BMI is spamming the Part 15 station list

[westlife]

I just got an e-mail from "Jeff Syracuse" at BMI, with the subject line "BMI's Part 15 Public Performance license for WKTW-AM 1500".

Hmmmm, that's a bit strange, because first of all, I haven't operated any kind of low-power broadcast transmitter on 1500 kHz AM in YEARS. And secondly, the ONLY place where I ever gave this "station" the faux call letters "WKTW" was on JBS's <a target="_blank" href=http://home.att.net/~weatheradio/part15.htm>Master List of Part 15 Radio Stations of North America</a>.

So, if you have a Part 15 station on that list with a link to your web site and/or e-mail address, expect to get an e-mail from BMI, regardless if you have ever actually operated that station or not.

Here's the text of the e-mail I got:

Hello Kevin -

I'm writing to introduce BMI's Part 15 public performance license, recently developed for this group of very low power stations. In response to this growing community of radio operators' desire to license their stations for public performances, BMI developed this license specifically for Part 15 stations that assures your complete compliance with US Copyright Laws. The license is attached here for your review. Please give me a call or email at your earliest convenience and we can discuss it in more detail.

On behalf of BMI's affiliated songwriters, composers, and publishers, thanks for playing BMI music!

Best Regards,

Jeff
Account Manager, Eastern Division
BMI Media Licensing
10 Music Square East
Nashville, TN 37203

The e-mail also included phone and fax numbers, but for Jeff's sake I'll omit those, as well as his personal e-mail address.

And here's the nifty PDF file that came attached to Jeff's e-mail:
<a target="_blank" href=http://mysite.verizon.net/tekel/part_15_radio_license.pdf>http://mysite.verizon.net/tekel/part_15_radio_license.pdf</a>

<P ID="signature">______________

"This is the New York Emergency Broadcast System satellite channel. They took the crosstown bus."</P>

 

[WCWalker]

THIS IS A MAJOR PROBLEM

***One of my transmitter customers just contacted me to let me know he too was contacted by BMI for the same reason. Unfortunately, my customer chose to turn his station dark in order to avoid paying BMI.

Based upon research I've done I don't see how BMI can legally come after part 15 stations for fees to play their music. The deal they set with Congress was for licensed stations ONLY to pay these fees and nothing was mentioned about unlicensed broadcasters. Dick Fry's statement on this subject in an earlier post seems to support this theory.

A plan of action must be developed to put a stop to BMI otherwise the entire hobby sector of the industry is in peril. Clearly the only way to put a stop to this is by some kind of class action lawsuit that shows they don't have a legal right to come after these stations.

Any lawyers want to tackle this one?



> I just got an e-mail from "Jeff Syracuse" at BMI, with the
> subject line "BMI's Part 15 Public Performance license for
> WKTW-AM 1500".
>
> Hmmmm, that's a bit strange, because first of all, I haven't
> operated any kind of low-power broadcast transmitter on 1500
> kHz AM in YEARS. And secondly, the ONLY place where I ever
> gave this "station" the faux call letters "WKTW" was on
> JBS's Master List of Part 15 Radio Stations of North
> America.
>
> So, if you have a Part 15 station on that list with a link
> to your web site and/or e-mail address, expect to get an
> e-mail from BMI, regardless if you have ever actually
> operated that station or not.
>
> Here's the text of the e-mail I got:
>
> Hello Kevin -
>
> I'm writing to introduce BMI's Part 15 public performance
> license, recently developed for this group of very low power
> stations. In response to this growing community of radio
> operators' desire to license their stations for public
> performances, BMI developed this license specifically for
> Part 15 stations that assures your complete compliance with
> US Copyright Laws. The license is attached here for your
> review. Please give me a call or email at your earliest
> convenience and we can discuss it in more detail.
>
> On behalf of BMI's affiliated songwriters, composers, and
> publishers, thanks for playing BMI music!
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Jeff
> Account Manager, Eastern Division
> BMI Media Licensing
> 10 Music Square East
> Nashville, TN 37203
>
> The e-mail also included phone and fax numbers, but for
> Jeff's sake I'll omit those, as well as his personal e-mail
> address.
>
> And here's the nifty PDF file that came attached to Jeff's
> e-mail:
> http://mysite.verizon.net/tekel/part_15_radio_license.pdf
>

