Blast from the past... WNOP aircheck on eBay!!

[Elephant]

darksoldier...the point is there are not enough real jazz fans to give a station enough cume or TSL to even approach what those other stations do. It's not about what they have to do with a real jazz station, it's about how much audience you need to get to a 1.5. WFTK was not done right, but at the end of the format the Angry Guys, Dave Ramsey, and Andy Furman were Top 10 with adults, and the station still only got a 1.4. Do you honestly think any dayparts on a real jazz AM would come close to that? There's no way that it would get more than a 0.5. I'm surprised WCIN isn't closer to a 1.5 with all of the Smooth Jazz fanatics out there, but it is what it is. By the way, WSAI is only 5kw. If you look at the Fall 2007 Arbitron, you'll see that Mike & Mike on WSAI beat Alan Cutler on WCKY, which is 50kw. Signal is important of course, but crappy programming on a good signal is vulnerable to better programming on a smaller signal.

 

[Elephant]

By the way, I have to agree with those that say WNOP is a better signal than WCIN. Even when WNOP was 1kw, it was better. Being that low on the dial and as directional as it is, WNOP slams east, west, southwest, and southeast. WCIN is much better north and covers more at night, but with its 2.5kw signal, WNOP can be heard as far west as Columbus, Indiana...as far east as Ripley, Ohio and Maysville, and as far southwest as Madison, Indiana. At night it actually gets to Eastgate, but barely gets into Norwood, if at all. WNOP's processing at the end of the jazz days was incredible. They had that new transmitter installed after the old one got zapped. It was the best sounding AM I can remember. WCIN always had that low rumbly sound with no highs at all and low modulation. WCIN sounds pretty good these days.

 

[darksoldier]

darksoldier...I agree that a SJ FM could get a 3 to a 4, but a 1.5 on a Real Jazz AM? No way. Look at the stations that now occupy the 1.0 share range:

WNNF 1.7 (145,000 cume)
WAKW 1.5 (close to 100,000 cume)
WFTK 1.4 (had Top 10 morning and afternoon shows)
WDBZ 1.1 (low cume but very high TSL)
WCKY 1.0 (The Bengals station with Top 10 afternoons)
WDJO 0.9 (a more mainstream format than Real Jazz)
WCIN 0.8 (low cume and high TSL)

Besides, the LEGENDARY WNOP couldn't muster a 0.5 before it went off the air.

I think you're looking at a Real Jazz AM station getting a 0.5, and that's generous.

WNOP was a 1k day 37.5w night signal in the days of Real Jazz, with 0 promotions, 0 marketing, and 0 ownership interest in its success. I am in no way suggesting 1.5 is a slam dunk. It is the very top end of what I believe the format properly executed, promoted, and marketed "could" do. This in particular if it is part of a combo with the FM smooth. Not real sure what the stations you mention have to do with a Real Jazz station. I think what all those stations, and #'s speak to is more about what they (we) are failing to do, than what can be done. Exception:WAKW. MIX..WNNF...Radio 94.1...whatever the heck it is, will not be commented on by me until there is some long term consistency with the branding of the frequency. I think that FTK was an ill conceived notion in a overloaded talk market, and a not yet vulnerable WLW. DBZ is a URBAN talk, predominately for African Americans who make up 11.3% of the market, and rely upon the same 25 callers every day...uhhh like to see those numbers ever get much higher under those circumstances. CKY "The Bengal's station"...hmmmm, guess thats why I listened to all of the games on the FOX. Both DJO and CIN are underfunded stand alones who both beat 50K WSAI... WTF!!!! Again, my thesis depended upon a properly funded, passionate, informed ownership, operating in combo with a FM, and doing some REAL WORK.

No one should know better than you!

