Bonneville should stick with the V100 format

[davideduardo]

I have been beating my head against the same wall with David and others on here. Yes, there are a large number of radio stations but they are all going to chase the prime demographics of age and ethnicity. Since people in our group (I have ten more years than you) are going to be left out. I for one would love to have an adult standards (Like "The Lounge" on 570, then 690 or 1260 before News Talk), I would also like a "real oldies" station playing the music for my generation. At least for now we do have a fairly decent country station again.

You are, then, trying to "kill the messenger" instead of understanding the facts.

LA radio is driven by ad agency buys (except for the religious and small ethnic stations... like KTYM and KIRN) so the programming they do must fit somewhere in the 18 to 54 year age spread. There are essentially no ad buys for 55+ ever in the market.

50's and early 60's oldies don't fit the age requirements, nor do standards. So they won't be coming back unless it is to a distressed AM that can sell to exclusively local and direct accounts.

Remember also that this is not an issue of sales skills... the demos are ordered by the agency clients, and are pretty much engraved in stone at the agency level. Remember, too, that the first boomers (62 this year) did not grow up on standards and are more llikely to be in the mood for post-64 oldies as well, so it's not probable that "marketing to boomers" will produce older oldies or standards stations... both are mostly pre-boomer.

 

[ercjncpr]

[/quote]


The answer for me was to take my computer that I just recently replaced with a faster machine, outfit it to hook into my stereo and enjoy the stations that stream on the web. Maybe once the digital radio thing sorts out and HD radios become affordable some of the less attractive (to the ad agencies) formats can get back on the air. Probably not though because once they have enough potential listeners they will chase the attractive demos for that as well. But there is also satellite as an option if you can get past the idea of paying for radio, I had to for TV.

[/quote]

Amen! There are lots of alternatives now...

 

[ercjncpr]

I have been beating my head against the same wall with David and others on here. Yes, there are a large number of radio stations but they are all going to chase the prime demographics of age and ethnicity. Since people in our group (I have ten more years than you) are going to be left out. I for one would love to have an adult standards (Like "The Lounge" on 570, then 690 or 1260 before News Talk), I would also like a "real oldies" station playing the music for my generation. At least for now we do have a fairly decent country station again.

You are, then, trying to "kill the messenger" instead of understanding the facts.

LA radio is driven by ad agency buys (except for the religious and small ethnic stations... like KTYM and KIRN) so the programming they do must fit somewhere in the 18 to 54 year age spread. There are essentially no ad buys for 55+ ever in the market.

50's and early 60's oldies don't fit the age requirements, nor do standards. So they won't be coming back unless it is to a distressed AM that can sell to exclusively local and direct accounts.

Remember also that this is not an issue of sales skills... the demos are ordered by the agency clients, and are pretty much engraved in stone at the agency level. Remember, too, that the first boomers (62 this year) did not grow up on standards and are more llikely to be in the mood for post-64 oldies as well, so it's not probable that "marketing to boomers" will produce older oldies or standards stations... both are mostly pre-boomer.

David, a serious question for you...

By "no ad buys", do you mean that every ad agency in the country is convinced that people 55+ do not buy ANY products whatsoever , or is it just that they don't buy "the right" products (based on generational appeal etc.)

 

[davideduardo]

David, a serious question for you...

By "no ad buys", do you mean that every ad agency in the country is convinced that people 55+ do not buy ANY products whatsoever , or is it just that they don't buy "the right" products (based on generational appeal etc.)

The clients of agencies, not the agency, make the demographic decisions on a campaign. Many of the clients, like legendary marketing experts P&G and so on, spend hundreds of millions on research and product design and tests to see who buys the most. They know what they are doing.

The biggest reason why nearly nobody, except those with products or services designed for seniors, goes after that market is return on investment. In general, those over 55 have more established buying patterns than those in younger age cells. So, it takes more advertising to get a person over 55 to change to a different product. In such cases, the cost of creating the sale may be more than the profit.

All of those involved know there is lots of money in 55+, particularly in 55-64. But the return on ad investment does not generally justify the expense.

 

[sfradio]

I don't know why everybody hates RO, I would die to have RO own KMEL then cc owning the hip hop area by wild and kmel, kmel sounds like crap, and also RO is mainly live and local on all their stations maybe not just the urban ac stations

 

[Bianco500]

And they don't want you sfradio because you're latino.

Think about that, that's why they drove KKBT into the ground and now why they're exiting stage left in LA.

 

[sfradio]

And they don't want you sfradio because you're latino.

Think about that, that's why they drove KKBT into the ground and now why they're exiting stage left in LA.

What about univision and SBS? they don't want white people or black people. Just like what that guy said earlier about latino 96.3, they play english music but only want latino type people, and what if 100.3 was called black 100.3

 

[davideduardo]

What about univision and SBS? they don't want white people or black people. Just like what that guy said earlier about latino 96.3, they play english music but only want latino type people,

Spanish language broadcasters target Spanish dominant Hispanics, not races. That is because "Hispanic" is not a race, but a culture.

