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Blow up the house or remodel one room at a time

The length of the HTT lineup thread is quite impressive.

A question out there. It was no secret that HTT was changing direction and target demo but essentially made this transition over several months and TODAY, mr james patrick talked up No Such Thing by John Mayer. That is maybe a few years old, that song.

Is it better to knock down the house and start w/new format from day 1 or better to slowly blend into a different direction?
There seems to be pros/cons for either, I can't recall ratings success or decrease since....
 
This Old(ies) House

It was no secret that HTT was changing direction and target demo but essentially made this transition over several months... Is it better to knock down the house and start w/new format from day 1 or better to slowly blend into a different direction? There seems to be pros/cons for either, I can't recall ratings success or decrease since.

Ya gotta love "home improvement" metaphors! Nice work x13th.

Now if we could only roll a few seconds of Mellencamp's "When The Walls Come Tumbling Down" or Parliament's "Tear The Roof Off The Sucker."

Oldies stations all across America have transitioned to "new oldies" or some form of classic based AC. From what I've read, it seems the 80's are the new 60's. But many oldies stations have progressed beyond adding a few dozen 80's hits and dropping a corresponding number of 60's hits.

Some oldies stations flipped the switch and made a clean break. WHTT seems to have done the opposite, transitioning with music from the 70's, 80's and apparently the 90's and new millenium too. It's probably going to take some time to find out how the transition shakes out.

It seems to me it's easier on the programming and sales staff to make a clean break than to transition. It may be easier on the listeners too, because one day they're listening to Elvis and the Stones, the next day they're listening to Madonna and Matchbox 20. If the Oldies core doesn't like it (and they often don't), they're gone. But it appears Women not only accept, but enjoy the variety and breadth of female-based hits.

Transitioning over several months seems like a protracted and calculated process, evolving day by day and requiring precise planning and projection. The station has to know (or at least have a good idea) where it's going to be next week, next month and six months from now.

It appears Buffalo now has five AC stations: WYRK, WJYE, WBUF, WTSS and WHTT. The new WHTT has a lot of estrogen, from its website to the music and presentation. It appears WHTT will battle WJYE and WTSS for Women 35-54 more than the other three stations. Then again, a scan of WHTT shows Shania Twain, Kelly Clarkson and Faith Hill turning up in regular rotation.

Phew! Barry White to Matchbox 20 to Shania Twain. That almost out-Jack's Jack!
 
Barry White to Matchbox 20 to Shania Twain. That almost out-Jack's Jack!

It may just be their strategy to get women with a jack-like variety of music, but here's something worth considering that flies in the face of the "50+ is a worthless demo" theory:

from Radio & Records 03-09-07 said:
Radio's Lost Generations
LOS ANGELES — Advertisers and ad agencies are missing the boat on a great source of cash flow: the baby boomers. Particularly people 56 and older, who are left out of ad buys because they are perceived as being stuck in their buying habits. But that's a big mistake, agreed all the panelists at yesterday's opening roundtable session at R&R Talk Radio Seminar 2007 in Los Angeles
.

-9-
 
It's true-9! We recently moved into a 55+ active adult community just South of Charlotte, NC and you would not believe the money people are putting into upgrades in their new homes...plantation blinds at every window, faux painting on the walls, new furnishings, expensive custom made drapes, tiled screened porches and patios.

Add to that, many of these folks are driving their late model cars while going out to dinner several nights a week and you get the picture--these Senior Citizens seem to have plenty of spending power!
 
Checking Out the Kitchen

The "remodel" vs. "rebuild" approach depends on whether you're trying to hang onto a core audience that may accept the new format.

WHTT had decent female numbers with Oldies. Yes, they were upper demos, but at least they were a place to work from. The new sound, despite the "girlie" colors of the website, doesn't seem like it's totally wimped out. I haven't heard Celine Dion - yet - so WHTT might hang onto more male numbers than might otherwise be expected.

Another factor is that the Oldies audience really has nowhere to go. WHTT is still playing a pinch of '60s and a scoop of '70s along with their '80s core music and venture into the singer/songwriter & pop genres of the '90s and '00s. (And yes, I know that I've just added a cooking metaphor to the "mix". Talk about "mixed metaphors".)

