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BOSTON TV MARKET
- Thread starter alg2468
- Start date
vibe said:
I'm not a TV person either, but this is my understanding. If W9WI or other TV people are reading this, please feel free to comment and/or correct.
The DMAs are actually a marketing device - DMA stands for Designated Market Area. So even though a region belongs to a DMA, it doesn't necessarily translate to over-the-air reception, although it may determine which local channels are carried by cable and/or satellite TV.
Blythe, California, the only town of any size in eastern Riverside County, gets its OTA television from five translator TV stations rebroadcasting Phoenix stations KTVK, KPHO, KAET, KSAZ and KNXV. The translators are located about 10 mi. east of Blythe, just outside Quartzsite, Arizona, and likely receive their signal via microwave. All are owned by Palo Verde TV Club of Blythe. The Yuma/El Centro stations can also be received in Blythe, but the clearest signal is from the translators.
Apache County, Arizona, is split between the Navajo Nation in the north, and non-tribal land in the south. The north is the only area that receives over-the-air TV anymore; all of the translators in the southern part of the county have now shut down. Most of the Albuquerque stations received in northern Apache County actually come from translators of full-power satellite stations located in Farmington, New Mexico, and Durango, Colorado. Even though southern Apache County is in the Phoenix DMA, when its translator stations were active, they actually relayed Tucson stations, which, located at 9000' atop Mt. Bigelow, came in better, and were, in some cases, actually physically closer than Phoenix.
Utah uses a relay of translators, whereby one translator receives its signal from a Salt Lake City station, and that station is, in turn, received by another station, and so on, until SLC stations are broadcast in St. George UT, over 300 miles away. This was especially true when translators received over-the-air signals and simply relayed them; they might now be using microwave.
Translator TV is mostly used throughout the West; not so commonly in the East, although you'll find a network of translator stations in NE PA, which is how the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre market covers the entire northeastern part of the state, even though it is mountainous.
Garrett: maybe YOU aren't paying attention to the topic. The question was pertinent to the topic since there are many areas within Boston's DMA w/o the ability to receive even 1 OTA analog Beantown station.
The examples were clearly based on recent posts.
So let's cut the insults and move on if it's possible...
And I got a nice explanation from the next poster for which I say thanks..
The examples were clearly based on recent posts.
So let's cut the insults and move on if it's possible...
And I got a nice explanation from the next poster for which I say thanks..
Yep, what dhett said is absolutely true. You can get some Las Vegas stations on cable and one OTA translator for KVBC in St. George, UT - but the Salt Lake stations predominate as far as viewership and business (advertisers) are concerned. So, St. George is in the Salt Lake market despite being more than twice as far from SLC as from Vegas. And, that always will be so because of the cultural ties and service via translators. The weathercasts even feature the 5-day forecast for St. George - on every Salt Lake newscast. That's because of all the Salt Lake retirees that live there and because it's now the largest city in the market that is not on the "Wasatch Front".
You see, I know this from living and working there for years and actually was one of the guys who put them together. Despite what dhett thinks (expressed on the national board) - I actually DO know a thing or two about "flyover country!"
You see, I know this from living and working there for years and actually was one of the guys who put them together. Despite what dhett thinks (expressed on the national board) - I actually DO know a thing or two about "flyover country!"
dhett said:
My understanding (refutable, I'm more an engineering type than sales) is that DMA boundaries are set by which stations a majority of the audience watches. If 51% or more of the viewers in Eastern Riverside County watch Phoenix stations either directly off-air, via translators, via cable, and/or via dish, then Eastern Riverside County is in the Phoenix DMA.
As recently as the mid-1980s I've seen a station get a county moved into its DMA by targeting that county for extra news coverage/community involvement/etc... The county in question was midway between the stations for the new DMA and those for the old DMA, and both sets of stations were on cable there.
You probably couldn't do that today, as chances are cable would only be carrying one set of affiliates.
