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Breaking into News/Talk

Howdy, I would like to ask you all about getting into talk radio. As someone who almost has zero-idea on how to do that, could you please give me some advice?

Where should I start? Where do I start!?

I am about to get into a community college. It does offer some journalism courses (at least that is a start!). After community college, would it be a good idea to get a full four year degree in journalism or something of that nature?

I have seen advertisements for the Broadcasters Training Network at http://www.learn-by-doing.com. Would you recommend a group like that?

My highest goal is to host my own political talk show. I love radio-----specifically talk radio. I love the format and the "art" of it. I love the intimacy between the host and the callers. Etc. I also a news-junkie and have a pretty much defined political view.

I know I probably won't reach my end goal any time soon right now. But I want to know how to get there. Treat me like I have zero idea on how to do that-------help me out please! What is the "fast track" (if there is such a thing! lol)? Could I / Should I try to start out being a producer or other behind-the-scenes person in the business or focus on being a reporter first? If so, how do I do that?

Thanks in advance! 8)
 
I think most talk show hosts, even Rush Limbaugh, made their mark as radio personalities within a music format before they began doing talk shows.

Doing a DJ show will teach you timing and the essentials of conforming what you do to the cruel, three-handed taskmaster (and digital versions thereof) on the wall of every studio. Timing is an essential part of the process of learning how to make radio work. The clock will not give you one extra second to do what you are assigned to do.

After you have achieved some ratings success as a music DJ, then find a position where you have to deal with integrating telephone calls into the mix, or even (and I know some will shudder when I mention this) a phone-in tradio or sports talk show. This way, you will learn how to build some rapport with callers, and how to lead them to talk about the subjects where you want to direct your show.

As you gain experience, you need to constantly aircheck yourself and learn how to improve what you do. Finally, you have to convince a station manager that you're good enough, based on what experience you can muster by doing the things I have mentioned.

Don't expect to be a well-respected host overnight, but if you continually critique yourself, seek direction and improve, you have every potential to succeed at what you want to do.

Much success to you for the future.

Later....
Matt Smith
WGSR-TV
 
For what its worth, Matt is giving you good advice.

By the way, these skills will become ingrained. You will carry them for a lifetime.

I started at a suburban station outside of Chicago playing polkas on weekends and then got a weekend relief job at a small daytime only station in Oklahoma City while attending college, I eventually moved on to fulltime gigs in OKC, Tulsa, Dallas, DC and Pittsburgh. Along they way I did rock, C&W, News, religious programming, Sports (my worst), and talk. But my skills at timing, technical perfection and being understood were my best assets. (I also have good pipes.)

When I eventually went into PR for a major corporation, I still would pull an occasional relief gig just for fun. I could literally walk in and do a shift- with some board knowledge.

Do your small market/small station dues and then take advantage of the opportunities as they come along. Oh yes, have fun.

Bruce
 
This is about the most useful and concise post I've ever seen on this board.


Matt Smith said:
I think most talk show hosts, even Rush Limbaugh, made their mark as radio personalities within a music format before they began doing talk shows.

Doing a DJ show will teach you timing and the essentials of conforming what you do to the cruel, three-handed taskmaster (and digital versions thereof) on the wall of every studio. Timing is an essential part of the process of learning how to make radio work. The clock will not give you one extra second to do what you are assigned to do.

After you have achieved some ratings success as a music DJ, then find a position where you have to deal with integrating telephone calls into the mix, or even (and I know some will shudder when I mention this) a phone-in tradio or sports talk show. This way, you will learn how to build some rapport with callers, and how to lead them to talk about the subjects where you want to direct your show.

As you gain experience, you need to constantly aircheck yourself and learn how to improve what you do. Finally, you have to convince a station manager that you're good enough, based on what experience you can muster by doing the things I have mentioned.

Don't expect to be a well-respected host overnight, but if you continually critique yourself, seek direction and improve, you have every potential to succeed at what you want to do.

Much success to you for the future.

Later....
Matt Smith
WGSR-TV
 
MarcB said:
Might I also suggest buying an hour or two on a small AM station that brokers its airtime?

Please don't, unless you can name a major talent who got started by brokering airtime (outside the health and financial talk show fields, which are basically brokered-time top to bottom).

