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Brace yourselves for nighttime IBOC...

W

webcastboy

Guest
...among many other changes to the HD Radio dial! The FCC just published the second R&O into the Federal Register, so the new rules (announced in May) become official on Sept.14th, 2007.

I am sure there will be at least a few AM IBOC stations all set and waiting to begin nighttime HD Radio, so it should be interesting - to say the least - to see what happens. After speaking with many supporters and detractors, I am of the opinion that the concerns over nighttime IBOC are all smoke and little flame. Yes, the concept of "DXing" will likely go out the window, but that's just not something Joe Average listener really does anymore. And the improvements to reception (when you have an HD Radio-equipped tuner, of course) are impressive. Audio fidelity? Yeah, a lot of AM stations really haven't gotten that tweaked quite right, but many of them have put most of their IBOC development on hold while waiting for nighttime authorization.

Of course, the real interesting wrinkle is that, since the 14th is on a Friday, will any nighttime football game coverage (or baseball games, for that matter) be affected. Again, I don't think any will...but it only takes one to raise a big-ass ruckus.

Also, since multicasting will no longer be experimental...and thus no longer required to be non-commercial...watch for ads to start appearing on HD2/HD3/HD-n channels very soon. HD Radio Alliance be damned (that technically expired this summer anyway...the original term was 18-24 months starting in January 2005)

EDIT: forgot the link, here it is:
http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/01jan20071800/edocket.access.gpo.gov/2007/07-3958.htm

It's also linked to for the remainer of Wednesday on the front page of today's Federal Register TOC:
http://www.access.gpo.gov/su_docs/aces/fr-cont.html
 
On 9/14 watch for WCBS 880 AM on 890 am ESPN Radio. For WBZ 1030 AM on 1010 WINS and vice versa.Also, WFAN 660AM on WRKO 680AM. Also, will WXKS 1430 and 1260AM , Disney Radio have any affect in Boston area with their IBOC.
On FM; HD-2 channels should give great ads rates.
For as I know, dont think there are any HD-3 IBOC channels yet.
 
Unless the feds mandate that all radios must be built to receive HD signals I don't see people running out to purchase the equipment to decode the HD signals in mass quantities.

I don't care how many promos the stations run, or how many Krutchfield commercials run ( they are almost as annoying as the Marshfield Fair spots) the economy stinks, people keep cars 4 years on average, and I for one am not going to toss away the factory radios in my Porsche, Explorer, Solara or Harley so I can get one tenth of what I get on XM for 12 bucks a month.

If the next car/ bike I buy has one already in it so be it. I predict they will be optional, on the premium sound systems as an add on. Many cars come from the factory with the radio set up to add a XM or Sirius unit as a dealer installed option, with the manufacturer deciding which company they align with... Toyota does XM Mazda does Sirius, and I think Benz does both. I predict there will be a dealer installed option for HD/IBOC in the next year or two.

HD TV has been a not been a big seller IMHO, and will only become the norm after the feds make the current "TV" stations on the VHF band turn off their transmitters. The FCC auctioned off that spectrum recently to the Cellular telephone companies, with some restrictions abuit open access for all phones and software. People will only buy it in quantity when it is forced upon them.

When we all have to trudge to Radio Shack to buy converter boxes so we can watch TV on our non HD sets, then HD TV sales will take off. Then watch the cable companies laugh as they bend us over for HD boxes. Mrs. Neggy says the cable bill went up 20 bucks when she got her HD TV ( the one we never watch) Box from CamcASSt.

So when the FCC says it has to be HD/IBOC ready to meet the Part 15 rules, then it will be in the mainstream, until then I'm still waiting for BCN to turn their QUAD generator back on.

AM Stereo failed because the radios were not in widespread distribution ( my 88 lincoln and 93 Cougar had them but outside of WLYN, WCAS, and WILD what stations were broadcasting in AM Stereo in the last 5 years? What year did BZ turn off their Stereo generator to do IBOC?
 
