Brain it out here for the new DFW format...

[van hespen]

Let's try to brain this thing out. What is CC thinking?

--What format will sell in DFW?

--What format is under-delivered?

--What time frame to deliver ratings?

--Will a Classic Rock station compliment programming for Lone Star?

--Can a Smooth Jazz format work this time (as opposed to the last attempt) with a better signal? Will syndicated talent (Koz/Ramsey Lewis) work in DFW?

--How about going after KLUV's Oldies audience? Even a modestly performing Oldies station could devastate KLUV by knocking them out of the top DFW performing stations.

--Who can step up to the mic and deliver the stuff?

--Would CC go cheap or do it right?

 

[MikeShannon914]

I'll take a shot at this, armchair programmer that I am...

There's several formats that could very well "grow legs" and take off, but knowing CC's penchant to go with the safest, cheapest bet, anything they do will likely be a format or presentation that will quickly fade into the wallpaper. I'll certainly be happy to give whatever format a shot, assuming it's music I like and the talent is adequate and the spotload is reasonable.

If sold correctly, many formats could work...Modern/Active Rock, Oldies, Modern Classic Rock (1976-96ish,) Contemporary Black Gospel, and yes, Smooth Jazz. Even Sunny 97.1's Light AC took away some share from KVIL, and might have pulled even or passed them by now had CC left it alone.

Part of the "magic" of KOAI was the LOCAL personalities. Tempie, a longtime local vet; Lynn Briggs; Tim Garrison; Bret Michael; Debbie and Doyle and Ian and Ben...all were easy on the ears and complemented the format just fine. Voicetracking or putting on wall-to-wall syndie shows is not the way to build listenership. Perhaps one show would be fine.

KLUV, Lord love 'em, is a good station that I usually enjoy listening to. But, like it or not, some of their listenership is by default, as there's nothing else on the dial that caters to that niche. But KLUV has done a decent job (even within CBS's corporate constraints) to build and keep an audience, thanks to Jody, Debi and John especially, so it might be tougher than it might appear at first glance to steal folks away. Now, like in the old days, competition might actually make BOTH stations better--KLUV would have to expand their playlist to keep up with someone else's version of a 300-song oldies playlist. If oldies is the chosen format for KEGL, someone really needs to study the KODZ-Oldies 94.9 model to see what worked against KLUV and what didn't. for example, the Top 40-sounding stingers and sounders didn't really work for KODZ. Now let's pose a really strange twist to this...Do you hire Chuck Brinkman for such a station? For a jock or PD or both? There's someone who knows the KLUV model inside-out, and would love to serve up a big helping of "I told ya so" to his old bosses...but does he still have the drive and desire to do such a thing? Is he too closely associated with the KLUV-of-Old to be taken seriously?

 

[van hespen]

There's a thought. Chuck Brinkman....makes sense.

Thanks for the reply, Mike.

 

[Robert Bass]

We could also use an all 80's format. ;D

R

 

[MikeShannon914]

Yes indeed! Sorry for forgetting to mention that one. Really, I'd rather wait for KEOM to go all-80s...at least it'd be done with a love for, and a true understanding of, the format, and I wouldn't have to sit through 22-min stopsets, AND I wouldn't have to miss "Wondrous Words" or "The Recipe File."

But it might not be the same without Dr. G's twangy sing-song intros: "Aiety-aieght point fahv eff ehm, Kay-Eee-Ohhe-Eeeumm. An nohw herre's Teers fer Feers saingin' 'Heaauud Ovur Haeeuls.'" :'(

 

[War Of Attrition]

Mark my words: Clear Channel will NOT be launching an Oldies, Smooth Jazz, or Contemporary Black Gospel station. It doesn't matter how you look at the market, these formats just are not viable or in the case of Oldies, already taken.

Wouldn't it be hard to believe that they would run a month of commercial free music an then flip to a format that is not at least somewhat compatible with the audience that they have built up?

 

[gordontalk]

Maybe it will be country to compete with the Twister.