 

[JasonW]

Re: THIS IS A MAJOR PROBLEM

Agreed. I'm not a lawyer, but I wonder if ASCAP could be/should be included as well (as a pre-emptive measure)? -- JasonW

> ***One of my transmitter customers just contacted me to let
> me know he too was contacted by BMI for the same reason.
> Unfortunately, my customer chose to turn his station dark in
> order to avoid paying BMI.
>
> Based upon research I've done I don't see how BMI can
> legally come after part 15 stations for fees to play their
> music. The deal they set with Congress was for licensed
> stations ONLY to pay these fees and nothing was mentioned
> about unlicensed broadcasters. Dick Fry's statement on this
> subject in an earlier post seems to support this theory.
>
> A plan of action must be developed to put a stop to BMI
> otherwise the entire hobby sector of the industry is in
> peril. Clearly the only way to put a stop to this is by
> some kind of class action lawsuit that shows they don't have
> a legal right to come after these stations.
>
> Any lawyers want to tackle this one?
>
>
>
> > I just got an e-mail from "Jeff Syracuse" at BMI, with the
>
> > subject line "BMI's Part 15 Public Performance license for
>
> > WKTW-AM 1500".
> >
> > Hmmmm, that's a bit strange, because first of all, I
> haven't
> > operated any kind of low-power broadcast transmitter on
> 1500
> > kHz AM in YEARS. And secondly, the ONLY place where I
> ever
> > gave this "station" the faux call letters "WKTW" was on
> > JBS's Master List of Part 15 Radio Stations of North
> > America.
> >
> > So, if you have a Part 15 station on that list with a link
>
> > to your web site and/or e-mail address, expect to get an
> > e-mail from BMI, regardless if you have ever actually
> > operated that station or not.
> >
> > Here's the text of the e-mail I got:
> >
> > Hello Kevin -
> >
> > I'm writing to introduce BMI's Part 15 public performance
> > license, recently developed for this group of very low
> power
> > stations. In response to this growing community of radio
> > operators' desire to license their stations for public
> > performances, BMI developed this license specifically for
> > Part 15 stations that assures your complete compliance
> with
> > US Copyright Laws. The license is attached here for your
> > review. Please give me a call or email at your earliest
> > convenience and we can discuss it in more detail.
> >
> > On behalf of BMI's affiliated songwriters, composers, and
> > publishers, thanks for playing BMI music!
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > Jeff
> > Account Manager, Eastern Division
> > BMI Media Licensing
> > 10 Music Square East
> > Nashville, TN 37203
> >
> > The e-mail also included phone and fax numbers, but for
> > Jeff's sake I'll omit those, as well as his personal
> e-mail
> > address.
> >
> > And here's the nifty PDF file that came attached to Jeff's
>
> > e-mail:
> > http://mysite.verizon.net/tekel/part_15_radio_license.pdf
> >
>

 

[dickfry]

Re: THIS IS A MAJOR PROBLEM

> Agreed. I'm not a lawyer, but I wonder if ASCAP could
> be/should be included as well (as a pre-emptive measure)?
> -- JasonW

The real world answer is to make it economically unattractive for BMI/ASCAP/SESAC to bother with Part 15 at all. At $200 a year per paying victim, it would take the annual fees from 300 Part 15 stations for them to BEGIN a lawsuit against one or more of us.

Once they've surmised the rather tiny size of the potential market in Part 15, they will be forced to rely entirely on indimidation and spam to get money out of us.

The current billing campaign is undoubtedly just the BMI way of getting a feel for how much potential there is in Part 15. I'm pretty certain that they will find it is a lot less income than the price of just one lawsuit each year.

Any outfit so damnably cheap that they can't even bother buy stamps and mail letters certainly isn't going to spend money following up on a bloody spammed invoice sent to an address they found in a directory.

Send them money if it makes you feel good. Otherwise, just ignore them the way you ignore other fraudulent invoices that come your way. Some of the biggest crooks still on the hoof do their work from office buildings, not trailers.

Also, feel free to post the e-mail addresses from spammers at places like this so they can get lots of helpful information from thousands of like-minded people worldwide. Seems like the right thing to do.


