BLACK STATIONS why haven't ratings risen?

[kevinsealy]

When the PMMs were introduced owners and programmers of Black formatted radio stations were crying out to the Black Congreesional Caucus for aid claiming that their statikons would suffer ratings and revue loss b ecause those stations would be fairly represented in the distribution of the PPMs.

Arbitron reacted this past July by reaching out to minority areas giving them a larger presentation of PPMs.

But after five Arbitron books, the city's four Black formatted stations show no boost in their numbers.



Thanks,
Kevin L. Sealy

 

[atlantaboy]

The four Urban/Urban ACs stations in Atlanta are huge in ratings (1st, 3rd, 7th, and 10th), so don't think it's a technical problem with PPMs

 

[davideduardo]

When the PMMs were introduced owners and programmers of Black formatted radio stations were crying out to the Black Congreesional Caucus for aid claiming that their statikons would suffer ratings and revue loss b ecause those stations would be fairly represented in the distribution of the PPMs.
Arbitron reacted this past July by reaching out to minority areas giving them a larger presentation of PPMs.
But after five Arbitron books, the city's four Black formatted stations show no boost in their numbers.

That's a complex question. and involves several things.

First many formats that had low cumes coupled with high TSL in the diary saw that the high TSL came down (TSL fell for just about every station in format due to the precision of the meter). But formats like smooth jazz, with restricted cumes, lost TSL and did not gain cume and thus dropped considerably. TSL in the diary ranged from 5 hours up to above 10 hours in the diary. In PPM, it is between about 2:45 and 4:00 for all major stations. Ands major formats increased dramatically in cume.

Ethnic stations of any sort have a cume limit, which is essentially only within the target audience. And it gets more extreme if you consider Spanish language staitons... they are mostly limited to Hispanics who are Spanish dominant... generally about half of all Hispanics.

Arbitron agreed to a more precise and effective rectruting and retention of panel participants in the PPM, not an "increase in participation." The issue is, simply, maintaining the panel proportional on all stratification variables such as ethnicities, age, gender, geography, income level, etc. And it was agreed to move into some address based recruiting and other practices to insure this. But if a market is 15% Black, the goal has been and always was to have 15% Black panelists; the improvements are in the area of making sure that the 15% are a correct cross secion (proportional not just on ethnicity but on all other variables).

When we see the Urban and the Urban AC stations in Houston often at #1 and #2, I think we know that Arbitron is not responsible for the fragmentaion by competition, the quality of programming and other station related issues.

The fact is, based on 40 years of diary reviews, that different groups tended to be more or less precise in filling in diaries. For example, Hispanics tended to round to the hour and half hour, which converted a 10:17 to 10:48 listening occasion from 2 quarter hours into 4 quarter hours. Similarly, stations that were not the favorite of a diary keeper did not get the due credit...

 

[lalumia]

pop music and oldies are overwhelmingly popular these days on terrestrial radio; things go in cycles, and the hard core hip hop/r&b folks that I know are all about ipods and internet stations , not listening to regular radio

 

[davideduardo]

pop music and oldies are overwhelmingly popular these days on terrestrial radio; things go in cycles, and the hard core hip hop/r&b folks that I know are all about ipods and internet stations , not listening to regular radio

The 2010 Edison Research "American Youth Study" shows over 50% of 12-21's hear new music first on radio, and also found that, while TSL is down, use of radio is not.

Oldies are no more popular than they ever were. Pop is a component of CHR, whose mix of elements has always moved around... today's pop influence is no different than the Motown influence, or the British Invasion or any other wave or well liked similar material.

 

[lalumia]

yes, David, but during the Motown era, black radio was nowhere near the stature it achieved a decade or two later.....

 

[MarcR]

pop music and oldies are overwhelmingly popular these days on terrestrial radio; things go in cycles, and the hard core hip hop/r&b folks that I know are all about ipods and internet stations , not listening to regular radio

The 2010 Edison Research "American Youth Study" shows over 50% of 12-21's hear new music first on radio, and also found that, while TSL is down, use of radio is not.

I read about that study in Rolling Stone magazine, and the headline the magazine used for it was "Radio is Losing Its Younger Listeners", or something to that effect.

 

[pjc1961]

Edison Research report: "The American Youth Study 2010 - Part One: Radio's Future":

http://www.edisonresearch.com/home/...leases_the_american_youth_study_2010_part.php

and http://www.edisonresearch.com/home/...n_youth_study_2010_part_one_radios_future.php

 

[MattParker]

First many formats that had low cumes coupled with high TSL in the diary saw that the high TSL came down (TSL fell for just about every station in format due to the precision of the meter). But formats like smooth jazz, with restricted cumes, lost TSL and did not gain cume and thus dropped considerably. TSL in the diary ranged from 5 hours up to above 10 hours in the diary. In PPM, it is between about 2:45 and 4:00 for all major stations. Ands major formats increased dramatically in cume.

Translation: People wrote that they were listening to one station all day (or some extended period of time) when in fact they did some dial-surfing, which was not reported. Reasons may vary. It's easier just to write down one station. A diary panelist may be a "fan" of the station and want to "help out." Researchers have spent the last 80 years studying why respondents lie to researchers and they still don't really understand all the reasons (which keep changing). Bottom line: Some stations lose points because people are not listening as constantly as they wrote in diaries. Some stations gain points because they now get credit for those closet "surfers."