Personally, most of the music I hear on WHTT doesn't sound out of place to me. In fact, I'm more likely to punch the button over a disco song from the '80s than a John Mayer/Sheryl Crow/Natalie Merchant/Matchbox 20 song of much newer vintage. A lot of the newer songs are familiar because I heard them on the background music stations in stores and businesses, or sought the artists out because they appeared with classic artists that I like (John Mayer with Paul Simon, Rob Thomas with Santana). Nobody is playing their "old" music, although I seem to hear more '68-'72 pop on 97-Rock these days, and my button finger drifts over to The Lake a little more often. I also spend more time listening to Blues on WBFO on the weekend.

Blowing up a station is the only viable option if you want to blow out an unwanted audience. There isn't much audience recycle if you're flipping from Oldies to CHR-Urban. You've got to take the house down, replace the foundation, and start from scratch.

WHTT had the bones of a pretty good house. They decided to put in a new kitchen and bath, knock out some walls to create a Great Room, replace the windows, re-side, and add a new deck. Younger people are moving in.

There. Now I'm back to the "Home Improvement" metaphor - except that WHTT can't add "more power".
 
It's true-9! We recently moved into a 55+ active adult community just South of Charlotte, NC and you would not believe the money people are putting into upgrades in their new homes...plantation blinds at every window, faux painting on the walls, new furnishings, expensive custom made drapes, tiled screened porches and patios.

Damn! Uncle Oskie, Aunt Helen, Cousin Bruce, Aunt Minnie, Willie the Tagger, Spacklin' Dave, the Fartucci Twins and I could make a killing down there!

Add to that, many of these folks are driving their late model cars while going out to dinner several nights a week and you get the picture--these Senior Citizens seem to have plenty of spending power!

But seriously. We live in an ageist society. "Thin, young and beautiful" is the rage. Same as it ever was. When we were 30, we just didn't know it.

It seems the ideal age to advertsiers is 39-49. Husbands and wives begin to amass a few bucks, the kids are nearly grown, life's good. After 50, gravity begins taking its toll on men and women. I pay as much attention to the commercials on the nightly news as I do the news. Commercials for Ambien, arthritis, blood pressure, psychotropic medications and E-D potions abound. It's almost embarrassing.

Much as I like music from the 50s, 60s and 70s, I sometimes wonder why men and women who are 50+ so staunchly gravitate toward Oldies. It's as if music stopped at 1978. I like U-2, the Police, Aerosmith and some of the music from John Mayer, Nora Jones, Christina Aguilera, Dave Matthews, Bare Naked Ladies and other groups that have had hits in the 90's and within the last few years. Just as much as the music, I like the ATTITUDES of some of these bands, singers and groups.

It's weird. He's older that dust, but one of Uncle Oskie's favorite songs is "Unskinny Bop" by Poison. Go figure.

As I write, I'm listening to My Back Pages by the Byrds. The next songs up will be Radioactive by the Firm, Take Me To The River by Talking Heads and Bernadette by the Four Tops.

About three months ago, I was at a small dinner get-together where this 57 year old women starts in about how she loves oldies (music), how wonderful Elvis was and how bad music is these days. She made me wanna puke. If she only knew how OLD she sounded, like our parents who couldn't understand the Beatles. I wanted to tell her Elvis died "ass-up in his bathroom," but that would have been unduly cruel and would've disrespected The King.

Yet, there she was in her stirup stretch pants, looking like she ate half a cow and crowing LOUDLY about how great the sixties were. Even though I'm not his biggest fan, I said Kanye West is every bit as creative as Paul McCartney. Y'know what she says? "I never liked the Beatles." As if THAT was the definitive rebuttal to my statement. "Yeah, you were probably a big fan of the Monkees, Freddie and the Dreamers and Herman's Hermits," I subtly derided. "Ooooo," she damn near squealed, "I lovvved the Monkees."

Gee, why am I not surprised?

I poured another very cold Blue Lite and walked to the other room, where guys were talking about snowmobiles, telling jokes about Dubya and Cheney and watching the Sabres game. Meanwhile, I'm checking out the crown molding and wallpaper scheme of the room, knowing the home-owner did the job himself... and a damn fine job at that.

Some guy asks me about sixties bands and for kicks, I bring up Psychotic Reaction by Count Five, Let It All Hang Out by the Hombres and the 13th Floor Elevators who had a cup of coffee with a song called "You're Gonna Miss Me When I'm Gone," which was used few months back in a computer commercial.