AM Stereo lasted on WBZ until about 2002. Ticked me off since I had purchased a number of AM Stereo radios mostly for use with them (my '99 Ford Expedition has AM Stereo as well). That's why I'm not buying an HD radio anytime soon - not planning to be burned twice. When I see it is a standard that is meeting with success and will stick around, I'll go for it (which probably means by that stage it will become a standard feature in most radios).

I completely disagree with the statement that no one listen to the skywave signals. Just listen to WBZ or any 50kw station running local programming evenings/overnight. They always get lots of callers from their skywave coverage area. When WWKB in Buffalo was running their oldies format they would air caller comments and had plenty from their skywave area. I have more examples.

If the intereference from the IBOC sidebands of 1010, 1020 and 1030 is too severe, would WINS, KDKA and WBZ choose to limit their use of IBOC to daytime only (since they are co-owned?)

Potentially it will do little if anything since the IBOC sidebands are at considerably less power than the analog signal. It may be that those of us in the WBZ primary coverage area get noise on 1020/1040 and maybe 1010 and 1050 but the affect of IBOC on 1030 in more distant locations will be negligible. Guess we will find out soon.
 
If you have a format, and few people care or have the equipment needed to hear it, does it make a sound?
AM radio is not the "highest and best use" of spectrum space for any type of music format. Remember quad FM? How about minidiscs, as a consumer format? DAT? Video discs in the late 70's? None ever took off in a big way. Just because the technology will support a format, does not guarantee its success. Watched your Beta videotapes lately? Hhhmmm...... Now there is the battle of high-def DVD vs. BlueRay. Who wants to drop a ton of money until there is an established standard in the marketplace? To paraphrase an election year slogan - it's the programming, stupid...

At WLYN, we pulled the plug on AM stereo over a year ago. Very little of our broadcast day was in true stereo anyway, and it made no sense to continue it for a handful of users.

My aftermarket car stereo is XM ready, but I, personally, don't see the need for that either. I pop in a CD (that I already have...) for the drive to work -- a different one for the ride home. Always stuff that I like, with no interruptions.

Go to a consumer electronics store and listen to their sales people try to sell high-def TV or HD radio. These are the same people who pushed SSB CB radios as having "twice the number of chanels!" who wouldn't want that, eh? ;D ;D ;D
 
CDs and DVDs were a sucess. Cassettes were for 20 years. VHS lived for 20 years too, HDTV will be a sucess (much better PQ and push from Feds.) HD Radio might be a sucess if Ibquity had lower royalities for stations and for consumer radios w/HD. IF not small FM stations can go digital on the cheap with FMXtra.
 
Maybe it's the IBOC, but during the day, WTIC-AM 1080 of Hartford, a 50,000 watt clear channel, sounds HORRIBLE! :(
 
KML-224 said:
Maybe it's the IBOC, but during the day, WTIC-AM 1080 of Hartford, a 50,000 watt clear channel, sounds HORRIBLE! :(
Click to expand...

Yes, so do pretty much all AM stations that run IBOC. WBZ sounds so flat as to make WRKO seem as if it's in stereo (when compared). Same is true of KYW in Philly - lousy sound quality all day. The IBOC steals bandwidth from the analog side too, rendering the sound quality as thin and flat. Even the volume level suffers.

99.9% of AM listeners will suffer thanks to IBOC. Periodically, I see the proponents of IBOC arguing about how great it is and how it's the saviour of the AM dial. What a load of crap! These are guys who live in an ivory tower. In the real world, almost no one is buying into HD radio and the few that are tend to listen to FM (I suspect they're attracted to the subchannels).

I've had a number of mini debates with folks like Tom Ray at WOR about this issue, but their minds are too set to see the writing on the wall. They're absolutely stubborn about how fantastic IBOC is and how I don't know what I am talking about (that's the easiest way to "win" an argument, right?). Yeah, in theory it sounds great. But, will anyone be listening? Early indications appear to point to a big, fat, 'NO'.

The remaining AM listeners are older and tend to be late adopters of technology (as an overall group). This latest imposition of IBOC on the dial will drive more of them to FM, thanks to reduced sound quality and more limited areas of decent reception. It is a lose-lose proposition.

