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Bring Back the Shuffle!

S

scoot

Guest
I heard such a fun collection of songs on Friday listening to the Shuffle, things I'd never heard on the radio, or hadn't in years. It was better than Jack for a number of reasons: even more variety, some actual flow to the choices (you would hear themed sets or originals followed by covers,) and no smirky voice-over guy. They also seem to have the most detailed traffic reports in LA.

Here's an idea: Turn 101.1 into "the shuffle," exactly as it appeared this week, then make 1260 a GOOD 50's and 60's oldies station - maybe even call it K-Earth. That way, one can listen to oldies on AM, where they sound better, and 101.1 avoids becoming a fossil. Leave Sinatra to 690.
 
I totally agree. With GREAT imaging, and some competant on-air people (Brain Bierne is availble, I trust), and so clever marketing, The Shuffle could be the GodSend AM radio has been searching for.

I personally would add more 70s-80s, especially the Nuggets that are not heard that much on the radio. You can get very creative with theme weekends, and, indeed, a friendlier, less smarky approach will get some the more disseffected Jack listeners.

To pull it off, it will take a bunch of money just to buy the frequency. 930/KHJ, as you might guess, would be perfect, but I can think of a few stations that would benefit.


> I heard such a fun collection of songs on Friday listening
> to the Shuffle, things I'd never heard on the radio, or
> hadn't in years. It was better than Jack for a number of
> reasons: even more variety, some actual flow to the choices
> (you would hear themed sets or originals followed by
> covers,) and no smirky voice-over guy. They also seem to
> have the most detailed traffic reports in LA.


As for 101.1 flipping Shuffle Oldies, dream on. as for 1260, Sinatra will stay at 1260/540 bacause 690 will be going Spanish after the CCLA/SD arrangement is over.

By the way, before the flaming from the FM-only, All NIN All The Time posters starts, has anyone copyrighted the term, "The Shuffle" as a radio station monkier?

Don
 
BRAIN Bierne?

Nobody is going to purchase 930 AM KHJ to re create Oldies. The closest we came to that was 15 Years ago when CBS could have ran with that idea on 93.1. And Frankly speaking, you did mention that Sinatra and Company will be removed from 690 after the Sale, so Standards seem like Saul's perfect choice for 1260 & 540, it will be his third try with this Format, or is it the 4th?.
 
Re: BRAIN Bierne?

say adios to standards on 690.

> Nobody is going to purchase 930 AM KHJ to re create Oldies.
> The closest we came to that was 15 Years ago when CBS could
> have ran with that idea on 93.1. And Frankly speaking, you
> did mention that Sinatra and Company will be removed from
> 690 after the Sale, so Standards seem like Saul's perfect
> choice for 1260 & 540, it will be his third try with this
> Format, or is it the 4th?.
>
 
You won't believe it ...

> Standards seem like Saul's perfect
> choice for 1260 & 540, it will be his third try with this
> Format, or is it the 4th?.

Would you believe the 5th?

K-Joy
Music of Your Life
Westwood One
K-Surf
KKGO
<P ID="signature">______________


</P>
 
> I heard such a fun collection of songs on Friday listening
> to the Shuffle, things I'd never heard on the radio, or
> hadn't in years. It was better than Jack for a number of
> reasons: even more variety, some actual flow to the choices
> (you would hear themed sets or originals followed by
> covers,) and no smirky voice-over guy. They also seem to
> have the most detailed traffic reports in LA.
>
> Here's an idea: Turn 101.1 into "the shuffle," exactly as
> it appeared this week, then make 1260 a GOOD 50's and 60's
> oldies station - maybe even call it K-Earth. That way, one
> can listen to oldies on AM, where they sound better, and
> 101.1 avoids becoming a fossil. Leave Sinatra to 690.
>

I too enjoyed this "stunt" and also recorded several hours of it. Great idea for a format, but too bad it had to be taken off after only a week.

Personally, I'd like to see the KRTH calls leave with a format change of 101.1,
AKA start fresh.<P ID="signature">______________

Member of the Los Angeles, Phoenix Radio, and California TV moderation team</P>
 
Don't throw the Baby out with the Bath Water

> Personally, I'd like to see the KRTH calls leave with a
> format change of 101.1, AKA start fresh.

Back when Boss Radio was on top, the definition of an 'Oldie'(Golden/Double Golden/Solid Gold/Hall of Fame) was a Song from the past 10 Years. Oldies on KRTH reach back into the 50's, and mostly 60's, that's 40 or 50 Years ago?
KRTH does not need a Call sign or Format Change. What KRTH needs to do is redefine the Oldie, make it contemporary of sorts. An all 80's High energy, Fun, Up Tempo New Wave Style Oldies presentation to compliment sister Station KROQ would take Los Angeles by Storm. And yes I understand that Jack plays some Music from the 80's which is great, but there will always be a difference between 80's Music, and New Wave/Modern Rock 80's music.
 