One issue I have not seen resolved: Do PPMs help (or hurt) stations whose audiences skew to the lower socio-economic and lower educational groups? Are we going to get a more accurate reading from PPMs than diaries among those poorer, disadvantaged and less literate? Or less participation because they don't understand and/or distrust the technology? That would seem to be more important than any of the sampling issues raised.

 

[davideduardo]

yes, David, but during the Motown era, black radio was nowhere near the stature it achieved a decade or two later.....

I was not speaking of Motown on r&b stations (as they were called in the 60's) but of Motown as a trend and influence on Top 40 at the time.

In any case, when we speak of the "stature" of a format, the term has to be defined.

If you mean the influence of r&b stations in the 60's, saying that those stations were not influencial is untrue. Whether it was WVON in Chicago, WJLB in Detroit, WAOK in Atlanta, WJMO in Cleveland, WOOK and WOL in DC, WDIA in Memphis, KGFJ in LA, KYOK in Houston, and many others, the r&b stations not only had strong listener bases, but were also at the forfront of the civil rights movement.

 

[lalumia]

I meant the profile, I know the impact they had;
as a teen on Long Island, I listened to Hit Radio 77WABC AM,but I knew that they kept a close eye on WWRL AM(whose signal I couldn't pick up in Suffolk County), whose airplay in the NY area accounted for the huge sales of R&B 45 rpm singles, resulting in those records getting added to the WABC playlist(the biggest example being the James Brown hit on King Records, "Say It Loud-I'm Black And I'm Proud";
shipping and sales in record stores was a big deal back then(or so we are told), and WWRL forced countless 'black oriented hits' onto the oh-so-white WABC AM, until they started to tilt more and more to 'adult contemporary', which lead to the death of Top 40, ...until MTV saved the day in 81...with their all white playlist in their early days

 

[davideduardo]

I meant the profile, I know the impact they had;
as a teen on Long Island, I listened to Hit Radio 77WABC AM,but I knew that they kept a close eye on WWRL AM(whose signal I couldn't pick up in Suffolk County), whose airplay in the NY area accounted for the huge sales of R&B 45 rpm singles, resulting in those records getting added to the WABC playlist

I understand that point... although what likely WABC did was monitor singles sales throughout the metro as well as juke box plays. When they decided a song was mass appeal enough, even if it originated on another local station, they might add it.

Because of its coverage, WABC itself could generate sales in a very large piece of geography where other Top 40's did watch it carefully.

 

[lalumia]

I started doing interviews in 1970 while still in school, one of the first was going up to WABC for a newsprint publication called "Rock" ,and i got to sit with Cousin Bruce Morrow while he was on the air, talk to him afterward, and meet and speak to Rick Sklar as well( didn't know what an honor that was until many years later)
I got to do a followup a month or two later with Dan Ingram, the afternoon man, and he told me that they closely watched WWRL to track the big R&B records;
they also were aware of their Latin audience; records like "Eres Tu" by Mocedades and "Make It With You" by Ralphie Pagan were just two of the WABC hits supported by the Latin audience; back then, the whole world listened to 77WABC Music Radio

 

[JerseyDude]

Have you listened to the Urban Stations in New York lately? They sound like crap.

Urban AC WBLS plays the Top 12 Urban AC songs over and over again. They throw in an old song from the 70s,80s or 90s to try to break up the 12 songs. Monica's "Love all over me" is played 12,354 times a day. They are slow to add new music. No variety at all. Who would listen to something like that?

WRKS is really bad. Emmis hired a young woman who programmed a Hip-Hip station in Orlando to program KISS. They have been playing "Hold on to your love" by En Vogue (1990) as if it came out yesterday. The playlist is all over the place.

There is an Old School Hip-Hop battle between WBLS and WRKS on Saturday nights. If you are over 30 and don't like Old School Hip-Hop, there is no station to listen to on Saturday nights.

4 Urbans is too much for the New York City market. One has to go.

 

[davideduardo]

Urban AC WBLS plays the Top 12 Urban AC songs over and over again. They throw in an old song from the 70s,80s or 90s to try to break up the 12 songs. Monica's "Love all over me" is played 12,354 times a day. They are slow to add new music. No variety at all. Who would listen to something like that?

I know you are using sarcasm/hyperbole to make the point, but WBLS' fastest rotating songs are getting 33 weekly spins... which is a light AC kind of trunover. And there are about 750 different titles played each week. That's a large library.

WRKS is really bad. Emmis hired a young woman who programmed a Hip-Hip station in Orlando to program KISS.

Radio PDs in large markets tend to come from the tier below... Orlando sounds about right.

They have been playing "Hold on to your love" by En Vogue (1990) as if it came out yesterday. The playlist is all over the place.

The song got 3 spins in the last 7 days, and 4 spins in the previous 7 day period. They have over 800 songs in rotation, ranging from 27 spins to a single play per week.

 

[BiggieFats]

Oh, if only Frankie Crocker was still alive...

 

[JerseyDude]

Oh, if only Frankie Crocker was still alive...

@Biggie,

Yeah, it would be nice if Frankie Crocker were still around.

Not all Urban/Urban ACs are as bad as WRKS and WBLS.

WHUR in Washington,DC and WBAV in Charlotte,NC are somewhat progressive. Both stations play a nice amount of Neo/Real Soul Music. WHUR is already playing Eric Benet's 2nd single from his new CD "Never want to live without you". 'HUR has the Floacist/Musiq Soulchild song in regular rotation. Both stations are playing the new Marsha Ambrosius song "Far Away".

Both WBLS and WRKS ignore regional songs. Regional songs were big for both stations back in the day. I guess payola wouldn't allow for that today.