The last thing a station wants is for a brokered host to become a success enough to go to a barter or salary position. That means lost revenue. Most brokered stations do NOT offer the kind of talent coaching and discipline that will enable someone to grow. The equipment is often spartan or rundown. All you will learn in such an environment is the bad habits of the other brokering hosts, most of whom have no desire to get
"better" or attract a larger audience.

The transformation of so many AM stations into what one wag calls "paytoilets" is a tragedy, as it has deprived an entire generation of would-be talents of a place to develop their schticks.
 
Matt: you gave some wonderful advice. I enjoyed reading your post. Good work! Keep it up!
 
Regarding doing a brokered show:

I believe Pat Zajak started that way.

Also the morning sports guy, Mike North, on THE SCORE (WSCR-AM) in Chicago started by brokering a one hour sports talk show and was heard by the owner of THE SCORE.

I'm sure there are many others.
 
How about doing a web streaming show? Just to practice and have some tapes to bring up to the radio stations.
 
No - PAT SAJAK did NOT start by BROKERING time.

I know. I worked a the same station he did.

WEDC was a BROKERED TIME station. Pat (like myself) was a BOARD OPERATOR there.

Find a small market with a good owner or manager who'll take time to teach you. BEST WISHES!
 
Sorry about the mis information. I had heard that he brokered time on WEDC (Emil Denemark Cadillac). The WEDC-WCRW-WSBC share time combo is a story in itself.

I still say that this is one way to get on the air but there are so many other ways including a local public radio station. Many have internships that include some air time.
 
Matt gave you some great advice. I always felt a good call in show was programmed just like a good music hour - with good variety of tempo and styles of calls. And I can tell you, if a call is more than three or four minutes, it better be a "Hey Jude"!
 
Please don't, unless you can name a major talent who got started by brokering airtime (outside the health and financial talk show fields, which are basically brokered-time top to bottom).

The last thing a station wants is for a brokered host to become a success enough to go to a barter or salary position. That means lost revenue. Most brokered stations do NOT offer the kind of talent coaching and discipline that will enable someone to grow. The equipment is often spartan or rundown. All you will learn in such an environment is the bad habits of the other brokering hosts, most of whom have no desire to get "better" or attract a larger audience.

I would tend to agree with the above premise IF the person had NO initial training as a broadcaster. However, if the aspiring talent has gone through the necessary training, and even gained some experience as a DJ or board operator, then it might be a good idea to invest in their own show through brokering the program. In case you didn't notice, there aren't many opportunities for UNPROVEN (i.e. those talents without 5+ years experience) talents--especially since these stations have become so centralized, and addicted to syndicated programming.

Under such circumstances, what is an aspiring talent supposed to do? Wait, and lose the little training that they have gained while they wait FOREVER until they "win the lottery" and get offered a gig? I sure hope not. Brokering their show will build a listener base for them, and they can hone their craft (train on the job), and eventually garner enough experience to be prepared for their break. True enough, lease-based stations are not going to do much training (except on how not to damage their equipment), and this is why that it is necessary that the aspiring talent get the necessary training beforehand. However, I think it is a great idea for one to invest in their own shows until their time comes. Passionate people (key operative) will make sure that they learn to do a good show for the listeners. Remember that their OWN money is at stake. I believe that's the perfect incentive for aspiring talents to do the best job possible.

If you do disagree with what I said, and still stick to the premise that "no good talents brokered their shows before", please provide us with the "proper" way to build a listener base, and how to get a gig with a station as an UNPROVEN talent, since you don't believe in brokered programming.

The transformation of so many AM stations into what one wag calls "paytoilets" is a tragedy, as it has deprived an entire generation of would-be talents of a place to develop their schticks.

I disagree with this. Again, I challenge you to enlighten us on how to get on the air when more and more stations are shunning aspiring talents in favor of the "easy road"--stations that commence to putting on syndicated show after syndicated show, after syndicated show. These stations offer virtually NO aspiring talent an opportunity to do their own shows--they always require an ungodly amount of experience before they even interview them. Again, I do agree that this isn't the best option for those with NO experience, but I do believe it provides those with experience with an option to do their shows, build their audience, and gain the necessary experience to eventually qualify for the rare openings that take place in this industry.
 
