Boston AM IBOC AIRCHECK

[mgpt6]

Disney 1260 AM and WXKS 1430 AM had their IBOC on. WBZ 1030 AM did not , yet they have a new ID " WBZ-AM , WBZ-HD, Boston". WFAN 660 from NYC did not interfer with WRKO 680 AM, but getting WSM 650 AM in Boston area at night is gone from WFAN's IBOC signal.

 

[LinoNYC]

but getting WSM 650 AM in Boston area at night is gone from WFAN's IBOC signal.

This is pretty much the extent of complaint you will get: man in Boston can't hear station in Nashville.

BTW: They stream and have archives.

Lino

 

[Savage]

Yeah, except for the (estimated) $2 million in annual national and regional revenue WSM derives from skywave service, the WFAN first-adjacent noise is no big deal.

IBOCers behave as if DX'ers are the only audience for distant AM signals.

And what about rural, sparsely-populated areas where listeners only get distant AM service at night? Guess they should be sacrificed too.

 

[LinoNYC]

Yeah, except for the (estimated) $2 million in annual national and regional revenue WSM derives from skywave service, the WFAN first-adjacent noise is no big deal.

Whose guestimate, yours?

With 164,100,000 computer in the USA many in homes, those people will be better served with streaming.

Next argument?

Lino

 

[radionekkid]

That no guess, might even be on the low side not adding the Grand Ole Opry revenue that has big national sponsors, but wonder if wsm even knows what is going on with all this, they have little staff there now.

 

[Tom Wells]

I really appreciate skywave on mw when I am traveling by car hundreds and hundreds of miles.
Yesterday, I drove home from Mpls/ St Paul, and if it had been night, I could listen to Chicago the whole way home for 8 hrs.
Everyone on an interstate highway trip is skywave's audience. When I first heard about satellite radio proposals,
I thought it was silly, since it's just a subscription duplication of existing, protetcted service (skywave)..and back then..it was sorta
protetcted, by the fact all the add-in night-timers was only then beginning.

WSCR's not been running here at night, but when they did WSM got blasted away.

 

[davideduardo]

Yeah, except for the (estimated) $2 million in annual national and regional revenue WSM derives from skywave service, the WFAN first-adjacent noise is no big deal.

WSM bills $450,000. Total. It's got to be the lowest billing 1-A clear by a long margin.

And what about rural, sparsely-populated areas where listeners only get distant AM service at night? Guess they should be sacrificed too.

AM radio listening at night is only about a quarter of the daytime level, and is less than 15% of all radio listening.

Most places have many FM signals now, and are best served by them. Examle: Omena, MI. 1960 two Traverse City AM (22 miles away) stations by day, none by night. Night had farily good reception of WJR and the 3 Chicago 1-As. None had any local news or information or even commercials. No other AM was a regular day in and day out. Today, over a dozen FMs have a usable signal over that little town, plus an upgraded AM and can be heard day and night. No need for the clear channel stations.

 

[Savage]

As President Reagan once said, "there you go again."

Every radio station which opposes/could oppose IBOC is a "pea-shooter." Anyone who suggests publicly that IBOC is flawed is "hysterical" or "on the lunatic fringe." Anyone asserting an interference claim from IBOC, no matter how legitimate, is just a worthless, naysaying impediment to the genius of HD-AM. Not even the venerable originator of The Grand Ole Opry, enjoyed via skywave by millions, is exempt from the arrogant denigrations of the IBOC crowd.

We're working with WSM's top management on the IBOC interference issue, and I can tell you - shocker of shockers - David "Eduardo" Gleason is wrong. Again. And sorry, Lino, my numbers are neither a guess nor an estimate.

But thanks for making my next argument for me: and that would be the looming complete (as opposed to today's ALMOST-complete) irrelevancy of IBOC. Within a time horizon predicted variously at one to two years, a consumer electronic device for which there is an obvious and demonstrated demand - streaming radio via internet (WiMax et al) - should be, if you'll pardon the expression, "Ubiquitous." (An early version of the wireless internet radio is in the current Hammacher Schlemmer catalog at a price point not far from current HD radios, a harbinger of a consumer device that will have real - not hyped or faked - appeal.)