 

[van hespen]

OK War, that leaves a or Spanish speaking AOR. Cheech is available.

I would think managment is spending this time to say good bye to the hispanic audience with the Christmas music.

 

[gordontalk]

Remember when the Zoo did the Christmas thing? Does anyone know when that started and ended? I wasn't living here at the time, however I remember hearing it in March when I visitted my mom for a few days.

 

[Slambang]

OK War, that leaves a or Spanish speaking AOR. Cheech is available.

I would think managment is spending this time to say good bye to the hispanic audience with the Christmas music.

More like Adios

But, CC (hopefully)learned from its mistakes with that format in this market. Maybe they'll take the right steps and ressurrect The Eagle in one form or another.

 

[MikeShannon914]

Remember when the Zoo did the Christmas thing? Does anyone know when that started and ended? I wasn't living here at the time, however I remember hearing it in March when I visitted my mom for a few days.

Christmas music in March? Or did I misread something here? ???

KZEW flipped to Christmas music on 12/11/1989 and then flipped to Warm 97.9 on 12/26/1989.

 

[charles123]

Well first of all, there is a spot in this market for a smooth jazz station and second it's still popular around here. I think the new format will be smooth jazz, because I never heard Ramsey Lewis's morning show, and Dave Koz used to have his radio show on the weekends on the Oasis, remember??

 

[VERITAS DE VOCE]

Let's try to brain this thing out. What is CC thinking?

--What format will sell in DFW?

JAZZ or AOR. It worked once, it can work again. Of course, if CC wanted to be adventurous, they would bring an 80s format here. Nice. Then again, "adventurous" to the CC crew is daring to wear a polka-dotted tie with a pin-striped shirt. Chilling, isn't it? ;D

--What format is under-delivered?

Note above answer.

--What time frame to deliver ratings?

Give them two books. We should see what works and what doesn't by then (shout out to Lonestar) 8)

--Will a Classic Rock station compliment programming for Lone Star?

Anyone catch the BONE's moniker lately, "THE Classic Rock Station." Suppose they couldn't wait for the ZPS copyright infringement body to get cold there.

--Can a Smooth Jazz format work this time (as opposed to the last attempt) with a better signal? Will syndicated talent (Koz/Ramsey Lewis) work in DFW?

I know first hand that Ramsey Lewis' morning show is great, brings in ratings and the sponsors. Give everything else live and local, and I believe there is a great post about a proposed line up, but it includes Lynn Briggs and Tempe Lindsey. I'm glued to it already.

--How about going after KLUV's Oldies audience? Even a modestly performing Oldies station could devastate KLUV by knocking them out of the top DFW performing stations.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the one thing KLUV can brag about their audience is that they are loyalists to the end. I would think the listeners would listen to both, but never stop checking out 98.7 all together.

--Who can step up to the mic and deliver the stuff?

Preferably someone that knows... and, uh yeah, cares... about this market and the interesting cacophony that happens every time morning traffic begins. Dallas loves it some radio.

--Would CC go cheap or do it right?

Well, I don't know... but I did see Lowry Mays at a garage sale the other day looking for a good deal on a receiver. But shhh... that stays between us. ;D

 

[fredthehead]

the all 80's format in houston is a disaster in the ratings, but with all the 30,000 dollar millionare cheese balls up there in DFW, it may do well. who knows...

 

[MikeShannon914]

"30,000 dollar millionare cheese balls" ??? Explain?

I buy mine at Sam's for $5.99 for that mini-barrel-looking thing.

Long live those burnt-orange fingertips! ;D

I don't know who owns your 80s station in Refinery City, but I'd bet it's misprogrammed or mismanaged. There's no logical reason an 80s format wouldn't work here or there...IF IT'S DONE RIGHT. The demo is there, and just like your nose, it's ripe for the picking.

 

[War Of Attrition]

Well first of all, there is a spot in this market for a smooth jazz station and second it's still popular around here.

Maybe so, but it is not popular enough and not with the right demographics to support a Cedar Hill stick and certainly not from Clear Channel. The economics just don't work.