C
chuckydoll
Guest
Boston DMA vis-a-vis New Hampshire
Grafton County is about in the middle of New Hampshire yet part of the Burlington/Plattsburgh DMA. That county is very large by Northeast standards -- it's bordered roughly by Lebanon, Plymouth, Littleton and Woodsville.
Carroll and Coos Counties are closer to the Portland transmitters at Sebago Lake, thus those 2 counties are in the Portland DMA.
alg2468 said:
Grafton County is about in the middle of New Hampshire yet part of the Burlington/Plattsburgh DMA. That county is very large by Northeast standards -- it's bordered roughly by Lebanon, Plymouth, Littleton and Woodsville.
alg2468 said:
Carroll and Coos Counties are closer to the Portland transmitters at Sebago Lake, thus those 2 counties are in the Portland DMA.
Re: Boston DMA vis-a-vis New Hampshire
Quite true - and the majority of its population lies in the CT River Valley or on the western/southwestern slopes of the White Mountains. Both areas get coverage of Burlington market stations, which technically include WNNE-31 (NBC) from White River Jct. So, it's a no brainier for that county to be in the Burlington market.
Yes, much closer to Portland than anywhere else. Even Portland FM stations cover those counties reasonably well (with holes) and the Portland newscasts actually do a decent job of reporting on events in such NH cities as Berlin, Gorham, Conway and - farther south - Rochester, Dover and Portsmouth. It's perfectly appropriate for Carroll and Coos Counties to be in the Portland DMA.
The most questionable parts of NH are places like Merrimack and northern Rockingham Counties. Neither gets good coverage of Boston stations. Even parts of Hillsborough and Cheshire Counties are a pretty far reach to count as being part of the "Boston" market. I guess they had to stick them somewhere and they end up lumped in with Boston because WMUR is a "Boston" station. And, that's the one commercial station that penetrates all of these areas well.
Merrimack, Hillsborough, Rockingham and Cheshire Counties are certainly populous enough to be a TV Market unto themselves. But, money talks and that would knock Boston out of the top 10. As those counties are among the fastest (and only) growth areas in the market - Boston area broadcasters and advertisers will hold on to them as long as they can with a death grip.
It would take having more than one "Big 4" network affiliate in NH to justify such a change. And, the aforementioned forces would be against that. Channel 21 from Concord was CBS for a short period, which was the right idea done at the wrong time. 20 years too early. I had hoped that the area would end up with Fox (at various times) on 21, 50 or 60 but it never came to pass. Fox 25, in particular, does not cover New Hampshire well. Maybe a future station sale will result in something interesting there - but nothing yet. Or, a digital subchannel of WMUR carrying FOX would be fun too! Again, it doesn't seem likely - but an interesting thing to ponder.
It will also be interesting to see what happens to markets when all OTA stations are digital only. That could change some of the DMA geography.
chuckydoll said:
Quite true - and the majority of its population lies in the CT River Valley or on the western/southwestern slopes of the White Mountains. Both areas get coverage of Burlington market stations, which technically include WNNE-31 (NBC) from White River Jct. So, it's a no brainier for that county to be in the Burlington market.
chuckydoll said:
Yes, much closer to Portland than anywhere else. Even Portland FM stations cover those counties reasonably well (with holes) and the Portland newscasts actually do a decent job of reporting on events in such NH cities as Berlin, Gorham, Conway and - farther south - Rochester, Dover and Portsmouth. It's perfectly appropriate for Carroll and Coos Counties to be in the Portland DMA.
The most questionable parts of NH are places like Merrimack and northern Rockingham Counties. Neither gets good coverage of Boston stations. Even parts of Hillsborough and Cheshire Counties are a pretty far reach to count as being part of the "Boston" market. I guess they had to stick them somewhere and they end up lumped in with Boston because WMUR is a "Boston" station. And, that's the one commercial station that penetrates all of these areas well.