Wireless connectivity with car radios, iPods & similar devices, cellphones and Blackberrys will make your favorite radio station (most of whom stream on the internet these days) available nationally. Without clunky, overpriced, ill-performing standalone IBOC radios (which by then should be in their "14th generation" of chipset field "improvement.") Without the preposterous expense of converting aging, complex transmitting facilities to HD. Without the long list of essentially unsolveable technical difficulties which will condemn IBOC gear to an early, dusty fate on the shelf of the "retired equipment" room out at the transmitter.

And: without a lot of shrill and boorish public disparagement of quality broadcasters by agenda-driven promoters of defective concepts (um, that would be, in case you didn't pick up on it....IBOC in all of its serial, endlessly flawed, iterations.)

 

[awj223]

AM radio listening at night is only about a quarter of the daytime level, and is less than 15% of all radio listening.

Most places have many FM signals now, and are best served by them. Examle: Omena, MI. 1960 two Traverse City AM (22 miles away) stations by day, none by night. Night had farily good reception of WJR and the 3 Chicago 1-As. None had any local news or information or even commercials. No other AM was a regular day in and day out. Today, over a dozen FMs have a usable signal over that little town, plus an upgraded AM and can be heard day and night. No need for the clear channel stations.

Actually, you just made a great argument for restoring the clear channels to their former clear states. If every rural community has local FMs, then there is no need to break clutter the MW clears to provide local service because local service can be provided on VHF.

 

[davideduardo]

Every radio station which opposes/could oppose IBOC is a "pea-shooter." Anyone who suggests publicly that IBOC is flawed is "hysterical" or "on the lunatic fringe." Anyone asserting an interference claim from IBOC, no matter how legitimate, is just a worthless, naysaying impediment to the genius of HD-AM. Not even the venerable originator of The Grand Ole Opry, enjoyed via skywave by millions, is exempt from the arrogant denigrations of the IBOC crowd.

You scare me now. "Enjoyed by millions" yet the station only shows up with ratings in two other markets, both "next to" the Nashville market. Were there "millions" of Opry listeners, WSM would have significant ratings in many other rated markets. It does not. In fact, it does not even have very good ratings in Nashville itself anymore, and a look at the artist roster will give you an idea why. The Oprey is an attraction for the Gaylord Hotel and entertainment complex, not a high rated radio show in 2007.

We're working with WSM's top management on the IBOC interference issue, and I can tell you - shocker of shockers - David "Eduardo" Gleason is wrong. Again. And sorry, Lino, my numbers are neither a guess nor an estimate.

Then the WSM folks are lying in their MK report, which means they have no respect for the integrity of the radio industry. Or, more likely, the revenue you speak of is from the Opry itself, the show, not the broadcast. They could sign off WSM and nobody would notice...it is 16th rated overall, and not even top 20 25-54, and beaten in revenue and ratings by a gospel AM daytimer.

Within a time horizon predicted variously at one to two years, a consumer electronic device for which there is an obvious and demonstrated demand - streaming radio via internet (WiMax et al) - should be, if you'll pardon the expression, "Ubiquitous."

Now you are playing Miss Cleo. We do not know the future of any technology. Look just at satellite radio. Devised in the early 80's, it still loses $1.5 billion a year. It may not even be a good business model... desite 14 million subscribers. On the other hand, commercial radio has about 230 million weekly 12+ users... and a powerful way to introduce HD to consumers over the next few years.

Without the long list of essentially unsolveable technical difficulties which will condemn IBOC gear to an early, dusty fate on the shelf of the "retired equipment" room out at the transmitter.

I think you are hoist on your own petard. Converting to HD is simple for FM, the stations 80% of listening goes to. And in most any metro, the cost is not prohibitive compared to the risk of not doing it. HD is really only appropriate for those AMs with a viable signal. In the top 100 markets, there are not even 300 viable signals, per BIA, that provide day and night service to "most" of the market. That is an average of less than 3 stations per market. In terms of percentage, only 15% of all top 100 market AMs are considered viable.

