Buffalo has a new Oldies station

[davideduardo]

Correct.

Wasn't trying to apply the stereotype to all seniors (whatever that means)... or even a majority. I never said that.

By the way, what defines a "senior"? Is it simply chronological age? And, if it is purely age, what is the age? Or, are there other factors (employment condition, for example)? I ask because I think it is relevant to a discussion of WECK.

The fairly standard definition of demographers for “senior” is “55 and over”. It’s not a lifestyle group and not related to work status. It’s like “teenager” and quite specific, although some marketers for purely revenue consideration sometimes say “over 50” is the mark.

 

[CTListener]

The fairly standard definition of demographers for “senior” is “55 and over”. It’s not a lifestyle group and not related to work status. It’s like “teenager” and quite specific, although some marketers for purely revenue consideration sometimes say “over 50” is the mark.

I'm 63 and never encountered any sort of senior discount offers when I was still in my 50s. 60 seems to be the magic number for those.

 

[SirRoxalot]

I would say that the point is kind of moot since Buddy defined his audience at 55+.

 

[davideduardo]

I'm 63 and never encountered any sort of senior discount offers when I was still in my 50s. 60 seems to be the magic number for those.

From an old Yahoo Finance recommendation of AARP membership:

"One of the main advantages of an AARP membership is that you can join at age 50, whereas most senior discounts we found started at 55 or older. AARP memberships also offer other perks. For example, if you're married, your spouse will automatically get a free membership"

- https://finance.yahoo.com/news/aarp-worth-cost-104016985.html

The article talks about many "senior discounts" starting at age 55 (again, 55 seems the "magic number" for "senior")

Denny's has a discount for AARP members (50+) and a "senior menu" for 55 and over with lower prices and smaller portions.

 

[Rusty Bridges]

What's all this age nonsense? Gram and Gramps love the station. They turned it up and ripped the knobs off.

 

[tbolt909]

Buddy has stated that WECK is "designed to sound old & for people who live in the past". That approach could be problematic, as many people don't like to "feel old". He is correct to target 55+ because no other option exists. The ALT format on WLKK is targeting 18-35 year olds, has never hit a 2 share and almost certainly generates little revenue. Their target audience isn't interested or doesn't exist.

WECK has no choice but to target older listeners. The playlist is mostly bland pablum aimed at 65+. The "rebranding" to Oldies hasn't changed this. Maybe a bit more British Invasion might add a little vitality.

In spite of what David E. says, many people 35-65 like eclectic quality Rock & Roll. The Dave Matthews Band just released a new #1 album. Check out the demographics at one of his concerts. Age range is 25-60 year olds. Radio has given up on the AAA format and many potential listeners have moved on from Radio. Of course, David believes that advertisers don't want upscale AAA demographics because they don't respond to ads. Yet, David thinks advertisers will flock to WECK for the "geriatric" demo.

It would be easier to root for Buddy if he didn't make pompous & absurd statements like "The future of Radio leads to Buddy's Radio One". As Clint Eastwood said in "Magnum Force"-- "A Man's Got To Know His Limitations"...

 

[CTListener]

In spite of what David E. says, many people 35-65 like eclectic quality Rock & Roll. The Dave Matthews Band just released a new #1 album. Check out the demographics at one of his concerts. Age range is 25-60 year olds. Radio has given up on the AAA format and many potential listeners have moved on from Radio. Of course, David believes that advertisers don't want upscale AAA demographics because they don't respond to ads. .

Not that many, and most of them are in the older portion of the demographic. I'd imagine the median age at those DMB concerts is closer to 50 than it is to 40. As a 60-something who grew up on rock, I hate to see it -- and related genres -- wither into insignificance, but that's what happening. The changing face of America has this country gravitating to heavily rhythmic genres for its popular music of choice.