Re: Don't throw the Baby out with the Bath Water

> > Personally, I'd like to see the KRTH calls leave with a
> > format change of 101.1, AKA start fresh.
>
> Back when Boss Radio was on top, the definition of an
> 'Oldie'(Golden/Double Golden/Solid Gold/Hall of Fame) was a
> Song from the past 10 Years. Oldies on KRTH reach back into
> the 50's, and mostly 60's, that's 40 or 50 Years ago?
> KRTH does not need a Call sign or Format Change. What KRTH
> needs to do is redefine the Oldie, make it contemporary of
> sorts. An all 80's High energy, Fun, Up Tempo New Wave Style
> Oldies presentation to compliment sister Station KROQ would
> take Los Angeles by Storm. And yes I understand that Jack
> plays some Music from the 80's which is great, but there
> will always be a difference between 80's Music, and New
> Wave/Modern Rock 80's music.
>

Why do you keep bringing up this idea? They already have a format that fills that hole of music, it's called Jack FM. And Clear Channel has Star which is heavy on 80's new wave oldies (not to mention sister KBIG's sprinkle of them within their format). There is no more room for them. It would not "complement" KROQ, it would hurt their upper demos and Jack. Exactly what Jack is doing to K-Earth now. No upside. KILL K-Earth off, it has no where to go but down which it is currently doing.

On a side note, why is it that K-Earth is getting NO press from Hollywood Hamilton's morning show. I have not seen it on the KTLA Morning News or (Fox 11's) Good Day L.A. or anywhere else. In fact, in the MSM (mainstream media) I have not seen one story about him.
 
Re: Don't throw the Baby out with the Bath Water

> Why do you keep bringing up this idea? They already have a
> format that fills that hole of music, it's called Jack FM.
> And Clear Channel has Star which is heavy on 80's new wave
> oldies (not to mention sister KBIG's sprinkle of them within
> their format). There is no more room for them. It would not
> "complement" KROQ, it would hurt their upper demos and Jack.

I agree. If anyone attempts an "History of KROQ" 80s format, it will not be Infinity. It could be CC, though, by pushing Star further in that direction (depends on how their numbers are holding up for the key demo over the next few books).

More likely not one of the major players, though.

<P ID="signature">______________


</P>
 
> > I heard such a fun collection of songs on Friday listening
>
> > to the Shuffle, things I'd never heard on the radio, or
> > hadn't in years. It was better than Jack for a number of
> > reasons: even more variety, some actual flow to the
> choices
> > (you would hear themed sets or originals followed by
> > covers,) and no smirky voice-over guy. They also seem to
> > have the most detailed traffic reports in LA.
> >
> > Here's an idea: Turn 101.1 into "the shuffle," exactly as
>
> > it appeared this week, then make 1260 a GOOD 50's and 60's
>
> > oldies station - maybe even call it K-Earth. That way,
> one
> > can listen to oldies on AM, where they sound better, and
> > 101.1 avoids becoming a fossil. Leave Sinatra to 690.
> >
>
> I too enjoyed this "stunt" and also recorded several hours
> of it. Great idea for a format, but too bad it had to be
> taken off after only a week.
>
> Personally, I'd like to see the KRTH calls leave with a
> format change of 101.1,
> AKA start fresh.
>


I don't know about anyone else, but I find most of the stunts stations are doing these days as more entertaining than the real formats, maybe somthing can be done about this?
 
Aren't we forgetting something?

We've missed an entire decade of music! I was amazed ten years ago to see 80's formats coming on the air. Oldies stations at the time were playing exclusively 60's; KOOL formats on AM were playing all 50's, even the bluehairs had their Standards.

And now here's someone else calling for yet ANOTHER 80's format - on KRTH, no less! But there are a hell of a lot of us who grew up in the 70's who are ready for a format that recaps that decade. Why hasn't this happened? The 70's get a bad rap, but there was a lot of great music there. I say it's time, IMHO.

- Doc


> Back when Boss Radio was on top, the definition of an
> 'Oldie'(Golden/Double Golden/Solid Gold/Hall of Fame) was a
> Song from the past 10 Years. Oldies on KRTH reach back into
> the 50's, and mostly 60's, that's 40 or 50 Years ago?
> KRTH does not need a Call sign or Format Change. What KRTH
> needs to do is redefine the Oldie, make it contemporary of
> sorts. An all 80's High energy, Fun, Up Tempo New Wave Style
> Oldies presentation to compliment sister Station KROQ would
> take Los Angeles by Storm. And yes I understand that Jack
> plays some Music from the 80's which is great, but there
> will always be a difference between 80's Music, and New
> Wave/Modern Rock 80's music.
>
 
Re: Aren't we forgetting something?