So, while nearly any rated market FM is a candidate for HD, very few AMs are candidates because most US AMs either have been outgrown by the market suburbanization, are daytimers, virtual daytimers (minuscule, ineffective night signal) or so severely directional they miss much of the market. In other words, there are really only about 250 AMs in the top 100 markets that fully serve the WHOLE community. Your station is just not one of those... but lying about WSM's listenership is hardly helping your case.

 

[R.F. Burns]

That's alright David, on Monday the lawyers will be back at work and according to Kahn Iboc will be off the air. This, following his prediction that nighttime IBOC won't happen because of the international outcry. By the way, he still has some Cam D exciters for $65,000 dollars. They're flying off the shelves. Get em while you can.

 

[Savage]

And as happens so frequently with the IBOC-AM crowd: the more powerful and persuasive an argument is made which they don't happen to like, the more they respond with name-calling, ad hominem attacks, denigration of someone else's station(s), sweeping and unsupportable statements, and the lowest of the low:

Making fun of Leonard Kahn.

If this is what it's come to: now I KNOW the IBOC-AM crowd can't defend their beloved system any more.

By the by: can the HD-AM fans come up with ONE chief engineer of a major station - ANY one, ANY where, with the exception of Cris Alexander or Tom Ray, who will publicly go on the record as supporting IBOC as actually being a good idea?

ONE will do.

 

[davideduardo]

And as happens so frequently with the IBOC-AM crowd: the more powerful and persuasive an argument is made which they don't happen to like, the more they respond with name-calling, ad hominem attacks, denigration of someone else's station(s), sweeping and unsupportable statements, and the lowest of the low:

Making fun of Leonard Kahn.

Making fun of Kahn is a way of hiding frustration over how he single-handedly doomed AM. About half of AM's audience went to FM while he spun the crank on the legal gears... and FM ended up being the dominant band with only a dim hope of any recovery.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

And as happens so frequently with the IBOC-AM crowd: the more powerful and persuasive an argument is made which they don't happen to like, the more they respond with name-calling, ad hominem attacks, denigration of someone else's station(s), sweeping and unsupportable statements, and the lowest of the low:

Making fun of Leonard Kahn.

Making fun of Kahn is a way of hiding frustration over how he single-handedly doomed AM. About half of AM's audience went to FM while he spun the crank on the legal gears... and FM ended up being the dominant band with only a dim hope of any recovery.

Rewriting history conjuring Leonard Kahn as the demon/scapegoat for loss of AM listenership did not and will not solve AM's problems. He was just defending his invention/patent/innovation (AM stereo). I expect any innovator would do the same.

It was Armstrong's invention of the superior FM system that might be blamed for starting the slow decline of AM. He is a much more likely scapegoat, if you really need one.

AM's problems are of AM's own making. FM's problems are of FM's own making. HD's problems are of HD's own making. The blame should be with the FCC, iBiquity, broadcasters, their organizations, unscrupulous methods, and insatiable greed.

 

[arnoldevns]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: regardless of the technical pros and cons of HD Radio - if they don't figure out how to market their receivers better this will be a huge waste of money for all concerned.

I don't know if wi-fi radio will take off. I don't have an HD radio. I do know that when I've tried to look for HD Radios in various stores the radios are rarely hooked up right to allow me to hear any HD programming. A sign that things aren't going well for HD Radio is that at several of the stores I visit on a regular basis, the HD display is starting to get smaller and pushed back into a corner.

It's hard to convince people to pay $250, $100, $150.. whatever for an AM/FM radio. When you don't display it well, it's impossible.

Regardless of what's going on at the station level, if the retail marketing of the radios isn't fixed, this technology will never "take off."

 

[calstymes]

Savage said:

Making fun of Leonard Kahn.

If this is what it's come to: now I KNOW the IBOC-AM crowd can't defend their beloved system any more.