 

[Element9]

Observation: Not so long ago I recall the highly-informed Mr. Gleason, on this board or one of the several others on which he posts, presenting an opinion contrary to the Oldies format and its revenue potential. To paraphrase, he offered that upper demos, although having substantial spending power and tending to listen to Oldies formats, had already been "brand hardened" and as such were not easily swayed to try or buy different brands. He offered that advertisers prefer reaching demographics that represent a more malleable mindset. The distinction he makes here is that Mr. Ostrander is a local operator, seeking a niche and having the capability to maximize revenue derived from that niche. Only time will tell if a five share is attained. There's as much argument for the possibility as against, and as we've seen in media over the years, trends and tastes can change as quickly as the winter weather in Buffalo.



Observation: if you've been to a Rolling Stones, Steely Dan, Matthews-Dead show within the last few years you've no doubt noticed more than just a "Touch of Gray" going on there. You've seen walkers, canes, oxygen tanks and wheelchairs. (This is not a value judgment, so spare me the flames.) A recent Goo Goo Dolls show was well populated with 35+ (if not 55+) fans. Music tastes continue to evolve and the Classic Hits and Classic Rock formats seem to reflect this. We've reached a point where Classic Hip Hop formats and Classic Active Rock and Hair Band formats can attract listeners. The 80s are the new 60s.

Observation: Readers here may wish to subscribe (free of charge) to the Lefsetz letter, written by attorney, entertainment visionary and crank-at-large, Bob Lefsetz to get a well-measured perspective on entertainment and technology, as well as social issues.

Disclaimer: I am not Mr. Lefsetz, nor do I represent him or his opinions.


Salutation: Stay cool, Buffalo

 

[TheBigA]

Only time will tell if a five share is attained. There's as much argument for the possibility as against, and as we've seen in media over the years, trends and tastes can change as quickly as the winter weather in Buffalo.

My view on it is it doesn't matter if he gets a 5 share or a 2 share as long as he makes money, and enough money to make it worth his while. That's really all that matters here. As I've said before, it's not a corporate owned station, so the goals are very different, and he can play whatever songs he wants, because at the end of the day, it's his name on the license (or his LLC's name). There are several other single-station owners around the country doing basically the same thing as Buddy, and I'll point out that comparatively speaking, Buddy's doing very well. He's certainly doing better than the previous owner. And he's living his dream. A lot to be said for that.

 

[TheBigA]

Observation: Readers here may wish to subscribe (free of charge) to the Lefsetz letter, written by attorney, entertainment visionary and crank-at-large, Bob Lefsetz to get a well-measured perspective on entertainment and technology, as well as social issues.

I read Bob's blog and have met him at a couple music industry events, and he's hardly "well-measured." He's extremely opinionated, and is a tireless promoter for Spotify. His focus is mainly on the music industry, and as a result dislikes current radio formats and playlists. One thing Bob says a lot is that musicians need to take control of their careers. Don't put faith in labels or radio. Take what you do directly to the people. Bob is also one of those who says to musicians that they don't have to become Justin Timberlake. They just have to develop a small, dedicated fan base and super-serve them. That fan base will appreciate that, and support what you do. I think that's what Buddy is doing with WECK. He could have stayed with Entercom and made a comfortable living. Instead he invested in himself, took his contacts and experience, and poured them into a small AM station with a translator. He's super-serving his fan base, and he's hoping it will pay off.

 

[davideduardo]

Observation: if you've been to a Rolling Stones, Steely Dan, Matthews-Dead show within the last few years you've no doubt noticed more than just a "Touch of Gray" going on there. You've seen walkers, canes, oxygen tanks and wheelchairs.

Is that an intentional exaggeration?

I was at the Rolling Stones / Bob Dylan / Paul McCartney / Roger Waters / Neil Young / The Who concert a year and a half ago, and I do not recall seeing "any of the above". The crowd was, in its majority, over 50 (although there were lots of younger people, too) but it was an active and enthusiastic group and not the stereotype geriatric semi-invalid.