Mark my words, this is the beginning of the end for the band as we know it.
 
spt87 said:
AM Stereo lasted on WBZ until about 2002. Ticked me off since I had purchased a number of AM Stereo radios mostly for use with them (my '99 Ford Expedition has AM Stereo as well). That's why I'm not buying an HD radio anytime soon - not planning to be burned twice. When I see it is a standard that is meeting with success and will stick around, I'll go for it (which probably means by that stage it will become a standard feature in most radios).

I completely disagree with the statement that no one listen to the skywave signals. Just listen to WBZ or any 50kw station running local programming evenings/overnight. They always get lots of callers from their skywave coverage area. When WWKB in Buffalo was running their oldies format they would air caller comments and had plenty from their skywave area. I have more examples.

If the intereference from the IBOC sidebands of 1010, 1020 and 1030 is too severe, would WINS, KDKA and WBZ choose to limit their use of IBOC to daytime only (since they are co-owned?)

Potentially it will do little if anything since the IBOC sidebands are at considerably less power than the analog signal. It may be that those of us in the WBZ primary coverage area get noise on 1020/1040 and maybe 1010 and 1050 but the affect of IBOC on 1030 in more distant locations will be negligible. Guess we will find out soon.
Click to expand...

Right now it's impossible to pick up WSMN-AM 1590 within 3 or 4 miles from the WNNW-AM 800 tower in Andover. Why? The first octave of 800 is 1600, and during the day, when WNNW is broadcasting AM IBOC, its first octave signal also in IBOC spreads hash over 1590, and even 1570...maybe after WNSH goes 30KW it will be better.
 
webcastboy said:
since multicasting will no longer be experimental...and thus no longer required to be non-commercial...watch for ads to start appearing on HD2/HD3/HD-n channels very soon.
Click to expand...

Do NOT hold your breath waiting for that one to happen. Placement of ads on a multicasting channel requires four things:

1) An audience.
2) A means of measuring and quantifying that audience.
3) A format which will attract an audience.
4) A format which advertisers will buy.

Since the number of HD radios in the hands of consumers is somewhere between scant and non-existent (one estimate from a fairly reliable source puts the number at less than one million nationwide, compared with 800 million analog radios), and since all we've seen so far on multicasting channels are niche formats which have not and will not make it on main channels, no advertiser with any brains will buy ads to broadcast to no one.

The broadcasting industry is perfectly poised to shoot themselves in the foot with multicasting. They keep screaming "more choices," thinking that this is going to "save" them, forgetting that those who listen to the niche formats have to come from somewhere. The only way this works is if the "pie" gets bigger, and it won't. They'll just be slicing that pie into more pieces. At some point, if and when the HD radios are out there in sufficient quantity, the value of the main-channel signals will start deteriorating (the signals where the money is made), and the alarms will finally go off, long after the damage is done. You don't double or triple the number of signals in a market and expect that there won't be economic consequences. We went through that 20 years ago with Docket 80-90...but the radio industry apparently failed to learn the lessons of that debacle.
 
is BCN still doing Brazilian on one of its HD channels?

With the amount of green and yellow cloth I see hanging off the side of every building in Lynn, Somerville, Everett, Malden...... I would think there are a bunch of places that would buy time to get the message out to the temporary guest workers who are in a strange land and in search of a touch of home.

I have no doubt the temporary guest workers would buy HD receivers to get programming in their native tongue. Just look at how many satellite dishes there are in the neighborhoods where the temporary guest workers live.
 
Neggy said:
is BCN still doing Brazilian on one of its HD channels?

With the amount of green and yellow cloth I see hanging off the side of every building in Lynn, Somerville, Everett, Malden...... I would think there are a bunch of places that would buy time to get the message out to the temporary guest workers who are in a strange land and in search of a touch of home.

I have no doubt the temporary guest workers would buy HD receivers to get programming in their native tongue. Just look at how many satellite dishes there are in the neighborhoods where the temporary guest workers live.
Click to expand...

BCN never had that on a HD channel, just an analog subcarrier (either 67 or 92 kHz).
 
I stand corrected......

But imagine if they did do it on HD?

I KNOW there is a huge (undocumented) Brazilian population in MA.... any city within 4 miles of Boston is full of them, as is Framingham
 
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