Buffalo-Niagara Falls Persons 12+ April 2021

[SirRoxalot]

I'd like to thank "TheBigA" and "David Eduardo" for their magnificent demonstration of why radio is in its current state. They are the unfailing representatives of the "iHeart way", which infected several other groups who have either followed them or realized the folly of their ways and have diverged - at least somewhat - from their practices. I'm sure they'll be at the forefront promoting AI as a replacement for live bodies in broadcasting. I can hardly wait for that form of "entertainment" to take hold.

Those of us who actually do the job should be thankful that we have our little "careers" while they last. After all, we know how cushy it is to just do "four and out the door", spending most of our time waiting for the computer to do the real work.

Thankfully, there is some management out there that's more enlightened than our resident Big Corporate Apologists. They're the ones who haven't gone bankrupt - in some cases more than once - or have emerged from bankruptcy and changed their approach by replacing the people who drove them there in the first place. There's a reason that Farid & The Dickey Boys are essentially out of the business. Even the old Jayco boys who started Townsquare are now on the sidelines. I wouldn't call Enter- uh, Audacy or iHeart particularly healthy at the moment. We'll see how that goes...

 

[gr8oldies]

How would you know? Personal appearances? DJs won't do them unless it's in their contract. Let's talk about all the bad habits DJs picked up in the old days. The number of DJs who developed cancer from sitting in a studio when smoking was allowed. All those DJs who fell asleep during their shifts. Not a problem any more. The local DJs who do bits on their morning shows that get them fired. But you're right. They couldn't pay me enough to sit in a studio six days a week. I have better things to do with my time. Thankfully I get paid very well and still work in radio.



Once again, nobody is complaining about getting to reach more people, and not having to wait for a song to end so they can give the time, temperature, and call letters. They know what they signed up for. Nobody is getting this "shoved down their throats." It was all in the job description. If they didn't like working, they should try another line of work.



There are fewer and fewer "dopes" buying radio stations. That's why they end up getting sold to EMF, where they have no local studios or talent. But then again they have no debt either. Or let's talk about the streaming companies. Apple Radio is all VT and all national. I saw where Spotify is looking to hire a national morning show. Likely will be all VT. The shows at Sirius are all national and mostly all VT. So it's not just the "dopes" who are doing radio on the cheap. In fact, you yourself pointed out that Townsquare hired some local talent when they replaced. Jack. So yes, they're "dopes" for doing that.

Spotify will put together a morning show for you every day, with news, lifestyle features and songs from your playlists.

 

[TheBigA]

I'd like to thank "TheBigA" and "David Eduardo" for their magnificent demonstration of why radio is in its current state.

Radio is in its current state because it's what the people want. They want WBEN, WYRK, 97Rock, and WBLK. That's what they want, and that's what they get. People who want radio the way it was 50 years ago can listen to WECK. And if all of that doesn't suffice, you have WBFO. Radio is about choice. You don't like big corporations? Fine, support non-commercial public radio. Or subscribe to Sirius. Or if you want a personal playlist, pay for Spotify. People makes choices, and people determine the future of radio.

 

[gr8oldies]

How would you know? Personal appearances? DJs won't do them unless it's in their contract. Let's talk about all the bad habits DJs picked up in the old days. The number of DJs who developed cancer from sitting in a studio when smoking was allowed. All those DJs who fell asleep during their shifts. Not a problem any more. The local DJs who do bits on their morning shows that get them fired. But you're right. They couldn't pay me enough to sit in a studio six days a week. I have better things to do with my time. Thankfully I get paid very well and still work in radio.



Once again, nobody is complaining about getting to reach more people, and not having to wait for a song to end so they can give the time, temperature, and call letters. They know what they signed up for. Nobody is getting this "shoved down their throats." It was all in the job description. If they didn't like working, they should try another line of work.



There are fewer and fewer "dopes" buying radio stations. That's why they end up getting sold to EMF, where they have no local studios or talent. But then again they have no debt either. Or let's talk about the streaming companies. Apple Radio is all VT and all national. I saw where Spotify is looking to hire a national morning show. Likely will be all VT. The shows at Sirius are all national and mostly all VT. So it's not just the "dopes" who are doing radio on the cheap. In fact, you yourself pointed out that Townsquare hired some local talent when they replaced. Jack. So yes, they're "dopes" for doing that.

I found those weekend overnight shifts to be a great time to catch up on reading between breaks and talking to drunks demanding "Sweet Home Alabama" for the 50th time

 

[tbolt909]

I'd like to thank "TheBigA" and "David Eduardo" for their magnificent demonstration of why radio is in its current state. They are the unfailing representatives of the "iHeart way", which infected several other groups who have either followed them or realized the folly of their ways and have diverged - at least somewhat - from their practices. I'm sure they'll be at the forefront promoting AI as a replacement for live bodies in broadcasting. I can hardly wait for that form of "entertainment" to take hold.

