Bring Alternative Rock to NYC!

[XCountry285]

Anyone have any ideas how to revive the Alternative Rock format in NYC? The nation's largest and greatest city is without a rock or alternative rock outlet?!Why?!

 

[mrbrightside]

Good luck getting any sympathy on this board!

You will hear every excuse under the sun, from rock being fragmented to advertisers not wanting to reach A25-54 (tee-hee).

Remember how mad the baby boomers were when the took away CBS FM??

The ratings were low on K-Rock for a simple reason: a stale, stale playlist. The same 90's songs played over and over ad nauseum. How many times can you hear the same RHCP songs?
WRXP was just starting to gain traction when the plug was pulled for the .3 ratings station.

Rock has NEVER been done right in New York. Although I would like a more "alternative" station playing deep cuts, it will never happen. The type of station that has the best shot is one that grabs both the male and female demos, like Radio 104.5 in Philly or Radio 92.9 in Boston. Both are doing quite well.

 

[XCountry285]

Why hasn't anyone thought of that here or at least tried it? it's different cities and markets and demographics but at least to serve the Northern NJ, LI, CT and some parts of NYC & NY itself. It won't do well in NYC I'm sure, but you never know.

 

[Jersey Maiden]

The ratings were low on K-Rock for a simple reason: a stale, stale playlist. The same 90's songs played over and over ad nauseum. How many times can you hear the same RHCP songs?
WRXP was just starting to gain traction when the plug was pulled for the .3 ratings station.

Another possible reason for K-Rock's downfall was their constant identity crisis. It's a good thing to change things up when it's clear something isn't working but do it too much and the strategy will backfire. Which brings me to another point; I loved the 2003-2005 period where they had a little bit of alternative, hard rock, metal, and even rap. As far I'm concerned, the 2005 flip was the beginning of the end. Personally, I'd love an alternative/active combo (which G-Rock also played) but that will probably never happen again.

At this time of year, it sucks even more for New York not to have a rock station. RXP was the best at playing X-mas songs that Lite FM ignored. So far, WDHA has been disappointing in that area. On Tueday, they played John Lennon's "Happy X-mas," which you can also hear on, you guessed it, Lite FM. Which brings me to another question: how do soft rock stations get such good ratings with stale holiday playlists? How weird that play the same songs ad infinitum works for Lite FM, Z100 and the rap stations but not K-Rock.

 

[mrbrightside]

Another possible reason for K-Rock's downfall was their constant identity crisis. It's a good thing to change things up when it's clear something isn't working but do it too much and the strategy will backfire. Which brings me to another point; I loved the 2003-2005 period where they had a little bit of alternative, hard rock, metal, and even rap. As far I'm concerned, the 2005 flip was the beginning of the end. Personally, I'd love an alternative/active combo (which G-Rock also played) but that will probably never happen again.

Speaking of identity crisis- hard rock, metal, and rap do not belong together on the same station. Go strictly alternative, or strictly active/hard rock. Playing both pleases no one (maybe you, no offense I hope).

 

[Jersey Maiden]

Another possible reason for K-Rock's downfall was their constant identity crisis. It's a good thing to change things up when it's clear something isn't working but do it too much and the strategy will backfire. Which brings me to another point; I loved the 2003-2005 period where they had a little bit of alternative, hard rock, metal, and even rap. As far I'm concerned, the 2005 flip was the beginning of the end. Personally, I'd love an alternative/active combo (which G-Rock also played) but that will probably never happen again.

Speaking of identity crisis- hard rock, metal, and rap do not belong together on the same station. Go strictly alternative, or strictly active/hard rock. Playing both pleases no one (maybe you, no offense I hope).

As long as you don't ask me how someone could like their Deathcab with a side of Disturbed or say that I should be ashamed of it, there's no need to worry. I'm a realist and I know that an alternative leaning station has the best chance of surviving in New York. Which is fine since WDHA is already taking care of active.

I just want to know what kind of rap you mean. There are those who fall under the alternative umbrella (Beastie Boys and Rage) and those who simply rapped over a guitar riff that K-Rock favored (Jay-Z in 99 Problems, Eminem in Lose Yourself, and the Roots in Rockstar). But I have to give K-Rock credit for giving the Roots some exposure. When was the last time you heard them on hip hip stations?

Did find RXP's playlist too broad or not broad enough? Compared to defunct stations in the area, I really didn't think RXP covered as much ground. G-Rock, despite its claim as "your rock alternative" also played active rockers like Trapt. And I think I said enough about K-Rock. Sure AC/DC is hard rock but when it came to current music, RXP only played alternative. And then there are artists that get covered by both formats (Nirvana, Soundgarden, Pearl Jam to name a few). I found that WRFF makes more effort to play something different every day ("under the covers" in the morning and bonus track of the day in the late afternoon). Why oh why did RXP never play Sum 41, anyone from Drive Thru Records or 30 Seconds to Mars (ironically, RXP put up a concert album on their FB page last Thursday)?