-Big Dick

 

[Ed_Walker]

Re: THIS IS A MAJOR PROBLEM

> Based upon research I've done I don't see how BMI can
> legally come after part 15 stations for fees to play their
> music. The deal they set with Congress was for licensed
> stations ONLY to pay these fees and nothing was mentioned
> about unlicensed broadcasters. Dick Fry's statement on this
> subject in an earlier post seems to support this theory.

As I pointed out in the earlier thread, BMI owns the rights to
the music and can charge anything they want for its use.

Just because unlicensed broadcasters were not mentioned in the
congressional deal you mentioned, it doesn't mean they can't
collect fees.

They do collect from many other users of music far beyond
licensed broadcasters.

Again, they own the rights. You and I don't. Its a new era in
rights management with the internet and everything else.

 

[Desert_Ear]

Re: THIS IS A MAJOR PROBLEM

> As I pointed out in the earlier thread, BMI owns the rights
> to > the music and can charge anything they want for its use.

True, but which music? Specifically, what song titles? Which Part 15 stations are playing BMI's music? BMI isn't the publisher of every song that was ever written!

As I've suggested before:

If you are contacted, simply ask them for a list of their artists/clients, telling them that when you receive it you'll be happy to abide with copyright laws by deleting their songs from your playlist. End of discussion.

This is exactly what I would do.

DE

 

[WCWalker]

Re: THIS IS A MAJOR PROBLEM

***I firmly believe that BMI's actions are politically motived. I would not be surprised if the NAB is behind this "sudden" interest in part 15 stations by BMI.

If BMI does not have a legal right to collect these fees then why should a part 15 station pay up? I can honestly see a legitimate reason to collect the fee from Commercial or professional Non Profit part 15 stations. But for these kids that play their station part time as a hobby or the adult that likes to just play some music for the neighborhood I can't see it.

Why doesn't BMI go after all the private parties that are playing music to large masses of people?

Example:

When I turned 18 I found a large surprise party had been set up by my friends in my home. There was a full keg (legal age to drink in 1981 was 18) and about 50 people in my house. Naturally my stereo was playing and each of the 50 or so people could hear the music. I didn't have to pay a fee to BMI for the party.

My high school graduating class held an even larger party on private land and hired a local band to play for the 500 people in my graduating class plus several hundred more people that chose to attend. The party was so loud that you could hear the band up to nearly half a mile away that night! Why didn't BMI charge our class for the music we played off of tapes and records prior to the live entertainment?

How many high schools play music over the PA system prior to the start of a football or basketball game? Does BMI contact EVERY school in America in an attempt to get them to pay for playing music prior to or during and after a game? Not likely.




> > As I pointed out in the earlier thread, BMI owns the
> rights
> > to > the music and can charge anything they want for its
> use.
>
> True, but which music? Specifically, what song titles? Which
> Part 15 stations are playing BMI's music? BMI isn't the
> publisher of every song that was ever written!
>
> As I've suggested before:
>
> If you are contacted, simply ask them for a list of their
> artists/clients, telling them that when you receive it
> you'll be happy to abide with copyright laws by deleting
> their songs from your playlist. End of discussion.
>
> This is exactly what I would do.
>
> DE
>

 

[JasonW]

Re: THIS IS A MAJOR PROBLEM

Well...you can never know for sure. A late friend of mine once played the organ in a bar in Miami, back in the late 1970s. One night a regular customer sang one song while my friend played.

A few days later the bar owner was hit up by ASCAP for a fee (one of their roving agents was in the bar that night) because the bar didn't have a cabaret license, which covers singing copyrighted works before audiences. Yes, in some places you literally must have a license to sing! -- JasonW