Radio is in its current state because it's what the people want. They want WBEN, WYRK, 97Rock, and WBLK. That's what they want, and that's what they get. People who want radio the way it was 50 years ago can listen to WECK. And if all of that doesn't suffice, you have WBFO. Radio is about choice. You don't like big corporations? Fine, support non-commercial public radio. Or subscribe to Sirius. Or if you want a personal playlist, pay for Spotify. People makes choices, and people determine the future of radio.

How many new listeners are sampling WBEN or 97 Rock? I would wager almost none. They have the same listeners they had 20 years ago. They are just 20 years older.

What you say about choice is true. People have many options now. Big Radio corporations don't like that. The business model was built on buying the competition (other stations). They paid a lot of money and took on massive debt. Now, the competition is not just other stations. Formats like WBUF indicate that they haven't figured that out...

 

[TheBigA]

What you say about choice is true. People have many options now. Big Radio corporations don't like that.

Huh? What are you talking about? Big radio corporations are creating the new options. iHeart has the #3 streaming platform in the country. Audacy is right behind them. All of the radio companies are offering podcasts. That's where the growth is. Not towers and transmitters. Townsquare's CEO says over 50% of their revenue comes from digital. Even with all the investment in digital, radio companies continue to deliver on-air radio for those who want it. No subscription necessary. You don't have to give them your credit card number and personal information. Just tune in, and it's there. No interruption of service during thunderstorms or disasters, and at no cost to users.

 

[gr8oldies]

Huh? What are you talking about? Big radio corporations are creating the new options. iHeart has the #3 streaming platform in the country. Audacy is right behind them. All of the radio companies are offering podcasts. That's where the growth is. Not towers and transmitters. Townsquare's CEO says over 50% of their revenue comes from digital. Even with all the investment in digital, radio companies continue to deliver on-air radio for those who want it. No subscription necessary. You don't have to give them your credit card number and personal information. Just tune in, and it's there. No interruption of service during thunderstorms or disasters, and at no cost to users.

Almost anyone can create a podcast and be distributed by iHeart, Audacy, Spotify and a dozen others (getting listeners and/or sponsors is up to you though). We aren't going back to the "sitting behind a board for 6 hours" model.

 

[Rusty Bridges]

There are more than 2 million podcasts available, according to Podcast Hosting

Google "Top Podcasts" and a seemingly endless list will come up. Some podcasts actually are informative, entertaining and intelligent, but most are not. Many of the morning show podcasts are extended versions of bad bits that were on the air. That doesn't seem like a good way to reinforce or expand your brand. Isn't that what put the 97 Rock morning show behind the 8-ball? Thank NPR, PRI, the NY Times and about a dozen other responsible outlets for consistently producing good work.

 

[tbolt909]

Almost anyone can create a podcast and be distributed by iHeart, Audacy, Spotify and a dozen others (getting listeners and/or sponsors is up to you though). We aren't going back to the "sitting behind a board for 6 hours" model.

And there's no need to. The days when jocks had some creative control ended long ago. It takes no effort to read liner cards saying "Follow us on Facebook". Some Radio stations used to be "entertaining". I don't mean jocks blathering on & on about themselves or what they had for dinner. That actually meant introducing new music to listeners and creating a connection by saying something interesting. That actually requires "talent"...

 

[gr8oldies]

And there's no need to. The days when jocks had some creative control ended long ago. It takes no effort to read liner cards saying "Follow us on Facebook". Some Radio stations used to be "entertaining". I don't mean jocks blathering on & on about themselves or what they had for dinner. That actually meant introducing new music to listeners and creating a connection by saying something interesting. That actually requires "talent"...

Half of the formats are library formats. No new music to introduce. The challenge is getting someone to put down their device to listen to a DJ talking over intros.

 

[CTListener]

You don't like big corporations? Fine, support non-commercial public radio. Or subscribe to Sirius.

Liberty (SiriusXM) isn't my idea of a spunky underdog fighting big corporate radio. It's a huge corporation that does "radio" outside the FM and AM bands, and charges for it.

 

[ckg279]

(A) Persons familiar with the station say music was always scheduled by a local PD. The station had an active promotions department. Jack FM was prominent on billboards and local TV. Liners were tailored for Buffalo.