 

[mrbrightside]

As long as you don't ask me how someone could like their Deathcab with a side of Disturbed or say that I should be ashamed of it, there's no need to worry. I'm a realist and I know that an alternative leaning station has the best chance of surviving in New York. Which is fine since WDHA is already taking care of active.

No need to be ashamed, you like what you like. It's just that if I heard Death Cab (which are so-so), I might keep the station on, but if I heard Disturbed I would change it.

I just want to know what kind of rap you mean. There are those who fall under the alternative umbrella (Beastie Boys and Rage) and those who simply rapped over a guitar riff that K-Rock favored (Jay-Z in 99 Problems, Eminem in Lose Yourself, and the Roots in Rockstar). But I have to give K-Rock credit for giving the Roots some exposure. When was the last time you heard them on hip hip stations?

Rage & Beastie Boys yes (in limited rotation), Jay-Z and Eminem no, they don't fit the format.

Did find RXP's playlist too broad or not broad enough? Compared to defunct stations in the area, I really didn't think RXP covered as much ground. G-Rock, despite its claim as "your rock alternative" also played active rockers like Trapt. And I think I said enough about K-Rock. Sure AC/DC is hard rock but when it came to current music, RXP only played alternative. And then there are artists that get covered by both formats (Nirvana, Soundgarden, Pearl Jam to name a few). I found that WRFF makes more effort to play something different every day ("under the covers" in the morning and bonus track of the day in the late afternoon). Why oh why did RXP never play Sum 41, anyone from Drive Thru Records or 30 Seconds to Mars (ironically, RXP put up a concert album on their FB page last Thursday)?

RXP did a good job with the alternative, however, I did not not want to hear classic rock along with it. That's what Q is for. The whole RXP thing was mostly just bad luck, with them being sold just as they were gaining ground.

 

[TheBigA]

RXP did a good job with the alternative, however, I did not not want to hear classic rock along with it. That's what Q is for.

RXP got its best ratings when it added the classic rock. That should tell you something. What it says to me is that alternative rock is a fringe format in the city and needs some certified hits to bring an audience. The older classic rock fans would like to occasionally hear some current music. And mixing currents with classics is a good way to do it.

But at the end of the day, the census numbers bear out that alternative rock is a format for white males in the suburbs, which is why it's mainly found in NJ, Westchester, and LI.

 

[MarcR]

RXP did a good job with the alternative, however, I did not not want to hear classic rock along with it. That's what Q is for.

But at the end of the day, the census numbers bear out that alternative rock is a format for white males in the suburbs, which is why it's mainly found in NJ, Westchester, and LI.

That's patently untrue! The Alt-Rock format, on average, has an audience composition of 60% male and 40% female, the most gender-balanced of any of the Rock formats, which explains why it's still the most viable of the Rock formats. And incidentally, I don't think 'RXP garnered its highest ratings when it played more classic rock, either.

 

[TheBigA]

That's patently untrue! The Alt-Rock format, on average, has an audience composition of 60% male and 40% female, the most gender-balanced of any of the Rock formats, which explains why it's still the most viable of the Rock formats. And I don't think 'RXP garnered its highest ratings when it played more classic rock, either.

A 60% male format is a majority male format by definition. But either way, my point is it's a SUBURBAN format.

All press reports stated that RXP's final book, after it added classic rock, was its format high.

 

[mrbrightside]

That's patently untrue! The Alt-Rock format, on average, has an audience composition of 60% male and 40% female, the most gender-balanced of any of the Rock formats, which explains why it's still the most viable of the Rock formats. And I don't think 'RXP garnered its highest ratings when it played more classic rock, either.

A 60% male format is a majority male format by definition. But either way, my point is it's a SUBURBAN format.

All press reports stated that RXP's final book, after it added classic rock, was its format high.

Did you listen to WRXP at all? IIRC, they had diminished the classic rock greatly since sign-on. Last time I listened, it was mostly alternative, with fewer classic rock songs. I have no problem with classic rock, it just did not belong on WRXP.

Rock is not a "SUBURBAN" format. Is CBS-FM a "SUBURBAN" format? Is Q104 a "SUBURBAN" format? Alternative, as former Q101 DJ Electra states in this article, http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/culturebox/2011/11/alternative_rock_radio_the_sad_unwarranted_decline_of_fm_rock_stations_.html is subjective. It is NEW rock music that is not getting any airplay in New York, which is unbelievable.

Placing talk formats and classic hits formats on now is extremely short sighted. Young people do not listen to the radio for news. How long can hits from the 60's be played, before the demo ages out? Who is going to be listening to the radio in 20-30 years? I'm assuming current programmers are thinking "not my problem..."

 

[TheBigA]

Last time I listened, it was mostly alternative, with fewer classic rock songs.