A program director I know said that brokering teaches you so many bad things that you have to unlearn before going back to "real" radio.

The people who succeed in brokering are not the best talents. Rates are so high that you're either forced to a small signal no one can hear, or you're forced to spend half your day selling spots, in competition with real salespeople who've honed their craft. You spend so much time trying to become a mediocre salesperson that you become a sub-mediocre host.

And that's what the most successful brokered hosts are. They resort to cons and unkeepable promises to try to get some money rolling in. They do a half-arsed selling job and a half-arsed programming job. Their learning process becomes frozen in amber because what they've done has brought them a small level of success. They're so used to being "king of nothing" that their horizons become limited. 99.99 percent of brokered hosts never break out of that world. Brokered stations don't care about quality, so you phone your show in. Literally. I can't tell you how many times I've heard someone do an entire show on the phone because they woke up on the wrong side of the bed. A real station with a PD wouldn't put up with that, ever.

There is a Grand Canyon between brokered AM and Rush-Hannity AM. That chasm is only going to open wider when talk moves to FM in most markets in the next few years.
 
A program director I know said that brokering teaches you so many bad things that you have to unlearn before going back to "real" radio.

I echo your sentiments here, and do understand exactly what you are saying, but this doesn't speak to the premise I raised, which was concerning the passion of the talent in question. True enough, if they are lazy, and don't do the things necessary to appeal to a regular radio station, then you are right--they won't do well on regular stations. I believe that it's an issue of how badly the perspective talent "wants it". As I've previously stated, I do believe that one MUST have the necessary training and/or experience with the studio equipment, building a listener base, etc. PRIOR to putting their show on a brokered station.

The people who succeed in brokering are not the best talents.

This statement might be true, but you still haven't told us how should an aspiring talent approach getting his or her show on the air when regular stations are NOT hiring these people. They no longer want to take a chance of unproven talent, and to add insult to injury, many radio stations make the lazy decision to put on syndicated program after syndicated program. So I ask you, respectfully, how does an aspiring talent get on a station without investing in their own shows?

Rates are so high that you're either forced to a small signal no one can hear, or you're forced to spend half your day selling spots, in competition with real salespeople who've honed their craft.

This is ABSOLUTELY true, IF people went into this decision trying to make money right away, and NOT focusing on using this opportunity to gain experience, and build a solid listener base. I would much rather an aspiring talent go this route than do nothing and wait for a station to arbitrarily offer them a spot on their station. Again, an aspiring talent MUST take the brokered opportunity as in INVESTMENT--which means that they are expected to PAY their OWN money, and NOT as a venture that they should expect to make money from. I hope I explained myself well here. I enjoy discussing this with you.

You spend so much time trying to become a mediocre salesperson that you become a sub-mediocre host.

For those that do this, you are absolutely correct. Aspiring talents should STAY AWAY FROM sales unless they are doing this to be a salesperson. They MUST concede to paying THEIR OWN MONEY, and EXPECT nothing in return. This should be approached as TRAINING, experience, and the building of a listener base (i.e. support network). I currently pay to broadcast my show, and I WENT INTO THIS not expecting to make any money. I don't focus on sales at all--I focus on my show--ONLY. If I make money, I take it as a blessing. I do agree with you that you cannot waste energy on sales, when you are supposed to be focusing on being the best talent you can be. This should be treated NO DIFFERENT than attending college--where you spend money now to make more LATER. This is how brokered programming should be used from the client's perspective--to spend money now in order to make money LATER--not now.

They resort to cons and unkeepable promises to try to get some money rolling in. They do a half-arsed selling job and a half-arsed programming job. Their learning process becomes frozen in amber because what they've done has brought them a small level of success. They're so used to being "king of nothing" that their horizons become limited. 99.99 percent of brokered hosts never break out of that world.

If this is the case, then again, you are right on the mark. I do know, however, that I don't facilitate my show like that at all. I know what I'm doing this for, and there's NO WAY that I would waste energy doing anything ELSE. For those brokered talents that have aspirations to benefit from the fruits of their labor, they must take this opportunity seriously--even if they are NOT currently getting paid. Remember that passionate people are willing to do what they are passionate in for free with the same passion that they would have if they were getting paid to do it. If they are approaching this to make money right away, then they are in this for the wrong reason, and they aren't approaching this in the right fashion in the first place.