> ***I firmly believe that BMI's actions are politically
> motived. I would not be surprised if the NAB is behind this
> "sudden" interest in part 15 stations by BMI.
>
> If BMI does not have a legal right to collect these fees
> then why should a part 15 station pay up? I can honestly
> see a legitimate reason to collect the fee from Commercial
> or professional Non Profit part 15 stations. But for these
> kids that play their station part time as a hobby or the
> adult that likes to just play some music for the
> neighborhood I can't see it.
>
> Why doesn't BMI go after all the private parties that are
> playing music to large masses of people?
>
> Example:
>
> When I turned 18 I found a large surprise party had been set
> up by my friends in my home. There was a full keg (legal
> age to drink in 1981 was 18) and about 50 people in my
> house. Naturally my stereo was playing and each of the 50
> or so people could hear the music. I didn't have to pay a
> fee to BMI for the party.
>
> My high school graduating class held an even larger party on
> private land and hired a local band to play for the 500
> people in my graduating class plus several hundred more
> people that chose to attend. The party was so loud that you
> could hear the band up to nearly half a mile away that
> night! Why didn't BMI charge our class for the music we
> played off of tapes and records prior to the live
> entertainment?
>
> How many high schools play music over the PA system prior to
> the start of a football or basketball game? Does BMI
> contact EVERY school in America in an attempt to get them to
> pay for playing music prior to or during and after a game?
> Not likely.
>
>
>
>
> > > As I pointed out in the earlier thread, BMI owns the
> > rights
> > > to > the music and can charge anything they want for its
>
> > use.
> >
> > True, but which music? Specifically, what song titles?
> Which
> > Part 15 stations are playing BMI's music? BMI isn't the
> > publisher of every song that was ever written!
> >
> > As I've suggested before:
> >
> > If you are contacted, simply ask them for a list of their
> > artists/clients, telling them that when you receive it
> > you'll be happy to abide with copyright laws by deleting
> > their songs from your playlist. End of discussion.
> >
> > This is exactly what I would do.
> >
> > DE
> >
>

 

[Ed_Walker]

Re: THIS IS A MAJOR PROBLEM

> > As I pointed out in the earlier thread, BMI owns the
> rights
> > to > the music and can charge anything they want for its
> use.
>
> True, but which music? Specifically, what song titles? Which
> Part 15 stations are playing BMI's music? BMI isn't the
> publisher of every song that was ever written!
>

BMI doesn't publish music. BMI represents the writers and publishers of a large majority of music and can sue for unauthorized performances.

Other major organizations are ASCAP and SESAC.

Its up to you to determine the licensing organization of the music you play; most often this is printed on the label or packaging of CDs. Sometimes not.
But playing something that isn't marked with any licensing organization is playing Russian roulette.

If they have the interest in your operation - and you play the wrong title without an agreement, they can sue. Case closed.

 

[Ed_Walker]

Re: THIS IS A MAJOR PROBLEM

> If BMI does not have a legal right to collect these fees
> then why should a part 15 station pay up?

You're missing the point: they do have a legal right.

The agreement covering rates for commercial, licensed broadcast
stations covered exactly that. It in no way implied that use by
unlicensed operations or anybody else had a free ride. It simply
means that the government is not regulating the rates for anything
beyond licensed broadcast stations.

> But for these kids that play their station part time as a hobby or the
> adult that likes to just play some music for the neighborhood I can't see it.

I agree entirely. However, BMI can do what they want. A public performance
is a public performance.

> Why doesn't BMI go after all the private parties that are
> playing music to large masses of people?

Depending on the circumstances, they can - if they wanted.

I would guess its not cost-effective to enforce all the rights they have as a licensing organization. And I'd question cost-effectiveness of Part 15 enforcement. I'd say if you've got a Part 15 station and you advertise or are on a list anywhere (like here), you're drawing attention to yourself from BMI.

I'm not an attorney - just thinking reality...

 

[radiomike]

BMI/ASCAP/SESAC

The Big three have been collecting money from part 15 broadcasters for years. Carrier Current, Leaky cable, and other part 15 stations, including AM at schools. College stations have had to pay for years. These companies do and can collect fees for use of the music from the artists they represent. You can expect that if BMI is doing this, ASCAP and SESAC will soon follow. The alternative, I'm afraid, is going to court.

 

[radiomike]

Re: THIS IS A MAJOR PROBLEM

> Why doesn't BMI go after all the private parties that are
> playing music to large masses of people?

It was a private party...Not an issue at your home.

>
> My high school graduating class held an even larger party on
> private land and hired a local band to play for the 500
> people in my graduating class plus several hundred more
> people that chose to attend. The party was so loud that you
> could hear the band up to nearly half a mile away that
> night! Why didn't BMI charge our class for the music we
> played off of tapes and records prior to the live
> entertainment?