Did you listen during the final two months?

Rock is not a "SUBURBAN" format.

Listenership for alternative rock was mainly in the suburbs. Not in the five boroughs. The audience for classic rock and classic hits is much larger and more interested in hearing that music on OTA radio. The audience for alternative rock is smaller and has gone to other platforms like satellite and internet.

The bigger problem for rock music is the lack of investment from record labels and from the music industry as a whole. Not from radio. The music industry needs to focus more on artist development and on promotion of great songs. That's mainly what's missing from new rock music.

 

[mrbrightside]

Last time I listened, it was mostly alternative, with fewer classic rock songs.

Did you listen during the final two months?

New York is my hometown, but I actually live in Philadelphia now, so no I did not listen in the last two months. Thankfully down here, there are many choices for rock on the radio.

Listenership for alternative rock was mainly in the suburbs. Not in the five boroughs. The audience for classic rock and classic hits is much larger and more interested in hearing that music on OTA radio. The audience for alternative rock is smaller and has gone to other platforms like satellite and internet.

I do not have the data to back up where rock was listened to. Do you? I'm not picking a fight, just wondering if that has been proven. As far as going to the Internet and satellite, that was not by choice. It is the only place to hear the music.

The bigger problem for rock music is the lack of investment from record labels and from the music industry as a whole. Not from radio. The music industry needs to focus more on artist development and on promotion of great songs. That's mainly what's missing from new rock music.

Agreed this is a problem.

 

[TheBigA]

I do not have the data to back up where rock was listened to. Do you? I'm not picking a fight, just wondering if that has been proven.

There is a reason why there are multiple radio stations for rhythmic, urban, and tropical music, and it has to do with the population base in the five boroughs. Meanwhile, rock does very well in NJ, LI, and Westchester.

As far as going to the Internet and satellite, that was not by choice. It is the only place to hear the music.

Even in places where there is rock on the radio, fans of the music prefer very narrow internet stations where they can hear the specific mix of music they want. That is impractical for an OTA radio format.

 

[mrbrightside]

I do not have the data to back up where rock was listened to. Do you? I'm not picking a fight, just wondering if that has been proven.

There is a reason why there are multiple radio stations for rhythmic, urban, and tropical music, and it has to do with the population base in the five boroughs. Meanwhile, rock does very well in NJ, LI, and Westchester.

As far as going to the Internet and satellite, that was not by choice. It is the only place to hear the music.

Even in places where there is rock on the radio, fans of the music prefer very narrow internet stations where they can hear the specific mix of music they want. That is impractical for an OTA radio format.

Not exactly. Here in Philly, our 2 rock stations (both play new music) are in the top 10. I know NYC is not Philly, however, the audience is there.

 

[TheBigA]

Not exactly. Here in Philly, our 2 rock stations (both play new music) are in the top 10. I know NYC is not Philly, however, the audience is there.

Philly is a very different market in terms of demographics and where the rock audience lives. And there really isn't much suburban radio except for Trenton or Wilmington.

 

[mrbrightside]

Philly is a very different market in terms of demographics and where the rock audience lives. And there really isn't much suburban radio except for Trenton or Wilmington.

Not true: You forgot about Reading and the Lehigh Valley.
Where I grew up (North Jersey) there were no suburban signals. Both of the Class B's in the area were religious. WDHA was static filled, and 107.1 was unlistenable due to The Breeze. If the NYC FMs were meant to serve only New York City, they would not be so powerful. They were meant to serve the NY & metro.

 

[mrbrightside]

Philly is a very different market in terms of demographics and where the rock audience lives. And there really isn't much suburban radio except for Trenton or Wilmington.

Not true: You forgot about Reading and the Lehigh Valley.
Where I grew up (North Jersey) there were no suburban signals. Both of the Class B's in the area were religious. WDHA was static filled, and 107.1 was unlistenable due to The Breeze. If the NYC FMs were meant to serve only New York City, they would not be so powerful. They were meant to serve the NY & metro.

 

[mrbrightside]

Philly is a very different market in terms of demographics and where the rock audience lives. And there really isn't much suburban radio except for Trenton or Wilmington.

Not true: You forgot about Reading and the Lehigh Valley.
Where I grew up (North Jersey) there were no suburban signals. Both of the Class B's in the area were religious. WDHA was static filled, and 107.1 was unlistenable due to The Breeze. If the NYC FMs were meant to serve only New York City, they would not be so powerful. They were meant to serve the NY & metro.

 

[TheBigA]

Not true: You forgot about Reading and the Lehigh Valley.

The Philly MSA includes those areas.

If the NYC FMs were meant to serve only New York City, they would not be so powerful. They were meant to serve the NY & metro.

I think you're confusing FCC rules and Arbitron markets. Northern Jersey and Long Island are each their own Arbitron ratings markets.