Another guy, who's had too many Genny's bets me I can't name the group that did Bread & Butter. "Newbeats," I deadpan in about half a second, adding, "is that the best you can do?" I'm kinda torqued by the the fat lady in stirup pants' 'tude, so I'm loaded for bear with the guys in this room, but I'm staying low key and fuzzy.

"How 'bout White Rabit?" some guy says. "Are you kidding me?" I reply. "Jefferson AIRplane." I'm ready to have some fun, "OK," I say, "who did Respect before Aretha had a hit with it?"

Blank faces.

"Here's a clue... it was a guy... and he WROTE the song... and he had a hit with another song about watching the tide roll away..."

"James Brown?"

Wahuh??!

"Otis Redding," I say, in a low key tone. Nobody likes a smart ass know it all. I don't wanna get too heady here... these guys know me as a house painter more than an ex-radio guy.

Another guy brings up Motown and the conversation is off to the races... I head back to the kitchen for another Blue. Women are talking about color schemes, wallpaper and kitchen cabinets. And Ms. Stirup-pants-Monkees-lover is crowing about her new bathroom, on which one of our competitors underbid us. I just hope they re-inforced the underlay beneath the toilet, but I know they didn't. Ms. Monkees Lover could be in for a surprise when she sits down some day... kinda like The King.
 
Call Me Sherlock said:
Add to that, many of these folks are driving their late model cars while going out to dinner several nights a week and you get the picture--these Senior Citizens seem to have plenty of spending power!

Very true. The 55+ audience is underserved and under appreciated. As soon as the radio and paper ads for my place of work come out, they respond IMMEDIATELY.

The problem, IMHO, is that today's ad exec. and radio salesperson wants easy sales. They don't want to put the time, effort, or much money into chasing that demographic. Which in a roundabout way is the reason WHTT is now leaning AC and not oldies.
 
Much as I like music from the 50s, 60s and 70s, I sometimes wonder why men and women who are 50+ so staunchly gravitate toward Oldies.

People like classic rock, oldies and classic hits because it's the music they grew up with. Simple as that. The Wonder Years.
 
LOS ANGELES — Advertisers and ad agencies are missing the boat on a great source of cash flow: the baby boomers. Particularly people 56 and older, who are left out of ad buys because they are perceived as being stuck in their buying habits. But that's a big mistake, agreed all the panelists at yesterday's opening roundtable session at R&R Talk Radio Seminar 2007 in Los Angeles.

As much as I hate the whole concept of going after one generation and then disregarding them 10-15 years late(when they start to get old), that's probably the way it will remain. However, the above quote makes you wonder if would not be wise to serve the 50+ audience on secondary signal stations in markets such as ours. Here in Rochester, it would be good for the future owners of Fickle or The Zone to switch to some kind of 50s/60s/70s format and get some of those baby boomers. Not a bad idea for The Lake either(except Entercom's David Field hates oldies).
 
Oldies 107.7?

raymond_shaw said:
Not a bad idea for The Lake either(except Entercom's David Field hates oldies).

David Field hates oldies? But loves The Lake? Let's see, in the 10AM hour today, The Lake played (among others):

Buffalo Springfield - Mr. Soul
Rolling Stones - Gimme Shelter
John Lennon - (Just Like) Starting Over
Jackson Browne - These Days
Hollies - Long Cool Woman (In a Black Dress)
The Troggs - Wild Thing
Marvin Gaye - Let's Get It On
The Kinks - You Really Got Me

OK, so John Lennon was a "retro-oldie" when it was released, and Jackson Browne was an obscurity for most people, but that's a pretty solid list of "oldies" for an hour's worth of music. And, that's a lot of "hits" for a "deep cuts" station.

It seems to me that The Lake wasn't this accessible previously, or skewed this old. It sounds to me like they're gunning for the audience that WHTT has largely abandoned. I wonder if that's Hank Dole's idea, or if that's an edict that came down from above?
 
Almost by accident, The Lake seems to have found its niche. All it took was a station blowing up its old format.