In fact, a typical conversation I heard was about playing pickle ball before each day's shows so that the effects of sitting for nearly 6 hours would not be so extreme.

 

[Element9]

I read Bob's blog and have met him at a couple music industry events, and he's hardly "well-measured." He's extremely opinionated, and is a tireless promoter for Spotify. His focus is mainly on the music industry, and as a result dislikes current radio formats and playlists. One thing Bob says a lot is that musicians need to take control of their careers.

You could take any number of posters on this board and label them "extremely opinionated." As I noted, I don't carry Lefsetz' water, and as youve noted, he's an advocate of super-serving your fans. I mentioned him because he's worth reading, if nothing more than to get a different perspective.

 

[davideduardo]

In spite of what David E. says, many people 35-65 like eclectic quality Rock & Roll. The Dave Matthews Band just released a new #1 album. Check out the demographics at one of his concerts. Age range is 25-60 year olds. Radio has given up on the AAA format and many potential listeners have moved on from Radio. Of course, David believes that advertisers don't want upscale AAA demographics because they don't respond to ads. Yet, David thinks advertisers will flock to WECK for the "geriatric" demo.

Nobody has said that those over 55 all have the same tastes. Some like country, some like classic rock, some like classic soul and r&b. But, just as with young adults and CHR, many have a common ground with Top 40 hits of the era in which they were growing up.

CHR stations have always been cume leaders, and that means that many, many people know the songs and the artists. If one of their options is a station that sounds "comfortable" to listen to and is targeted at their demo, they will listen. I will avoid the "Field of Dreams" references, but there is a niche for such a station in nearly every market, but it requires a local operator and lower operating margin expectations.

The advertisers that use agencies generally don't buy 55+ because the group does not respond well to mass market advertising; at present, few products other than those that are demographic-specific, have campaigns and creative specifically targeted at 55+. In general, it is a bad target for consumer goods, as buying patterns are well established and decisions on change are harder to push. But for local direct accounts... the kind that some of the larger accounts ignore... WECK and stations like it can do a good job of promoting service providers in the local market... not national brands, but local merchants and tradespeople who know seniors generally have spendable income.

As an example, I was in charge of a pre-consolidation operation in what was market 15. We were solidly #1, and had rates that smaller, non-agency accounts could simply not afford. It got to the point that I did not have a single local direct seller on staff, and we only called on agencies. That kind of station leaves a lot of revenue to more specialized operators who can serve smaller accounts.

 

[TheBigA]

You could take any number of posters on this board and label them "extremely opinionated." As I noted, I don't carry Lefsetz' water, and as youve noted, he's an advocate of super-serving your fans. I mentioned him because he's worth reading, if nothing more than to get a different perspective.

I agree with all of this...my only issue was describing him as "well-measured." Unless you're talking about his clothing.

 

[Element9]

Is that an intentional exaggeration?

I was at the Rolling Stones / Bob Dylan / Paul McCartney / Roger Waters / Neil Young / The Who concert a year and a half ago, and I do not recall seeing "any of the above". The crowd was, in its majority, over 50 (although there were lots of younger people, too) but it was an active and enthusiastic group and not the stereotype geriatric semi-invalid.

In fact, a typical conversation I heard was about playing pickle ball before each day's shows so that the effects of sitting for nearly 6 hours would not be so extreme.

Please. I didn't say you'd see a stadium or arena full of geriatrics. I was drawing a reference to an older audience and the fact that those of us who once partied our brains out before the show are a lot more gray and in some cases, still going to shows even if we're using a walker. And as to personal observations, yes, I have seen a few... A FEW... Of those devices at shows in the Buffalo-Rochester area. We're an aging market. This comes as no surprise to me because despite being reasonably healthy, the hips, knees and ankles aren't what they once were.

BTW, not to beat this drum to death, in a recent letter Lefsetz makes reference to going to a show in LA and seeing a few specialized devices, and lots of alter kochers. So there's that... Ain't nobody gettin' younger. Good that they're out there.