(B) IIRC, Buffalo Jack-FM debuted in 2005 when WBUF was owned by Infinity. Howard Stern may still have been on morning drive in the first few months before leaving for Sirius. Maybe. That was 16 years ago. BTW, Toronto also had a Jack-FM on 92.5. Toronto Jack could be heard in some parts of the Buffalo MSA and Buffalo Jack could be heard in parts of the GTA. Very weird. IIRC, Toronto Jack a few years later flipped to Country and then to CHR, Kiss FM CKIS, which remains today.

ALMOST but not quite when it comes to Toronto's CKIS. It signed on the air in 1993 as CISS FM 92.5(doing country), then Rogers bought the station from Rawlco and switched format in 1999 to CHR as Kiss 92 FM(the story of how the format change was done is wild in and of itself), later shifting to rhythmic top 40. In 2003, it became 92.5 Jack FM....and finally in 2009, top 40 returned as CKIS(Kiss 92.5).

 

[TheBigA]

Liberty (SiriusXM) isn't my idea of a spunky underdog fighting big corporate radio. It's a huge corporation that does "radio" outside the FM and AM bands, and charges for it.

In fact the market cap for Sirius alone is $25 billion, which makes it bigger than the entire broadcast radio industry.

 

[davideduardo]

I'd like to thank "TheBigA" and "David Eduardo" for their magnificent demonstration of why radio is in its current state. They are the unfailing representatives of the "iHeart way", which infected several other groups who have either followed them or realized the folly of their ways and have diverged - at least somewhat - from their practices. I'm sure they'll be at the forefront promoting AI as a replacement for live bodies in broadcasting. I can hardly wait for that form of "entertainment" to take hold.

No, we will be, as most of us have been for decades, at the forefront of asking listeners what they like and trying to provide it for them.

I don't know what you refer to as the "iHeart way". Following the Great Recession more than a decade ago, radio revenues dropped considerably. Add in the effect of PPM, which showed actual listening time to be about 35% less than in the diary, which caused proportionate rate reductions. So, as a result, station owners, whether in New York and LA or Bemidji, MN or Elko, NV, had to adjust to about 65% less revenue today than in the year 2000.

At the same time, we'd been seeing since the 90's a change in what listeners wanted as far as air talent. The days of "Teddy Turntable" talking over the intro and showing his skill of hitting the post are gone. One of the examples was the huge success of Jack and Jack-like adult hits formats with no live jock; like the "Un-Cola" we had the "Un-Radio" because people who listen did not want the same things as they did in the 50's and 60's.

In most of the rest of the world, station groups only invent the wheel once, originating in a main city and rebroadcasting over dozens if not hundreds of transmitters and boosters all over each nation. In other words, the model US networks had in the "Golden Age" of the 30's and 40's and which TV has today.

And then there is the simple fact that radio is not in the transmitter and tower business. We are in the audience-delivery-to-advertisers (or supporters for public radio) business. AM and FM don't matter... it is about people wanting our product on all delivery systems. And the fact that most delivery systems preferred today are at least national, we need to look at our product as national, too.

Sure, we can create a national brand with streaming the main distribution channel, but we can also supplement with local radio that contains certain localized elements like traffic, weather, sports and news if appropriate. But we can't continue to do 70's radio today.

Those of us who actually do the job should be thankful that we have our little "careers" while they last. After all, we know how cushy it is to just do "four and out the door", spending most of our time waiting for the computer to do the real work.

And, if a good personality is not doing at least a handful of stations as well as participating in the online presence of the brand, they are already out of date.

Thankfully, there is some management out there that's more enlightened than our resident Big Corporate Apologists. They're the ones who haven't gone bankrupt - in some cases more than once - or have emerged from bankruptcy and changed their approach by replacing the people who drove them there in the first place. There's a reason that Farid & The Dickey Boys are essentially out of the business. Even the old Jayco boys who started Townsquare are now on the sidelines. I wouldn't call Enter- uh, Audacy or iHeart particularly healthy at the moment. We'll see how that goes...

Farid and Dickey got where they are because they were not visionary, paid too much for stations and did not know how to actually run them.

Dickey's company looks like it may have a second bankruptcy under the management of a person who was hired due to her experience in bankruptcies. And Farid, who was never a radio person, is out of it anyway.

iHeart was not hurt by programming and station management. It was nearly destroyed by a consortium of investment bankers who paid way too much to the Mays group and was, then, hit by a horrible recession. Since then, the management has been trying to recover while moving as much towards new media as they can.

Townsquare now gets half its revenue for new media, but they use radio as a nucleus because radio still reaches about 90% of the adult population weekly.

Yeah, lots of things have been done "wrong" in retrospect. My big gripe is with transactional buying, which is causing more harm to revenue than not having a live jock form 7 PM to Midnight.

