem to want familiarity. That means someone in their 40s or 50s. The other requirement for talk radio is credibility. That's hard to get if you're in your 20s.

I think it's not so much age as perceived age. Generally speaking, if you're on a classic rocker and you sound like a 20 year old kid, that doesn't typically work. Likewise, if you're a 50 year old guy on a TOP 40 you probably won't sound right.

Announcers on sports talk and talk radio have to be credible with their voices first. That lends to sounding older, seasoned, experienced, knowledgeable. The words they say come next. If I have 5 minutes in the car and I hear half a commercial and a caller ask a question, the voice answering the question needs to sound like it has the knowledge and/or experience to answer the question. You don't get to verbalize your pedigree every 10 seconds, and people only have your voice to go by if they don't really know you (i.e. new in the market, etc.).

I don't want some 25 year old kid telling me who he thinks should be in the White House if I'm a 50 year old guy.

As for the WENJ/WCHR guys, I never like to hear of anyone losing a job, especially in this economy, however they did strike me more as fans than sports talk show hosts. One of them sounded much older than he was (I think I heard him say he was in his early 20's once), but he also had a very south Jersey accent. I guess that might work if you're in southern NJ, but usually you want your radio show hosts to not have too much of an accent. Regardless, they may have simply lost their jobs because, as was mentioned in an earlier post, it's cheaper to VT than to pay 3 live hosts. However, I disagree with the "it wasn't bringing in income" line, because that's the job of the, usually inept in these markets, sales force.

 

[TheBigA]

I disagree with the "it wasn't bringing in income" line, because that's the job of the, usually inept in these markets, sales force.

Not necessarily. Advertisers buy numbers, not programming. It's pretty cut & dried. You can't put lipstick on a pig, and the audience after 7PM is generally not sellable.

 

[Smiley1]

I'm surprised about all this ageism... .

I also think that most sports hosts are just that--fans. You don't really hear a lot of players and coaches hosting. It's usually people who know the facts and figures and understand the breakdown of the game. Is a college athlete a credible host? A high school coach? Does a proper adult night host have to have a lot of sex to talk about it?

It would be nice to get a fresh perspective across the board...instead of the same old thing. Some 40 year old thinking he's smarter than someone who might actually have more time to pay attention to the sport...that seems to be all I ever hear. Being older doesn't always make you wiser.. 8)

 

[azby1]

OK first off...please calm down. It's just radio, not brain surgery. People who choose to work in radio know that.

I was NOT attacking the employees' abilities/skills based on their age. If anything, I was congratulating them on actually having something credible to put on their resumes at such an early age.

Second,
I have no idea about the programming on the ESPN station. I'm sure it was much better received there as that is a sports/talk station and the show was probably even a bit different for that station. I was talking about the night show on The Hawk. If company wanted to make changes to The Hawk and particularly their show, we (you and I) don't personally know how that may or may not have affected their shows on 97.3 ESPN.

I agree with The Big A...unfortunately we do not always get what WE want because we don't pay the bills. A ratings system (whose flaws are not even worth talking about. we all know it's not accurate) is what sells the stations because you (Smiley1) are correct: In most cases, the sales teams are not in tune.

I don't even know what their ratings were like on The Hawk. I'm just saying. Good for them to have been luck enough to get an opportunity like they did.

This is the way this business works. The guys probably are well-aware of this also and already working on getting back out there.

 

[TheBigA]

I also think that most sports hosts are just that--fans. You don't really hear a lot of players and coaches hosting.

How about Boomer Esiason? Quite a few other athletes host radio shows. Maybe not in NJ. But there are also lots of young 20-somethings hosting radio shows.

My point was more about credibility, familiarity, and name recognition vs age. I hosted an oldies radio show when I was a kid. But my credibility came from working at a well known music store and having a pretty detailed knowledge of music history. Not from the radio show. Some radio hosts only have their show for credibility. Not much to build on there, if you ask me. I've worked with a lot of sports statisticians, and they tend to make good sports hosts if they have personality. That's also another big "if."

 

[radio-free ventnor]

Slightly back on topic, were these three gentlemen the only ones let go or were there others? I'm curious as I know at least one person at Townsquare in the AC market, another in Trenton, plus someone at the Point

 

[azby1]

Looks like mike merrell's new music show is missing from the hawks website too

 

[Who Cares]

I disagree with the "it wasn't bringing in income" line, because that's the job of the, usually inept in these markets, sales force.

Not necessarily. Advertisers buy numbers, not programming. It's pretty cut & dried. You can't put lipstick on a pig, and the audience after 7PM is generally not sellable.

Sorry, sir, that's not necessarily true, unless the numbers you're talking about are per spot costs. Explain why the 2nd best (name your format) station in a given market gets more/better quality/different advertisers than the higher rated competitor. I can tell you a very specific set of competitors in NJ where the #2 is cleaning up with spots even though their ratings are pitiful compared to the #1 (in that format/target audience). It's because the #2 is severely undercutting their per spot and package costs.