Brokered stations don't care about quality, so you phone your show in. Literally. I can't tell you how many times I've heard someone do an entire show on the phone because they woke up on the wrong side of the bed. A real station with a PD wouldn't put up with that, ever.

True, very true... Let me tell you how I do shows when I know I'm not going to be there--I do a show from my home studio live, record it, and send it to the station to play. That way they have a fresh show, with the same quality as if I were in the studio. Again, it's all about passion, if you have it, you will do whatever it takes..... and take it seriously. People who phone in their shows have virtually NO INTEREST in succeeding in this business.

There is a Grand Canyon between brokered AM and Rush-Hannity AM.

I agree. I believe that brokered stations would be better served if they operated as training grounds for REAL talents that are truly interested in being a successful host, instead of "meter maids" that don't care who broadcasts on their signals--as long as they are paying the necessary fee associated with it. I think if they would start doing this, they would make more money, and provide a much more meaningful service to their listeners, and their clients... in the long run.

Great points! I'm enjoying this!
 
As for your original question, I asked an acquaintance in the biz, and he gave this answer:

Take the money you would spend on brokering a show, fly or drive to Tampa, and spend it on people who know Clear Channel bigwig Gabe Hobbs and will introduce you to him.

In radio today, he said, WHO you know isn't more important than WHAT you know -- it's the only thing that's important at all.

Certainly beats brokering time on your hometown station for years waiting to be "discovered."
 
As for your original question, I asked an acquaintance in the biz, and he gave this answer:

Take the money you would spend on brokering a show, fly or drive to Tampa, and spend it on people who know Clear Channel bigwig Gabe Hobbs and will introduce you to him.

In radio today, he said, WHO you know isn't more important than WHAT you know -- it's the only thing that's important at all.

Certainly beats brokering time on your hometown station for years waiting to be "discovered."

I can understand your point here, and thanks for answering my question. However, I'm still not convinced that just "getting to know" executives is the LONE answer. I've been to two Talker's Magazine Seminars, and one R&R Talk Radio Seminar, and I've met several executives and other "decision makers" in this industry. I still know several of them. I have gained more ground by paying to do my show, and not sitting back waiting on them than I would have if I had waited on them to make a decision. Not to pull the "race card" in vain, but I believe that your chosen rules of engagement might work better if the aspiring talent were white, middle-aged to old, and male. All we have to do is look at what's currently on the air to confirm my allegations in this regard.

I may be the exception of the rule, and I do realize that. There's no way anyone can doubt my passion to succeed as a talk show host, and honestly I've tried EVERYTHING. I cannot be white, however, I do hope to reach 45+ years old someday soon, but unfortunately (to the industry, I guess) I will remain black, INTELLIGENT (conservative), and unattractive to both "wings" of talk radio. Why? I don't know--I guess I'm "stuck in the middle". I will NOT EVER reside on the Democratic plantation, and I will NEVER be white. I can only hope that I won't be "on the outside looking in" forever though...
 
tjthedj said:
No - PAT SAJAK did NOT start by BROKERING time.

I know. I worked a the same station he did.

WEDC was a BROKERED TIME station. Pat (like myself) was a BOARD OPERATOR there.

Find a small market with a good owner or manager who'll take time to teach you. BEST WISHES!

This guy knows the drill, and is giving you solid advice.

Buying your way onto the air won't work. You will end up a mediocre, bitter host with less money and more issues. You may have some good stories and some decent airchecks, but the guys upstairs will NEVER give you the mic on the weekdays, and won't even consider paying you for it. That's the same school of thought some sorry men have thinking ' I know I'm paying this beautiful escort $$ now to hang out with me...Once she learns what I have to offer, she's gonna give it to me for FREE'!

Go to the small market and schmooze. Get a PD or GM to teach you the basics ( don't go to some 'trade school' and pay thousands of $$ to learn how to use a shortcut or pro tools,try to apprentice instead ).

Also, use what limited resources you have now to get started.Try podcasting. Streaming live, if possible. Get some cheap recording equipment ( a minidisc for instance ) and get out on the street getting 'reaction' on stories of the day. Offer your audio copy to local stations, and try to work that angle..

Keep your head up and butt down, and good luck! :D
 
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