Merrimack, Hillsborough, Rockingham and Cheshire Counties are certainly populous enough to be a TV Market unto themselves. But, money talks and that would knock Boston out of the top 10. As those counties are among the fastest (and only) growth areas in the market - Boston area broadcasters and advertisers will hold on to them as long as they can with a death grip.
It would take having more than one "Big 4" network affiliate in NH to justify such a change. And, the aforementioned forces would be against that. Channel 21 from Concord was CBS for a short period, which was the right idea done at the wrong time. 20 years too early. I had hoped that the area would end up with Fox (at various times) on 21, 50 or 60 but it never came to pass. Fox 25, in particular, does not cover New Hampshire well. Maybe a future station sale will result in something interesting there - but nothing yet. Or, a digital subchannel of WMUR carrying FOX would be fun too! Again, it doesn't seem likely - but an interesting thing to ponder.
It will also be interesting to see what happens to markets when all OTA stations are digital only. That could change some of the DMA geography.
Re: Boston DMA vis-a-vis New Hampshire
The portland "Big 3" affilaites are carried along the Spaulding Turnpike corridor...OTA must be pretty good too, but I've never been down there with a tv and an antenna
BRNout said:
The portland "Big 3" affilaites are carried along the Spaulding Turnpike corridor...OTA must be pretty good too, but I've never been down there with a tv and an antenna
DMAs are determained by Nielsen not by the FCC, the FCC just uses them because it's easier for them to do so, but those are Nielsen entitities.
When I lived in the Marathon (about half way through the FL Keys) you couldn't get any TV at all. I once wrote Nielsen and asked how they determain which market which county goes to and they wrote back saying basically that the majority of the country watching TV stations from a particular area determains that, but follow up letters only repeated that. I mean I could never get them to say who they were counting. If 85% of the viewers in a county have cable they hve no choice as opposed to over the air viewer which can choose what market to watch from.
Markets are a guideline for the FCC but not absolute as the FCC allows sugnificantly viewed stations to be carred on cable and will not allow station even in their in the same market to automatically get carried on cable just because they are physically in a market.
For instance Key West has two full power TV channels but Key West is over 100 miles from Miami and cable companies were successfully able to say just because Key West is in Miami's market doesn't mean they can get carried automatically. Same in Chicago for Channel 35 which claimed the City of Chicago based on the fact the transmitter is in LaSalle County part of the Chicago market. But the station is so far from Chicago (It used to be a repeater of WEEK-TV in Peoria) that the FCC said must carry doesn't apply.)
TV markets are pretty much established. Smaller one or two station markets like Bowling Green Kentucky are using sub channels to get all the networks in their market instead of relying on places like Nashville for one or two networks.
When I lived in the Marathon (about half way through the FL Keys) you couldn't get any TV at all. I once wrote Nielsen and asked how they determain which market which county goes to and they wrote back saying basically that the majority of the country watching TV stations from a particular area determains that, but follow up letters only repeated that. I mean I could never get them to say who they were counting. If 85% of the viewers in a county have cable they hve no choice as opposed to over the air viewer which can choose what market to watch from.
Markets are a guideline for the FCC but not absolute as the FCC allows sugnificantly viewed stations to be carred on cable and will not allow station even in their in the same market to automatically get carried on cable just because they are physically in a market.
For instance Key West has two full power TV channels but Key West is over 100 miles from Miami and cable companies were successfully able to say just because Key West is in Miami's market doesn't mean they can get carried automatically. Same in Chicago for Channel 35 which claimed the City of Chicago based on the fact the transmitter is in LaSalle County part of the Chicago market. But the station is so far from Chicago (It used to be a repeater of WEEK-TV in Peoria) that the FCC said must carry doesn't apply.)
TV markets are pretty much established. Smaller one or two station markets like Bowling Green Kentucky are using sub channels to get all the networks in their market instead of relying on places like Nashville for one or two networks.
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