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phatdaddy
Guest
I was looking around on the BMI website regarding the cost of a license for a Part-15 station without any success. Does anybody know how much they are currently charging for a Part-15 performance license?
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hammondo
Guest
Dear Phat,
Please learn to use Google (so I sdon't have to follow you around and answer all your questions! This came from the BMI website;
I have been operating 4 stations for about 6 years and have not paid because they have not asked.
BMI Adds Part 15 Radio License
Date posted: 2005-02-18
Part 15 radio stations may be small, but that doesn't mean they don't need to worry about paying licensing fees for the music they play.
Those low-power, specialized broadcasters - many of them on the AM band, such as carrier-current college stations - can expect to hear from BMI about a new licensing arrangement under which they have access to the BMI catalog for a flat fee of $200 per year.
The licensing organization for the first time has established such a license. BMI Senior Vice President of Licensing John Shaker said the organization had received numerous requests for a license to cover public performance of music on these stations.
A spokesman told RW that most of the stations it will contact first are Part 15 AMs. "It's hard to say how many we can anticipate licensing. As you know, it is hard to track these broadcasters since they do not have to be licensed by the FCC."
BMI represents some 4.5 million songs
Please learn to use Google (so I sdon't have to follow you around and answer all your questions! This came from the BMI website;
I have been operating 4 stations for about 6 years and have not paid because they have not asked.
BMI Adds Part 15 Radio License
Date posted: 2005-02-18
Part 15 radio stations may be small, but that doesn't mean they don't need to worry about paying licensing fees for the music they play.
Those low-power, specialized broadcasters - many of them on the AM band, such as carrier-current college stations - can expect to hear from BMI about a new licensing arrangement under which they have access to the BMI catalog for a flat fee of $200 per year.
The licensing organization for the first time has established such a license. BMI Senior Vice President of Licensing John Shaker said the organization had received numerous requests for a license to cover public performance of music on these stations.
A spokesman told RW that most of the stations it will contact first are Part 15 AMs. "It's hard to say how many we can anticipate licensing. As you know, it is hard to track these broadcasters since they do not have to be licensed by the FCC."
BMI represents some 4.5 million songs
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phatdaddy
Guest
Thank you for the information. I will just enjoy my station and write them a check when they come begging.
I think you will find that BMI has dropped their demands for part 15 stations. They used to have a form available for filing, but it is no longer on their web site. According to what I have heard, they no longer want to mess with it. ASCAP never did start. HOWEVER....if you have an LPFM..yes, they want their $$. Have fun and enjoy radio, the way it used to be! 
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WCWalker
Guest
Unfortunately, BMI still wants your money. Updated news on this at www.wilw.com in the Part 15 News section.
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hammondo
Guest
Well, they'l have to catch me first. (like them, "I accidentally left off" my payment.
Their own website still had nothing 4/26.
Their own website still had nothing 4/26.
hammondo said:
If you don't sell advertising on your Part 15 station, I'd just ignore any queries you get from them--if you're not making any money from playing BMI music there are no station revenues from which they can get their cut. They could, of course, take you to court, but their legal costs would probably be greater than it would be worth to them.
-- Black Shire
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hammondo
Guest
Hey black,
The KEY WORD in your post is PROBABLY.
You said, "if you're not making any money from playing BMI music there are no station revenues..."
I've read a few dozen bmi contracts and NEVER read a word about
revenue. What is all over the c ontract is "if YOU play their stuff, YOU PAY." Educational stations must pay, correct?
The KEY WORD in your post is PROBABLY.
You said, "if you're not making any money from playing BMI music there are no station revenues..."
I've read a few dozen bmi contracts and NEVER read a word about
revenue. What is all over the c ontract is "if YOU play their stuff, YOU PAY." Educational stations must pay, correct?
hammondo said:
If the station makes no money, the only possible place their dues could come from would be the station owner's other source(s) of income, which is why I included the qualifier "probably." It is also possible that BMI might choose to sue a non-paying Part 15 station to "make an example" of it and scare the others into paying.
My only personal connection with this is an incident that involved a bar owner I know. One night his piano player sang a song, and unbeknownst to anyone there was a roving ASCAP agent in the bar that night. A few days later he received a bill from ASCAP for the performance along with an application for a caberet license to cover such performances.
A Part 15 station is in a bit of a different position in that the owner of one that doesn't sell advertising can always say, "Gee, I was just playing radio DJ to amuse myself--how was I to know that anyone else could hear it?" (If said station also streams on the internet they can't use that defense, of course.)
-- Black Shire
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hammondo
Guest
To excuses of any kind ("amuse myself" etc.) or to "no income" they would say, "we don't care. Pay up."
The source of the offenders money would matter little, even if mom and dad had to pay for juniors station.
The source of the offenders money would matter little, even if mom and dad had to pay for juniors station.
hammondo said:
If I found myself in that unenviable position and couldn't afford to pay them, I would probably ditch (or stash elsewhere) all of the station equipment and materials and deny any knowledge of such a station.
-- Black Shire
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hammondo
Guest
Unless they were already at your front door, that could work. Both bmi and ascrap have "agents" that are like private detectives that do this.