In the 2000 Census, 55% of Hispanics indicated that they were "white", about 40% indicated "other" and 4% indicated they were Black. Nearly 300,000 indicated they were Hispanic and Asian.

So Spanish langauge broadcasters target people of any race or combination who speak Spanish.

Stations like KXOL plays a mix of English and Spanish language music but targeted in presentation and lifestyle at Hispanics... because there are so many Hispanics not fully served in this LA market by the fully English or fully Spanish stations.

 

[nmoore6676]

I have been beating my head against the same wall with David and others on here. Yes, there are a large number of radio stations but they are all going to chase the prime demographics of age and ethnicity. Since people in our group (I have ten more years than you) are going to be left out. I for one would love to have an adult standards (Like "The Lounge" on 570, then 690 or 1260 before News Talk), I would also like a "real oldies" station playing the music for my generation. At least for now we do have a fairly decent country station again.

You are, then, trying to "kill the messenger" instead of understanding the facts.

LA radio is driven by ad agency buys (except for the religious and small ethnic stations... like KTYM and KIRN) so the programming they do must fit somewhere in the 18 to 54 year age spread. There are essentially no ad buys for 55+ ever in the market.

50's and early 60's oldies don't fit the age requirements, nor do standards. So they won't be coming back unless it is to a distressed AM that can sell to exclusively local and direct accounts.

Remember also that this is not an issue of sales skills... the demos are ordered by the agency clients, and are pretty much engraved in stone at the agency level. Remember, too, that the first boomers (62 this year) did not grow up on standards and are more llikely to be in the mood for post-64 oldies as well, so it's not probable that "marketing to boomers" will produce older oldies or standards stations... both are mostly pre-boomer.

I am not trying to "kill" the messenger and I get the message and I know that you know the subject quite well. That does not mean I have to like the message any more than I have to like turning on a radio and struggle to find something I can stand listening to. Most of what is played on radio today is too non-musical for my ears. As I said I have at least partially solved the problem with on line radio. I actually prefer listening to some of the Spanish language music than most of the English music stations so when I'm away from my computer I'll tune in to that.

By the way, as a boomer, I was heavy in to rock, I remember Elvis and Jerry Lee before his fall along with Buddy Holly and Richie Valens among others. But also because I lived in southern Ohio with a large "immigrant" population from Kentucky and country music was big so I also heard a lot of that. Finally my parents had one of those old fashioned console radios that played 78's on a changer along with a big collection of 40's hits and there were still stations like WLW that played it too. Beisdes were still big bands recording hits until the early 60's and you had Dean Martin and Perry Como on TV, Andy Williams too.

I still believe and you needn't answer me that a station sales department could sell any format if they would seek out the sponsors that want to reach their audience rather than waiting for the agencies to call. They might not make a fortune but they could pay the bills and take home a little profit. The problem is that they have paid a lot (more than they were truly worth) for stations during the stampede to consolidate and grab all the best stations like a monopoly game. Now they have a board of directors to appease and creditors and stockholders to pay off so my simple view of how to do it just won't work. I may be an old fogey but I understand business (degree from Ohio State) so I don't need an explanation about how I'm wrong. I just wish there were a way to have on the air more variety, including what I like and other "minorities" too.

Some of those same business principles couple with expensive union demands are why the majority of autos sold are now from foreign companies and manufacturing is fast becoming a memory for this country. At least so long as the FCC prohibits foreign ownership of broadcast stations they won't go to the overseas corporations.

As for Radio One, though they may have some initial success they have had more failures and when they got into financial problems they had to sell off their best stations first and now they have to take firesale prices for what is left. They are eating themselves from the inside to stay alive and will be gone in a few years if that. They had a fairly successful cluster in Dayton Ohio and sold it all off a few months past, I'm not sure if it was at a loss because I don't have the numbers.

 

[Hmmm101]

As for Radio One, though they may have some initial success they have had more failures and when they got into financial problems they had to sell off their best stations first and now they have to take firesale prices for what is left. They are eating themselves from the inside to stay alive and will be gone in a few years if that. They had a fairly successful cluster in Dayton Ohio and sold it all off a few months past, I'm not sure if it was at a loss because I don't have the numbers.

You obviously don't have any facts about Radio One either. The clusters that were sold were sold for 2 main reasons - 1) they were underperforming for a company of RO's size and 2) they contained formats that RO had little to no experience operating. If you're a company that focuses on an urban audience and the core focus of your business is targeting urban audiences, then if you're smart, you'd get rid of the stations that don't fit your profile. It may have taken a few years, but I think RO was pretty smart for cutting Dayton & Louisville loose.