Typically, national ad buys go based solely on the numbers, but not local businesses. They buy on 2 criteria - price per spot/package and/or personal preference of the station, regardless of the ratings. It's the rare local business that buys solely on the ratings.

So, it's the job of the sales force to get in front of businesses in their market and present numbers, costs, hosts, added value, etc.

 

[TheBigA]

Sorry, sir, that's not necessarily true, unless the numbers you're talking about are per spot costs.

My post was about the daypart. After 7 PM is usually bonus spots given to bigger advertisers and lots of national spots like GEICO and 1-800 numbers. The sales force sells morning drive because that's where the money is.

 

[Who Cares]

I'm surprised about all this ageism... .

I also think that most sports hosts are just that--fans. You don't really hear a lot of players and coaches hosting. It's usually people who know the facts and figures and understand the breakdown of the game. Is a college athlete a credible host? A high school coach? Does a proper adult night host have to have a lot of sex to talk about it?

It would be nice to get a fresh perspective across the board...instead of the same old thing. Some 40 year old thinking he's smarter than someone who might actually have more time to pay attention to the sport...that seems to be all I ever hear. Being older doesn't always make you wiser.. 8)

Big difference between being a fan and sounding like a fan.

I had a friend who loved the sport of baseball. He coached at the high school level, very successfully, too. He knew the sport inside and out. He was knowledgeable both in the sport in general and major league players and stats. However, he was a fan of a particular team and no matter how well that team did (or didn't), or how well a player did (or didn't), he would subjectively always position his team and/or the given player in the better/best debate. He could never be objective. He was, forever, a fan, regardless of the facts.

It's really about perception, no matter what the person's actual age is. It's about how seasoned they sound. Age ads to perception.

 

[Who Cares]

Sorry, sir, that's not necessarily true, unless the numbers you're talking about are per spot costs.

My post was about the daypart. After 7 PM is usually bonus spots given to bigger advertisers and lots of national spots like GEICO and 1-800 numbers. The sales force sells morning drive because that's where the money is.

You're right, in general, but it's not unilateral. Many stations run special pricing for after 7pm, so it's easy to sell the package as a salesperson to a small business owner. Example: $50/per for morning drive, $7 from 7pm to 5am (totally speculating).

The sales force sells packages, special pricing, sales, morning drive, afternoon drive, etc. They don't just focus on morning drive. Yes, that's where the money is, but it's also the most expensive sale. Most sales people focus on $ figure buys, as in "what's your budget? Oh, you can spend $1,000 this month? Great, let me show you what we offer for $1,000. You get 3 spots a week in morning drive, 10 guaranteed from 10a-4p, 5 from 4-7p and 25 after 7pm. Oh, you want 10 in morning drive? Ok, well that means you only get 10 after 7pm, and none between 10am and 7pm." Or whatever, I'm totally just throwing numbers out there. Bottom line, it's what can we get you to pay, here's what that'll get you for your money.

 

[Smiley1]

I also think that most sports hosts are just that--fans. You don't really hear a lot of players and coaches hosting.

How about Boomer Esiason? Quite a few other athletes host radio shows. Maybe not in NJ. But there are also lots of young 20-somethings hosting radio shows.

My point was more about credibility, familiarity, and name recognition vs age. I hosted an oldies radio show when I was a kid. But my credibility came from working at a well known music store and having a pretty detailed knowledge of music history. Not from the radio show. Some radio hosts only have their show for credibility. Not much to build on there, if you ask me. I've worked with a lot of sports statisticians, and they tend to make good sports hosts if they have personality. That's also another big "if."

How about Craig Carton? He's not an athlete...He came from 101.5.And you were able to host a show when you were a kid because you worked at a music store, not because you were a musician. The same way your expertise came from exposure to the music, someone else'e expertise might have come from exposure to the game.

 

[Smiley1]

OK first off...please calm down. It's just radio, not brain surgery. People who choose to work in radio know that.

I was NOT attacking the employees' abilities/skills based on their age. If anything, I was congratulating them on actually having something credible to put on their resumes at such an early age.

Second,
I have no idea about the programming on the ESPN station. I'm sure it was much better received there as that is a sports/talk station and the show was probably even a bit different for that station. I was talking about the night show on The Hawk. If company wanted to make changes to The Hawk and particularly their show, we (you and I) don't personally know how that may or may not have affected their shows on 97.3 ESPN.

I agree with The Big A...unfortunately we do not always get what WE want because we don't pay the bills. A ratings system (whose flaws are not even worth talking about. we all know it's not accurate) is what sells the stations because you (Smiley1) are correct: In most cases, the sales teams are not in tune.

I don't even know what their ratings were like on The Hawk. I'm just saying. Good for them to have been luck enough to get an opportunity like they did.

This is the way this business works. The guys probably are well-aware of this also and already working on getting back out there.

I'm calm, I was just making my point. Knowing a little bit about the situation, I do know at least one of those let go isn't necessarily that young and wouldn't just be 'happy' to have it on their resume, like they didn't work for it.