I am not condoning any illegal activity here. But, by the same token, I would think your station would have to be in a highly unique location to rack up attention. If you're in the middle of some residential area like in the "1600 block of 55th Avenue in Anywhere, USA," I highly doubt that anyone will come knocking at your door, ever. Agents would have enough trouble sorting out the difference between your Part-15 station and the half-dozen "music radiators" from Part-15 XM/Sirius and iPod modulators from the houses around you.
However, let's say your station is located directly across the street from a popular concert venue, and for extra credit, you're broadcasting music that correlates to the performers on stage. THAT could attract undesirable attention.
Of course, you could just have really bad luck and live at 1600 55th Street, and just so happen to have a BMI agent at 1602 55th Street. ;D
However, let's say your station is located directly across the street from a popular concert venue, and for extra credit, you're broadcasting music that correlates to the performers on stage. THAT could attract undesirable attention.
Of course, you could just have really bad luck and live at 1600 55th Street, and just so happen to have a BMI agent at 1602 55th Street. ;D
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kc8gpd
Guest
that is why i love my second ammendment Trespassers may find themselves on the bussiness end of a guard dog or Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson.
Trespassers may find themselves on the bussiness end of a guard dog or Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson.I'm with Philip on this one -- what's the likelihood? I live in a metro area that's had an inordinately large (for any location outside of Florida) number of pirate stations in the last 15 years, and even when some of them were of a high enough profile to get busted, you never heard anything in the news stories about potential liability to BMI or ASCAP, just the Feds. (Hell, I know half a dozen ops myself, a couple of them covering 10+ miles with their secondary signals, and none of them have ever heard a thing.) If there hasn't been a peep to these folks, with 200,000+ people inside their 50 dBu, then isn't the statistical chance just that much lower for a signal that covers maybe 200 people with any kind of appreciable strength?
As for the supposed virtues of fair play -- that angle of it won't get much sympathy from me. The recording industry prattles on about The Free Market when it suits them, and then goes and buys a couple Congressmen to set up a statutory royalty board to go to bat for their interests. Talk about your imbalance of bargaining power -- thanks to their scheming, they can charge pretty much any price they want to charge, without the chance at negotiation by the other party that you'd have in a truly free-market setting -- and then use a government that's supposed to represent ALL of us as its private desperadoes to go around hunting people down. Seeing as the great majority of us can't afford to buy into the corporate cash campaign finance system, preserving a little bit of dirty pool -- maybe not even dirty by its magnitude, just a little dusty -- is the only way ANY everyday person in society can avoid becoming a complete slave to the desires of the rich and powerful. (Incidentally, this is also why even a self-described rabid liberal like myself can see where the Reverend is coming from when it comes to armaments... you don't have to be conservative to think that government (or other private individuals) often goes too far and needs a STRONG counterbalance, like that provided by the Second Amendment. Now I'm going to go off for a snack while Homeland Security traces my IP address for sounding less-than-contented with the way things are going in this country.)
As for the supposed virtues of fair play -- that angle of it won't get much sympathy from me. The recording industry prattles on about The Free Market when it suits them, and then goes and buys a couple Congressmen to set up a statutory royalty board to go to bat for their interests. Talk about your imbalance of bargaining power -- thanks to their scheming, they can charge pretty much any price they want to charge, without the chance at negotiation by the other party that you'd have in a truly free-market setting -- and then use a government that's supposed to represent ALL of us as its private desperadoes to go around hunting people down. Seeing as the great majority of us can't afford to buy into the corporate cash campaign finance system, preserving a little bit of dirty pool -- maybe not even dirty by its magnitude, just a little dusty -- is the only way ANY everyday person in society can avoid becoming a complete slave to the desires of the rich and powerful. (Incidentally, this is also why even a self-described rabid liberal like myself can see where the Reverend is coming from when it comes to armaments... you don't have to be conservative to think that government (or other private individuals) often goes too far and needs a STRONG counterbalance, like that provided by the Second Amendment. Now I'm going to go off for a snack while Homeland Security traces my IP address for sounding less-than-contented with the way things are going in this country.
)
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Habu
Guest
So do educational or not for profit stations (Any station on the 88.1-91.9 FM band) have to pay for play with ASCAP or BMI etc... It would seem like they shouldn't but I have a feeling that even those type operators need to pay. I mean I respect the fact that the artists need to be paid.. but it seems that there are all types of revenue streams available to them (Especially now with the latest ruling on Internet streaming)
Heck... if I was a Part 15 I would say screw 'em as well... (or go all talk..hahahaha)
Heck... if I was a Part 15 I would say screw 'em as well... (or go all talk..hahahaha)
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hammondo
Guest
Habu said; "It would seem like they shouldn't"
Why would they NOT pay??? (this I gotta hear!)
Why would they NOT pay??? (this I gotta hear!)
hammondo said:
As non-commercial and non-profit stations run largely on donated effort, any music they choose to play is doing the artist/writer
a favor, and by not "using" the artist's work to further themselves financially, asking them to pay is almost immoral.
They are donating a valuable resource to the artist/writer, airplay. And such stations often have the freedom to choose
whatever they want.
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hammondo
Guest
BMI and ASCRAP are NEVER altruistic (look that up). Their reason for existence is money money money money money money money money and more money for their composer clients.
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