 

[CTListener]

Please. I didn't say you'd see a stadium or arena full of geriatrics. I was drawing a reference to an older audience and the fact that those of us who once partied our brains out before the show are a lot more gray and in some cases, still going to shows even if we're using a walker. And as to personal observations, yes, I have seen a few... A FEW...

Why, then, do you insist in couching your descriptions of older folks in such mocking terms, or terms that could be taken as mocking? I'm not talking political correctness here, just common courtesy. Depends, oxygen tanks, cheap buffet restaurants -- they're all part of negative stereotyping of the over-55 set. You make valid points, but the too-cool-for-the-room snark detracts from them.

Oh, and it's alter kockers, not kochers. It's basically Yiddish for "old farts," and is also negative.

And Lefsetz ... a mere musical utopian, who refuses to accept popular music for what it is -- ephemeral and mass appeal. He also thought XM was wonderful under Lee Abrams, who put dozens of channels on the air playing music unfamiliar to 95 percent of potential subscribers and thought that was a great business model. Sirius aimed lower, signed Howard Stern, and was rapidly catching up before it finally bought XM out.

 

[Element9]

Did you miss the part about my "hips, knees and ankles?" What some readers take as snark is meant to be self-deprecating. I'll use that old bromide, "I can say it because I'm in that demo." Yeah, my Yiddish could be better, too. I should have consulted one of my "reformed" friends for the correct spelling. but feh, it's not bad for a goy writing on the fly. You knew what I was taking about. Enough with the kvetching. Be a mensch. And I'll repeat... I don't carry Lefsetz' water. But you have to admit, for as much as he rips radio, and whines about his own maladies, he also writes some compelling stuff that's worth reading. In the mean time, I'll try to avoid pinning the snark-o-meter.

 

[four4rock]

I think the WECK playlist is moving (has moved?) to - relatively speaking - more contemporary tunes. I sense that there's a heavier emphasis on stuff from the 1970's (than, say, the 50's/60's as there seemingly was before). Heck I see there was even something from the late-90's/early-2000's played. At the risk of damaging my 'always bashing; always negative' reputation, I'd give WECK a certain thumbs up if my perception is accurate. The audio quality still sounds "old", but I do understand that's very different than playlist.

 

[Buddy Shula]

I think the WECK playlist is moving (has moved?) to - relatively speaking - more contemporary tunes. I sense that there's a heavier emphasis on stuff from the 1970's (than, say, the 50's/60's as there seemingly was before). Heck I see there was even something from the late-90's/early-2000's played. At the risk of damaging my 'always bashing; always negative' reputation, I'd give WECK a certain thumbs up if my perception is accurate. The audio quality still sounds "old", but I do understand that's very different than playlist.[/QUOTEYou

We do not play late 90's early 2000 Just FYI.

 

[four4rock]

I think the WECK playlist is moving (has moved?) to - relatively speaking - more contemporary tunes. I sense that there's a heavier emphasis on stuff from the 1970's (than, say, the 50's/60's as there seemingly was before). Heck I see there was even something from the late-90's/early-2000's played. At the risk of damaging my 'always bashing; always negative' reputation, I'd give WECK a certain thumbs up if my perception is accurate. The audio quality still sounds "old", but I do understand that's very different than playlist.[/QUOTEYou

We do not play late 90's early 2000 Just FYI.

Hmmm. OK. I thought "He's Got The Whole World In His Hands" was re-release around then. Maybe not. But if we're going by origination date... isn't that tune from, like, the early 20th century +/-? When WECK says they play "oldies", dang, they ain't kidding! Whatev's... still, if my perception (about rolling the average vintage more into the 1970's reflects reality) is correct, I still give WECK a thumbs up. Many here won't give a hoot what I say, but I'm not above giving opinionated credit equivalent to criticism. And, for the record, irrespective of my opinion, I still *hope* it succeeds as a local business.