And DavidEduardo replied:

Making fun of Kahn is a way of hiding frustration over how he single-handedly doomed AM. About half of AM's audience went to FM while he spun the crank on the legal gears... and FM ended up being the dominant band with only a dim hope of any recovery.

Oh my goodness sakes! Are you really that misinformed, David?? Don't you actually work in broadcasting? It is quite clear to me that you know very little about Leonard Kahn or his achievements and skills. The "pro" AM HD folks have been using him as a scapegoat for so long now it is usually not even worth commenting about but making him out to be AM's anti-christ is JUST a bit too much.

Then Savage pleaded:

By the by: can the HD-AM fans come up with ONE chief engineer of a major station - ANY one, ANY where, with the exception of Cris Alexander or Tom Ray, who will publicly go on the record as supporting IBOC as actually being a good idea?

ONE will do.

I have been asking for this on this here message board for at least six months now.

Yes. Any one will do. The silence is deafening.

 

[davideduardo]

Oh my goodness sakes! Are you really that misinformed, David?? Don't you actually work in broadcasting? It is quite clear to me that you know very little about Leonard Kahn or his achievements and skills. The "pro" AM HD folks have been using him as a scapegoat for so long now it is usually not even worth commenting about but making him out to be AM's anti-christ is JUST a bit too much.

Yeah, I have a little broadcast experience.

I had signed orders for the first AM Stereo gear from two of the 5 contenders back in the late 70's for WQII - San Juan. We had a 40% chance of being the first non-experimental AM stereo station in the US. Our entire audio system was rebuilt for stereo and we were ready. The, delayed by the Kahn legal maneuvers, we had to wait about 5 years. By then, AM was dead for music, FM was where music lived. In the year we thought AM stereo might be approved, the FM shares in our market were 14. By 1980, they were over 60. Thanks a lot, Leonard... you kill me!

 

[R.F. Burns]

And as happens so frequently with the IBOC-AM crowd: the more powerful and persuasive an argument is made which they don't happen to like, the more they respond with name-calling, ad hominem attacks, denigration of someone else's station(s), sweeping and unsupportable statements, and the lowest of the low:

Making fun of Leonard Kahn.

Making fun of Kahn is a way of hiding frustration over how he single-handedly doomed AM. About half of AM's audience went to FM while he spun the crank on the legal gears... and FM ended up being the dominant band with only a dim hope of any recovery.

Who's making fun of Mr Kahn. No matter what I think of his motives I do believe he's a extremely bright and talented design engineer. Check out his site. He says the things I have paraphrased here. I have made nothing up here. Boy, talk about paranoia, maybe try reading what I say as opposed to reading into what you think I'm saying. By the way, if Wi-Fi is 2 years off what's your problem with IBOC? In 2 years you'll be able to shut down that analog transmitter of yours and run an inernet station. Think of the coverage and all the money you're gonna save on electricity.

 

[4dude]

That's alright David, on Monday the lawyers will be back at work and according to Kahn Iboc will be off the air.

EXCELLENT NEWS!!!!

PLEASE KEEP US UPDATED

 

[Chuck]

. By the way, if Wi-Fi is 2 years off what's your problem with IBOC? In 2 years you'll be able to shut down that analog transmitter of yours and run an inernet station. Think of the coverage and all the money you're gonna save on electricity.

Isn't Savage's station on 1040? If so, I can understand why he would not be very happy if/when WBZ. 1030 lights up HD at night. I’m fairly certain that you can pick them up in analog at night in Savage’s back yard. As I understand it, they have not run HD after dark so far. I wonder if Savage's visibility has anything to do with it?

You are right, Wi-Max is 2 years or more away for most folks, although where I live, it is already a reality in limited areas. Still two years is an eternity when you are talking about broadcasting. Even once it is deployed, we all know it will be quite a while until there s enough acceptance to make any difference. Meanwhile, Savage, and lots of others will have to endure the interference of others. That doesn't strike me as the way things ought to be.

I guess everyone’s version of reality is different.