Dennis "The Iron Man" Michaels, got a 1 rating once or twice when he was at the helm. He did a terrific job on the programming end, but as the soldier mentions, I remember the "Jazz Ark" living out of at least three locations during his tenure, I visited all three. The Jazz Mansion on Spring Grove was the last building, then there was the corner of Central Ave. and (I don't remember), and then there was the cubbyhole located more downtown, and I can't remember the street unless I was on it.

Now that WNOP has 2500 watts daytime, a 1.5 could happen. Sorry Soldier, WNOP's signal to the east today, KILLS WCIN in all time periods. Combination of directional pattern/frequency.

I'll have to start buying the ^$@&*@ lottery tickets, so I can buy a station.

Major...Your are absolutely correct in the eastern corridor.... due to a pretty significant null, but OVERALL...its not even close. Good luck with the lottery! ;D

 

[darksoldier]

By the way, I have to agree with those that say WNOP is a better signal than WCIN. Even when WNOP was 1kw, it was better. Being that low on the dial and as directional as it is, WNOP slams east, west, southwest, and southeast. WCIN is much better north and covers more at night, but with its 2.5kw signal, WNOP can be heard as far west as Columbus, Indiana...as far east as Ripley, Ohio and Maysville, and as far southwest as Madison, Indiana. At night it actually gets to Eastgate, but barely gets into Norwood, if at all. WNOP's processing at the end of the jazz days was incredible. They had that new transmitter installed after the old one got zapped. It was the best sounding AM I can remember. WCIN always had that low rumbly sound with no highs at all and low modulation. WCIN sounds pretty good these days.

Hey Elephant,

I agree with the notion of the directional caveats you speak of regarding signal, but the OVERALL coverage of WCIN is superior these days, particularly when you speak to the most populous and desireable areas for the format. Given, the east side is both populous and desireable, so thus the exception to the rule. I believe that when we speak to coverage, it is most important that we can cover where we can and need to compete. There is not a lot beyond Amelia to the east, Argosy to the west, Florence to the south, and Mason over to Fairfield to the north that could have major impact on overall success anyway. The approach has to be very targeted and deliberate in our situation. Better sound/coverage is the result of a rebuilt ground system, new phaser, and greatly improved processing equipment. Of course, position on the dial is a detriment, and always will be unless the FCC permits the use of translators on AM. In terms of the arb #'s...It's simple...there has been no where near the amount of money spent on marketing and promotions needed to make a strong dent. I still have near daily emails from people who say they just discovered we are here....But alas..I only keep it on the air...not determine the allocation of dollars.

 

[darksoldier]

darksoldier...the point is there are not enough real jazz fans to give a station enough cume or TSL to even approach what those other stations do. It's not about what they have to do with a real jazz station, it's about how much audience you need to get to a 1.5. WFTK was not done right, but at the end of the format the Angry Guys, Dave Ramsey, and Andy Furman were Top 10 with adults, and the station still only got a 1.4. Do you honestly think any dayparts on a real jazz AM would come close to that? There's no way that it would get more than a 0.5. I'm surprised WCIN isn't closer to a 1.5 with all of the Smooth Jazz fanatics out there, but it is what it is. By the way, WSAI is only 5kw. If you look at the Fall 2007 Arbitron, you'll see that Mike & Mike on WSAI beat Alan Cutler on WCKY, which is 50kw. Signal is important of course, but crappy programming on a good signal is vulnerable to better programming on a smaller signal.

Sorry about the SAI error...I do still make those...tho infrequently ;D I truly believe that there are enough fans, and I state again, that it would be the very HIGHEST number one could ever hope for with the specific set of circumstances that I spoke of in the earlier post. Again, as major indicated, there were 1.0's a couple of times with WNOP when it was done "right", and the elder Vontz was still around to give a hoot. I think that if those numbers were achieved, it would skew to the much older. Being around the jazz scene in this town for some years now, I think you might be surprised at the number of fans who simply don't have an outlet....particularly if (like at NOP) there was a presence of blues within the format. But this is only my theory....RIDE THE MAVERICK!! ;D