And now here's someone else calling for yet ANOTHER 80's
> format - on KRTH, no less! But there are a hell of a lot of
> us who grew up in the 70's who are ready for a format that
> recaps that decade. Why hasn't this happened? The 70's get a
> bad rap, but there was a lot of great music there. I say
> it's time, IMHO.


I completely agree that we don't need any more 80's on the radio. Star, KBIG, KOST and now Jack are doing plenty of 80's. The 80's weren't even a very good decade for music, compared to other time periods.

What I was suggesting was that 101.1 become something like this "Shuffle" stunt, which wasn't 80's. It was 50's through today, and perhaps more importantly mixing big hits with forgotten favorites. FM is a good place for something like that, because a good portion of the music is from the 70's on, when most people began listening on FM.

Then put the oldies format (50's and 60's) somewhere on AM, (where it sounds like it did back then,) But for heaven's sake with a more imaginative playlist than the current unlistenable K-Earth.

As for your point about the 70's.....SOME of the 70's has been done to death. Arrow, KLSX, and KLOS played almost all 70's. But it was only the rock side. Disco is all over the place and has been for awhile. But there are certain top 40 70's songs that have been left behind that could be given a fresh airing. Problem is there is also a lot of (IMO) not so great stuff (Cher, Air Supply, "Convoy", "The Streak" "You Light Up My Life") So, a format based only on those tunes would be pretty bad. BUT, thrown in here and there amidst a Shuffle-like format, it's fun and nostalgic.

Whatever ensues, K-Earth cannot last forever doing what they're doing now. SOME format needs to be placed there, and Jack is already taken. OR they need to become a quality oldies station and deliver the goods to a loyal niche oldies audience with a mixture of familiar hits and choice nuggets.



<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by scoot on 06/21/05 03:30 PM.</FONT></P>
 
Re: Aren't we forgetting something?

> And now here's someone else calling for yet ANOTHER 80's
> > format - on KRTH, no less! But there are a hell of a lot
> of
> > us who grew up in the 70's who are ready for a format that
>
> > recaps that decade. Why hasn't this happened? The 70's get
> a
> > bad rap, but there was a lot of great music there. I say
> > it's time, IMHO.
>
>
> I completely agree that we don't need any more 80's on the
> radio. Star, KBIG, KOST and now Jack are doing plenty of
> 80's. The 80's weren't even a very good decade for music,
> compared to other time periods.
>
> What I was suggesting was that 101.1 become something like
> this "Shuffle" stunt, which wasn't 80's. It was 50's
> through today, and perhaps more importantly mixing big hits
> with forgotten favorites. FM is a good place for something
> like that, because a good portion of the music is from the
> 70's on, when most people began listening on FM.
>
> Then put the oldies format (50's and 60's) somewhere on AM,
> (where it sounds like it did back then,) But for heaven's
> sake with a more imaginative playlist than the current
> unlistenable K-Earth.
>
> As for your point about the 70's.....SOME of the 70's has
> been done to death. Arrow, KLSX, and KLOS played almost all
> 70's. But it was only the rock side. Disco is all over the
> place and has been for awhile. But there are certain top 40
> 70's songs that have been left behind that could be given a
> fresh airing. Problem is there is also a lot of (IMO) not
> so great stuff (Cher, Air Supply, "Convoy", "The Streak"
> "You Light Up My Life") So, a format based only on those
> tunes would be pretty bad. BUT, thrown in here and there
> amidst a Shuffle-like format, it's fun and nostalgic.
>
> Whatever ensues, K-Earth cannot last forever doing what
> they're doing now. SOME format needs to be placed there,
> and Jack is already taken. OR they need to become a quality
> oldies station and deliver the goods to a loyal niche oldies
> audience with a mixture of familiar hits and choice nuggets.
>

You can't make a format out of mixing 50's thru today. What is your target demo? The Shuffle was a poor stunt and proved that you can't mix all those years on one station.

There are plenty of songs missing from the radio that would appeal to adults 25-54 - leaning female. KOST, KBIG, Star and Hot all attract a small cell within that larger demo but being so narrowcast (focused) makes them vulnerable. Again, look at the music that was played on Star 98.7's "Totally Whatever Weekends". The Beatles to Gwen Stefani. It sounded and more importantly researched great.
 