LA was a moneypit for RO. Everyone knows that. They took the "firesale" price to stop the hemmorhage. Overall, RO is a profitable well-run company. In this day and age of large radio companies firing hundreds of people in a week and companies having all of their content picked by one corporate PD, Radio One really isn't that bad

 

[2djdramah]

[/quote]
It was followed very, very closely by KTWV (which many consider to be more of a Black AC than KRBV ever was)
[/quote]

Good point on KTWV, which does sound way more Urban AC than smooth jazz. And having Brian McKnight in the mornings would be appealing to the Urban AC listener since he is a core Urban AC artist. This brings up another point. If 88.1 KKJZ were counted in the ratings, I'm sure they have taken away some of the adult African American audience RO was trying to reach. I have been to several of KKJZ's promotions over the past few years and there have been large numbers of African Americans in attendance at most of those events, which means they are listening to that station as well.

 

[davideduardo]

Good point on KTWV, which does sound way more Urban AC than smooth jazz. And having Brian McKnight in the mornings would be appealing to the Urban AC listener since he is a core Urban AC artist. This brings up another point. If 88.1 KKJZ were counted in the ratings, I'm sure they have taken away some of the adult African American audience RO was trying to reach. I have been to several of KKJZ's promotions over the past few years and there have been large numbers of African Americans in attendance at most of those events, which means they are listening to that station as well.

KKJZ is counted in the ratings. It is usually between 9th and 11th in 12+ Black numbers.

 

[pbf1]

I am not trying to "kill" the messenger and I get the message and I know that you know the subject quite well. That does not mean I have to like the message any more than I have to like turning on a radio and struggle to find something I can stand listening to. Most of what is played on radio today is too non-musical for my ears.

You are a research sample of ONE. As the situation has played out, there aren't enough with taste such as yours to make for a viable option.

V100 bled enormous amounts of red ink. It won't be around when the smoke clears. That's a fact you're going to inevitably face.

Maybe the next format won't be a success either; only time will tell. But given the already-demonstrated inability to make this format work, coupled with the demographic data that only works against such a format in the first place..."it ain't happenin'."

 

[Nate Wesley]

Overall, RO is a profitable well-run company. In this day and age of large radio companies firing hundreds of people in a week and companies having all of their content picked by one corporate PD, Radio One really isn't that bad

Profitable? Maybe through some fashion not involving creative math, but that stock price doesn't lead me to believe that at all. As far as content picked by corporate--you should really ask why gospel artist Jeff Majors gets the shine that he does through RO ventures (radio, TV, etc) . He happens to be pretty good, and he also happens to be Cathy Hughes' ex--the latter being his main reason for getting spins on RO-owned gospel stations and being one of the first artists signed to Hughes' Music One record label.

 

[nmoore6676]

As for Radio One, though they may have some initial success they have had more failures and when they got into financial problems they had to sell off their best stations first and now they have to take firesale prices for what is left. They are eating themselves from the inside to stay alive and will be gone in a few years if that. They had a fairly successful cluster in Dayton Ohio and sold it all off a few months past, I'm not sure if it was at a loss because I don't have the numbers.

You obviously don't have any facts about Radio One either. The clusters that were sold were sold for 2 main reasons - 1) they were underperforming for a company of RO's size and 2) they contained formats that RO had little to no experience operating. If you're a company that focuses on an urban audience and the core focus of your business is targeting urban audiences, then if you're smart, you'd get rid of the stations that don't fit your profile. It may have taken a few years, but I think RO was pretty smart for cutting Dayton & Louisville loose.

LA was a moneypit for RO. Everyone knows that. They took the "firesale" price to stop the hemmorhage. Overall, RO is a profitable well-run company. In this day and age of large radio companies firing hundreds of people in a week and companies having all of their content picked by one corporate PD, Radio One really isn't that bad

Why own or operate stations out of your core area then?

Clear Channel gobbled up a variety of formats and markets only because they wanted the most towers. RO didn't operate that way and should have been more careful with what they bought and operated.

 

[ercjncpr]

David, a serious question for you...

By "no ad buys", do you mean that every ad agency in the country is convinced that people 55+ do not buy ANY products whatsoever , or is it just that they don't buy "the right" products (based on generational appeal etc.)

The clients of agencies, not the agency, make the demographic decisions on a campaign. Many of the clients, like legendary marketing experts P&G and so on, spend hundreds of millions on research and product design and tests to see who buys the most. They know what they are doing.

The biggest reason why nearly nobody, except those with products or services designed for seniors, goes after that market is return on investment. In general, those over 55 have more established buying patterns than those in younger age cells. So, it takes more advertising to get a person over 55 to change to a different product. In such cases, the cost of creating the sale may be more than the profit.

All of those involved know there is lots of money in 55+, particularly in 55-64. But the return on ad investment does not generally justify the expense.

Gotcha, thanks!