I could see Smooth Jazz on one of the rimshots though. K-SOUL? Radio One would probably try Gospel first.

I think the new format will be smooth jazz, because I never heard Ramsey Lewis's morning show, and Dave Koz used to have his radio show on the weekends on the Oasis, remember??

I do not think that that is convincing evidence.

 

[little1]

Mike check out this week's Observer-
their cover story is on 30,000 dollar millionaires...(aka Cheeseballs)

And Smooth Jazz, even done cheaper (w/syndicated programming) still wouldn't be a revenue powerhouse. And while I haven't checked Miller-Kaplan lately, I do believe the top billers are still WBAP, KTCK with KLUV somewhere up near the top...

So an "oldies" format just might be a possibility- because I wouldn't want to try and do sports or add another talk station to go up against WBAP or KTCK. Just depends on how you define 'oldies'.

If you were to do a 'Classic Edge" format, you'd do a couple of things-

get that 30-40 year old that grew up on Gimarc, Jeff K, etc...A very sellable demo, BTW...

If you draw any audience at all, you force KLUV to stay mired in the 70's, while you own the 80's...Which means their audience will slowly age out of the 25-54 demo...

You probably also draw off some Jack P-1's, another station that gets no respect but draws halfway decent ratings and more than decent revenue...

My problem with Jack (and KEOM to an extent) is that they try to keep everybody happy, they play AOR, pop, disco/dance, etc...

I'd like to see if a 80's based format that isn't all over the map (no Tears for Fears AND Skid Row and Whitney Houston) coul dmake the grade...

 

[jeffdfw]

Mike check out this week's Observer-
their cover story is on 30,000 dollar millionaires...(aka Cheeseballs)

And Smooth Jazz, even done cheaper (w/syndicated programming) still wouldn't be a revenue powerhouse. And while I haven't checked Miller-Kaplan lately, I do believe the top billers are still WBAP, KTCK with KLUV somewhere up near the top...

So an "oldies" format just might be a possibility- because I wouldn't want to try and do sports or add another talk station to go up against WBAP or KTCK. Just depends on how you define 'oldies'.

If you were to do a 'Classic Edge" format, you'd do a couple of things-

get that 30-40 year old that grew up on Gimarc, Jeff K, etc...A very sellable demo, BTW...

If you draw any audience at all, you force KLUV to stay mired in the 70's, while you own the 80's...Which means their audience will slowly age out of the 25-54 demo...

You probably also draw off some Jack P-1's, another station that gets no respect but draws halfway decent ratings and more than decent revenue...

My problem with Jack (and KEOM to an extent) is that they try to keep everybody happy, they play AOR, pop, disco/dance, etc...

I'd like to see if a 80's based format that isn't all over the map (no Tears for Fears AND Skid Row and Whitney Houston) coul dmake the grade...

If smooth jazz is not profitable then how do you explain Dave Koz No. 1 in the 25 - 54 afternoon drive in Chicago???

 

[Robert Bass]

(and KEOM to an extent) is that they try to keep everybody happy, they play AOR, pop, disco/dance, etc...

That's the whole point! It's 70's Top 40. Essentially the format is how you would have heard 70's music when it was new.

R

 

[little1]

If smooth jazz is not profitable then how do you explain Dave Koz No. 1 in the 25 - 54 afternoon drive in Chicago???

Is he number 1 in ratings or in revenue?

Because, obviously, there's some connection, but not a direct correlation between those 2.

As I said upthread, the 2 highest billing stations in the market right now are WBAP and KTCK. And while there is a certain advantage in inventory there (although that doesn't explain why KRLD isn't up there also), high ratings don't necessarily translate into high billing.

And this should go without saying, but every market is different. What works in 1 market isn't necessarily going to be replicatable in another. Howard was the king of all media, but could never get to #1 in Dallas. There are markets where classical is successful, and others where it's dying on the vine.

Smooth jazz has died one death here. You're going to have a hard time convincing an ownership group or a GM that you can do the same thing that the Oasis did and get completely different results...