This is in nether territory..It could have fallen under the school's music use.


> How many high schools play music over the PA system prior to
> the start of a football or basketball game? Does BMI
> contact EVERY school in America in an attempt to get them to
> pay for playing music prior to or during and after a game?
> Not likely.

Schools have agreements for use of music at their institutions. This use is usually covered in their agreements.

 

[SamBuca]

Re: THIS IS A MAJOR PROBLEM

> Based upon research I've done I don't see how BMI can
> legally come after part 15 stations for fees to play their
> music. The deal they set with Congress was for licensed
> stations ONLY to pay these fees and nothing was mentioned
> about unlicensed broadcasters. Dick Fry's statement on this
> subject in an earlier post seems to support this theory.

I don't see WHY bmi would come after anyone. Radio = free advertising for the labels. At their own expense.

Here's an idea...instead of payola, why not just get rid of the fees? Convince stations to pick up your tracks by not taxing them to death. It's legal, too.<P ID="signature">______________
</P>

 

[Ed_Walker]

Re: THIS IS A MAJOR PROBLEM

> I don't see WHY bmi would come after anyone. Radio = free
> advertising for the labels. At their own expense.
>
> Here's an idea...instead of payola, why not just get rid of
> the fees? Convince stations to pick up your tracks by not
> taxing them to death. It's legal, too.

The problem with this equation is that BMI represents songwriters,
not labels. The writers of songs are not neccessarily the performers.

I suppose the argument could be made that the record labels pay the BMI
fees to help sell their CDs...but I can't see them in the mood for that
with the RIAA fees webcasters are forced to pay to use their recordings
(on top of BMI/ASCAP, etc.)

 

[JeremyAndrews]

Re: THIS IS A MAJOR PROBLEM

> > > As I pointed out in the earlier thread, BMI owns the
> > rights
> > > to > the music and can charge anything they want for its
>
> > use.
> >
> > True, but which music? Specifically, what song titles?
> Which
> > Part 15 stations are playing BMI's music? BMI isn't the
> > publisher of every song that was ever written!
> >
>
> BMI doesn't publish music. BMI represents the writers and
> publishers of a large majority of music and can sue for
> unauthorized performances.
>
> Other major organizations are ASCAP and SESAC.
>
> Its up to you to determine the licensing organization of the
> music you play; most often this is printed on the label or
> packaging of CDs. Sometimes not.
> But playing something that isn't marked with any licensing
> organization is playing Russian roulette.
>
> If they have the interest in your operation - and you play
> the wrong title without an agreement, they can sue. Case
> closed.
>
So if I sing Happy Birthday at a restaurant I'll get sued by the BMI? They own it.<P ID="signature">______________

AIM: JeremyA1069</P>

 

[radiopilot]

Re: THIS IS A MAJOR PROBLEM

> > > > As I pointed out in the earlier thread, BMI owns the
> > > rights
> > > > to > the music and can charge anything they want for
> its
> >
> > > use.
> > >
> > > True, but which music? Specifically, what song titles?
> > Which
> > > Part 15 stations are playing BMI's music? BMI isn't the
> > > publisher of every song that was ever written!
> > >
> >
> > BMI doesn't publish music. BMI represents the writers and
>
> > publishers of a large majority of music and can sue for
> > unauthorized performances.
> >
> > Other major organizations are ASCAP and SESAC.
> >
> > Its up to you to determine the licensing organization of
> the
> > music you play; most often this is printed on the label or
>
> > packaging of CDs. Sometimes not.
> > But playing something that isn't marked with any licensing
>
> > organization is playing Russian roulette.
> >
> > If they have the interest in your operation - and you play
>
> > the wrong title without an agreement, they can sue. Case
> > closed.
> >
> So if I sing Happy Birthday at a restaurant I'll get sued by
> the BMI? They own it.
>


That is a correct statement, read the link....

http://www.unhappybirthday.com/


Radiopilot

 

[oldies1077]

Re: BMI/ASCAP/SESAC

Well,

I don't own any real property that they can put liens on. They can try to sue me for my social security check, but good luck collecting. I'm not turning a profit, heck i'm paying out to upkeep the equipment and the electric bills. this is purely a hobby.