As it has been explained to me...

and I too used to think like you, Wu, 70's Pop Music on it's own was very weak, not a lot of 'Production Value' in that era. WW1 tried & failed horribly with this Format. 80's Modern Rock/New Wave pulls from the late 70's thru the early 90's. And it's NOT just a Music format, it was a way of life, at least in Los Angeles. Sure I just heard Pacific Gas & Electric Company doing "Are you Ready", and loved Delaney & Bonnie doing the "Soul Shake", and the Reverend Al Green, before he was a Reverend. Sugarloaf with the long Version of "Green Eyed Lady", or Argent doing a 10 minute Version of "Hold your Head Up". But let's not forget Bo Donaldson & the Heywoods,"Billy don't be a Hero", 1910 Fruitgum Company, Simple "Simon Says", the Bells with "Stay Awhile", Michael Jackson with "BEN", Terry Jacks "Seasons in the Sun", all of the Osmonds, Coven, Sammy Johns "Chevy Van", Hot Butter doing "Popcorn", Gallery "It's so nice to be with You","Meco" with Star Wars, or Marvelous Mike Curb & the Defranco Family too. Are the bad Memories setting in? I need a Tums!

As far as KEARTH goes, I hope KRTH 101 stays on the Air forever. However since the Demo's are changing, so too should KRTH evolve. A 50's Oldie is now 50 Years Old. I remember a big part of Boss Radio were the Golden's or Double Golden's. Imagine if KHJ in 1972 played an Oldie from 1922?. IIRC KHJ in the 70's only used Oldies going back to the mid 60's, and boy did those selections sound old then, and that was over 30 Years ago?

I've been out of the Market for 2500 days. Does KROQ still play their core hits from the 80's? I thought they had moved on. And yes I know Star was doing 80's Weekends and Lunches, playing Rock Lobster into Celine Dion, into Madonna, followed by the Romantics, etc...

And one final thought, if Jack is playing 80's, that's great too. However is it New Wave/Flashback 80's, or just everything under the Sun from the 80's like Star?

> We've missed an entire decade of music! I was amazed ten
> years ago to see 80's formats coming on the air. Oldies
> stations at the time were playing exclusively 60's; KOOL
> formats on AM were playing all 50's, even the bluehairs had
> their Standards.
>
> And now here's someone else calling for yet ANOTHER 80's
> format - on KRTH, no less! But there are a hell of a lot of
> us who grew up in the 70's who are ready for a format that
> recaps that decade. Why hasn't this happened? The 70's get a
> bad rap, but there was a lot of great music there. I say
> it's time, IMHO.
 
In defense of 80's formats

> I completely agree that we don't need any more 80's on the
> radio. Star, KBIG, KOST and now Jack are doing plenty of
> 80's. The 80's weren't even a very good decade for music,
> compared to other time periods.

The problem with 80's formats has always been that most tried to duplicate the wide range of music played on CHRs of the decade. And, since radio moved on to more narrow focii since then, those formats burned out fairly quickly.

That is the reason why, even though the Jack format does pull from a wider range of music, it tends to focus on different genres in each market where it is being done. L.A.'s Jack, as an example, is very rock-focused.

There have been 80's stations that have been reasonably successful by concentrating on new wave/modern rock. The only reason that hasn't been tried in L.A. is that when 80's was the "hot new format" KROQ was still playing a lot of that music. Now that KROQ has moved on and most of its gold is from the 90's, someone might be able to do that format here.

But it won't be K-Earth, because going from pop oldies to modern rock would be too much of a shift in dynamics.

To those who maintain that Star and KBIG fill that niche, my own monitoring of their rotations shows that each has maybe 50 to 60 of the biggest "hits" of the modern rock genre. That wouldn't even make up the hot rotation at an all-modern rock gold station.
<P ID="signature">______________


</P>
 
What is an "Oldie"?

Shifting from Pop Oldies, to Modern Rock 'Oldies' might not be that much of a reach. And while I agree it would be a big change in Dynamics at KRTH for example, I thought we are currently witnessing big shifts at Oldies Stations, and with Oldies Listeners and their preferences?. I do appreciate the distinction you pointed out between an 80's Music Format, and an 80's New Wave/Modern Rock/Flashback Format, these Decade Specific 80's Formats are terrible. Although I have been listening to KROQ since 1973, there came a point in the late 90's when I couldn't handle some of the new Alternative Music played. I realized it must be just me, I am getting older. So a question, within a Cluster like Infinity, would it really be hurtful to have a KROQ, & a KROQ Lite(a Retro Format). If it took some numbers away from KROQ, yet stayed within the Cluster, where is the harm?. KROQ and Infinity are the Modern Rock Experts. As it is now, you must enter another groups cluster to hear these Modern Rock Oldies in L.A., something is wrong?

> But it won't be K-Earth, because going from pop oldies to
> modern rock would be too much of a shift in dynamics.
 
Re: What is an "Oldie"?

> KROQ and Infinity
> are the Modern Rock Experts. As it is now, you must enter
> another groups cluster to hear these Modern Rock Oldies in
> L.A., something is wrong?

Yes, and I figure someone will take advantage of that eventually.
<P ID="signature">______________


</P>
 
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