 

[davideduardo]

How many new listeners are sampling WBEN or 97 Rock? I would wager almost none. They have the same listeners they had 20 years ago. They are just 20 years older.

That's a trick question if I ever saw one. Those stations target the high end of the sales demos, so they naturally attract people in their 40's and 50's.

Classic rock stations do quite well nationally in 35-44 and even, to an extent, in 25-34. But the music's core is basically older adults. And if you play gold in any format, your listenership will predominantly be those who were teens and young adults when the songs were hits.

What you say about choice is true. People have many options now. Big Radio corporations don't like that. The business model was built on buying the competition (other stations). They paid a lot of money and took on massive debt. Now, the competition is not just other stations. Formats like WBUF indicate that they haven't figured that out...

No, WBUF just shows that a relatively large percentage of new products in any line don't work as planned.

For years, P&G was considered the most successful brand innovator with all kinds of products and brand extensions. But the fact is that over half of their new products did not make it, even with extensive research and test marketing. The same goes for new radio formats.

 

[gr8oldies]

If chatty DJs made all the difference between bankruptcy and not, there would be chatty DJs. Same with obscure songs.

 

[Rusty Bridges]

BTW, Toronto also had a Jack-FM on 92.5. Toronto Jack could be heard in some parts of the Buffalo MSA and Buffalo Jack could be heard in parts of the GTA. Very weird. IIRC, Toronto Jack a few years later flipped to Country and then to CHR, Kiss FM CKIS, which remains today.

ALMOST but not quite when it comes to Toronto's CKIS. It signed on the air in 1993 as CISS FM 92.5(doing country), then Rogers bought the station from Rawlco and switched format in 1999 to CHR as Kiss 92 FM(the story of how the format change was done is wild in and of itself), later shifting to rhythmic top 40. In 2003, it became 92.5 Jack FM....and finally in 2009, top 40 returned as CKIS(Kiss 92.5).

Thanks for sorting that out. Wouldn't mind reading the details of that Country to CHR switch. The irony of the Country format on CKIS Toronto 92.5 is ... WBEE Rochester 92.5, also Country.

 

[ckg279]

Thanks for sorting that out. Wouldn't mind reading the details of that Country to CHR switch. The irony of the Country format on CKIS Toronto 92.5 is ... WBEE Rochester 92.5, also Country.

Would a rundown suffice(via CKIS' page on Wikipedia, as well as notes from me)? In brief: After the announcement that Rogers would buy CISS from Rawlco in February 1999(the deal wouldn't be completed until August, but Rogers took charge of the programming via an LMA), the staff at CISS was taken out for a party to celebrate the station's success...and when they got back, they found out that their access passes no longer worked and they were out of a job. Thus, they became Power 92-BRIEFLY; Evanov, which owned CKDX/88.5 in Newmarket(and was doing a dance music format)as well as Corus Entertainment(who had several stations using that positioner and was looking to make CILQ(Q107)into using the same positioner objected to it strongly...and within weeks they became Kiss 92 FM. (BTW, Kris James(better known as KJ)was rehired by CISS to handle middays(and was doing AM drive before Mad Dog & Billie did the wakeup shift).(KJ is currently doing PM drive at CHBM(boom 97.3).)

 

[Buddy Shula]

'BUF launched a new format and stood to benefit from the 97 Rock fiasco.
Star, The Breeze and WHTT are direct format competitors. WECK isn't.

WECK is doing very well. But that's not news. That's why we haven't seen more threads on this.
By the way Buddy, when are Jon Summers and Harv Moore coming back from their COVID-19 hiatus?

They are not coming back. THEY chose not too. And WECK is a direct competitor to HTT and Breeze. They along with BEN are the stations that WECK listeners choose when they are not listening to WECK

 

[ckg279]

And there's no need to. The days when jocks had some creative control ended long ago. It takes no effort to read liner cards saying "Follow us on Facebook". Some Radio stations used to be "entertaining". I don't mean jocks blathering on & on about themselves or what they had for dinner. That actually meant introducing new music to listeners and creating a connection by saying something interesting. That actually requires "talent"...

I hate to keep harping about Toronto's CHBM(Boom 97.3), because their format is the exact opposite of introducing new music to listeners. That said, they create a connection to listeners by saying something interesting or doing interesting things(take a look at morning man Stu Jeffries; he does "Tell Me Something Good" weekday mornings(putting together a few good news stories every day; some of them make Boom's Facebook page)...and has, on occasion, put together some memorable rants(i.e. when a number of people were killed in Nova Scotia).) They have a series called Behind the Vinyl, which takes a behind the series look at some of the songs the station plays.