Let the big 3 choke on that for awhile.

hahahahahah


> The Big three have been collecting money from part 15
> broadcasters for years. Carrier Current, Leaky cable, and
> other part 15 stations, including AM at schools. College
> stations have had to pay for years. These companies do and
> can collect fees for use of the music from the artists they
> represent. You can expect that if BMI is doing this, ASCAP
> and SESAC will soon follow. The alternative, I'm afraid, is
> going to court.
> <P ID="signature">______________
Oldies 1610 AM Stereo

"Proud User of Chris Cuff's Alfredo Lite 100mw"

http://www.part15.us
Largest Part 15 Website in the World</P>

 

[wikhradio]

I think that, for Part 15, the rate should be adjustable, and not a flat 200 dollars. I think that, for the part 15's making money, that would be FINE, but what about the Part 15's that make NOTHING, or LOSE money on their "fun"? I think that that rate should be cut in half, or a bit more, depending on the area covered, as well as if they make anything.

Even though I don't think Part 15 should be covered with music licensing, I think if they just HAVE to collect from Part 15'ers, some sort of "cheaper" licensing should be offered.

Just my 2 cents.

> I just got an e-mail from "Jeff Syracuse" at BMI, with the
> subject line "BMI's Part 15 Public Performance license for
> WKTW-AM 1500".
>
> Hmmmm, that's a bit strange, because first of all, I haven't
> operated any kind of low-power broadcast transmitter on 1500
> kHz AM in YEARS. And secondly, the ONLY place where I ever
> gave this "station" the faux call letters "WKTW" was on
> JBS's Master List of Part 15 Radio Stations of North
> America.
>
> So, if you have a Part 15 station on that list with a link
> to your web site and/or e-mail address, expect to get an
> e-mail from BMI, regardless if you have ever actually
> operated that station or not.
>
> Here's the text of the e-mail I got:
>
> Hello Kevin -
>
> I'm writing to introduce BMI's Part 15 public performance
> license, recently developed for this group of very low power
> stations. In response to this growing community of radio
> operators' desire to license their stations for public
> performances, BMI developed this license specifically for
> Part 15 stations that assures your complete compliance with
> US Copyright Laws. The license is attached here for your
> review. Please give me a call or email at your earliest
> convenience and we can discuss it in more detail.
>
> On behalf of BMI's affiliated songwriters, composers, and
> publishers, thanks for playing BMI music!
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Jeff
> Account Manager, Eastern Division
> BMI Media Licensing
> 10 Music Square East
> Nashville, TN 37203
>
> The e-mail also included phone and fax numbers, but for
> Jeff's sake I'll omit those, as well as his personal e-mail
> address.
>
> And here's the nifty PDF file that came attached to Jeff's
> e-mail:
> http://mysite.verizon.net/tekel/part_15_radio_license.pdf
>
<P ID="signature">______________


Moderator, Community Radio board</P>

 

[Ed_Walker]

> think that, for the part 15's
> making money, that would be FINE, but what about the Part
> 15's that make NOTHING, or LOSE money on their "fun"?

they're already charging those doing webcasting - whether they're
"making money" or not....

 

[wikhradio]

> > think that, for the part 15's
> > making money, that would be FINE, but what about the Part
> > 15's that make NOTHING, or LOSE money on their "fun"?
>
> they're already charging those doing webcasting - whether
> they're
> "making money" or not....
>

I am not saying they shouldn't charge SOMETHING (If I ran a non profit pt. 15, I would pay 100 dollars a year or so for licensing, that I will be willing to pay out of pocket), just not as much for people who make nothing, compared with a Part 15 that makes some money.

With webcasting, there are "co-ops" that offer licensing for DIRT CHEAP. Heck, if I didn't have dial up, I would get a stream going, with licensing through the co-ops. These co-ops offer licensing from ASCAP, BMI, and SESAC, for very very cheap. ALSO, it varies by how much is made from the stream, and how much it costs. It could be as cheap as 15-20 bucks per month to license a stream for all 3 licensors! That is pretty cheap!<P ID="signature">______________


Moderator, Community Radio board</P>