Buffalo Springfield - Mr. Soul
Rolling Stones - Gimme Shelter
John Lennon - (Just Like) Starting Over
Jackson Browne - These Days
Hollies - Long Cool Woman (In a Black Dress)
The Troggs - Wild Thing
Marvin Gaye - Let's Get It On
The Kinks - You Really Got Me


That entire set squarely hits the 50-64 year old male demo and there's nothing there to scare away many women, either. Classic Hits 107.7?
 
Interesting about The Lake. I tuned in on Thursday for the first time in a long time and I did notice that the cuts were a lot more familiar. I thought I just caught them at a good time! ;D
 
David Field hates oldies?

Well, to clarify, I meant the Oldies format - which includes songs like Bread & Butter, Sugar, Sugar and so many others. But...

Buffalo Springfield - Mr. Soul
Rolling Stones - Gimme Shelter
John Lennon - (Just Like) Starting Over
Jackson Browne - These Days
Hollies - Long Cool Woman (In a Black Dress)
The Troggs - Wild Thing
Marvin Gaye - Let's Get It On
The Kinks - You Really Got Me

That's pretty good to know. Yeah, with The Lake's crazy signal that comes into Buffalo & Rochester, but not well in either city, they should go after a niche audience - and the now forgotten baby boomers are just that audience.

I still wish they'd get rid of their imaging. Those water sfx really get annoying after a couple years.
 
I still wish they'd get rid of their imaging. Those water sfx really get annoying after a couple years.

That's an understatement! The imaging became annoying within six months. After that, it became a peculiar, predictable parody. The Lake should get another imaging voice and scrap their current birds, crickets and water pouring into a pail. I'm not saying they need some big voice bumper guy or lazer flashes. That would only make the Lake sound like 97 Rock.

Why not find a believable and enthusiastic sounding guy or woman who has a good presence and have him/her re-do all the imaging, using phrases that are unique. Sell the advantages of the station: wide array of music, depth of album cuts, classic from the 60's and 70's. How hard would it be? And while they're at it, give the Lake Guides more lattitude to front and/or back-sell songs and scrap the mandatory artist sketches. They've become as tiresome as the crickets.

The Lake signal still leaves a lot to be desired, but it can be a sought after signal if listeners learn to understand station offers music that's not heard on 97 Rock and no longer offered by WHTT. It's all about differentiation.

The Lake could add some shares to its 12+ and 25-54 Persons with a little tweaking and refreshing its imaging.

-9-
 
Doh-L!

So, what you're saying is that you want The Lake to sound like a RADIO STATION.

You've just sent a shudder down Hank Dole's spine. He will now commence an incense-and-peppermint-fueled exorcism over at Corporate Parkway.
 
To me if I like a song I don't care if it came out yesterday or 60 years ago.

What I don't like are the guy groups today that sound like they are groaning instead of singing. I can't think of a more current example but Hootie and the Blowfish come to mind.

"World" by Five for Fighting got allot of play on the CBS TV show "Jericho" but radio won't touch it. I love the song and bought it on iTunes.

While I like songs from my formative years I also like Jimmy Dorsey's "Star Eyes" which I pulled out of my parents record collection. No I don't recall them playing it. It was done way before my time.

My 18 year old daughter likes Brenda Lee and Lesley Gore. I better tell her she's not supposed to, it's not cool.

But then neither one of us cares about that, we like what we like.

Music is not disposable. Good music is a matter of opinion.
 
"World" is a great song, but radio is not ignoring it. According to Mediabase over 100 stations are on it, including Buffalo's own WTSS.
 
NeedsMoreCowbell said:
"World" is a great song, but radio is not ignoring it. According to Mediabase over 100 stations are on it, including Buffalo's own WTSS.

Glad to hear that. I hope the song becomes a big hit. One thng for sure, it fits the show very well.
 
The Lake

So, what you're saying is that you want The Lake to sound like a RADIO STATION.

I realize that may be far fetched, but yes. Afterall, these little outposts between 88.1 and 107.9 are called "radio stations," no?

It's always amazed me how some programmers try to make radio something it's not. From my experience, listeners expect radio stations to sound like, uh, well, RADIO STATIONS. It's not called an "iPod station," "cassette station," "CD station" or "mp3 station."

If you have an official document which authorizes the emission of RF energy on the FM or AM band, then you have a RADIO STATION. Give listeners some semblence of entertainment that they've come to expect when they press the "on" button and scan the band.

-9-
 
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