Buffalo Summer Phase 2

[Element9]

Buffalo-Niagara Falls Summer Phase 2, June-July-August, has been posted on the Radio & Records website.

Up: WBEN, WBLK, WGRF, WKSE, WJYE, WTSS, CKEY, WWWS, WDCX, WWKB

Down: WYRK, WBUF, WEDG, WGR, WHTT (really down)

Is it too early to say the AC battle has already been decided, as WJYE and WTSS go toe to toe while stepping on WHTT? Have those Oldies listeners finally realized that Elvis has left the building? And followed him out the door? Didn't Mix 92.9 have a good book or two before it faded into oblivion?

No surprise that WGR slides a bit more. Hell, it's Summer and conspiracy theories about the Bisons don't draw as many listeners as speculating about the fate of the Bills and Sabres.

Have Opie & Anthony run their course on the Edge? Tick, tick, tick... OK, blame the "Best Of" shows that ran while they were vacationing.

And what of WYRK, the market's perenial top-o' the-haystack-station? Yee-haw! Sure, "it's only a trend" and WYRK will most likely be back with big numbers once the entire Summer book is compiled, but it does make one wonder. What if this is the beginning of an even bigger trend? Summer listening (or lack thereof)? Lousy diary return? Moon and stars out of alignment? Or could it be? Naw. It's the mighty WYRK. The lone (FM) country station in the market. Ahh hell, it's Summer. The real bullets fly in the Fall book which just happened to begin... today.

-7.8- (down from 9, but it's "only a trend")

 

[Jay F]

With two ACs in Buffalo as well as a JACK, there is no hole for WHTT to play so much music from the 80s, 90s and today.

Citadel should either take WHTT back to 60s/70s oldies OR flip to country and take on WYRK. The current formula is not going to work

 

[Yeziknoradio]

With two ACs in Buffalo as well as a JACK, there is no hole for WHTT to play so much music from the 80s, 90s and today.

Citadel should either take WHTT back to 60s/70s oldies OR flip to country and take on WYRK. The current formula is not going to work

Going Country won't help WHTT, it'll just tear away at 106.5 and leave WHTT with either nothing, or a small bite off WYRK numbers.

Right now they have *something*, so why take the risk?

 

[Steven21]

Going Country won't help WHTT, it'll just tear away at 106.5 and leave WHTT with either nothing, or a small bite off WYRK numbers.

Right now they have *something*, so why take the risk?

Well, which makes more sense:

4 stations trying to split a 20 share worth of AC/HotAC listeners, or 2 stations trying to split a 10 share worth of country listeners?

 

[Jay F]

Going Country won't help WHTT, it'll just tear away at 106.5 and leave WHTT with either nothing, or a small bite off WYRK numbers.

Right now they have *something*, so why take the risk?

Well, which makes more sense:

4 stations trying to split a 20 share worth of AC/HotAC listeners, or 2 stations trying to split a 10 share worth of country listeners?

and with another station the country share may even grow a little more.

 

[SirRoxalot]

WHTT's Phase 2

Boys, let's not get ahead of ourselves. It's a TREND. A SUMMER BOOK TREND. Summer books are notoriously fickle (not in the Rochester way). WHTT is the victim this time. Other stations have seen results like this before - including Star and WJYE.

Splitting a 10-share with WYRK sounds like a great idea, but country audiences have a reputation for being very loyal, and WYRK is a very good station. The likelihood of WHTT splitting the country audience in half is laughable.

WHTT may have overreached by adding too much new music and too much crossover (like Rascal Flatts), and abandoning its core. Perhaps some review and retrenchment is in order, but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

 

[SpareChange]

SRox seems to have nailed it here. By the way, thanks for the perspective on Mom & Pop AM's in a previous thread. Your point was clear. Back to this thread, it seems WHTT was making and filling a nice nest for itself about a year ago when it was doing a Classic Hits thing with lots of 70's, some 60's and a few 80's songs mixed (oh, sorry) in. It sounds like they've gone to an extreme and lost some listeners who liked the station as it was. It may be that some listeners don't know the music or what they expect from the station because it's too different.

 

[ThePickleReport]

A year ago when it was doing a Classic Hits thing with lots of 70's, some 60's and a few 80's songs mixed (oh, sorry) in. It sounds like they've gone to an extreme and lost some listeners who liked the station as it was. It may be that some listeners don't know the music or what they expect from the station because it's too different.

I thought they sounded good a year ago. I tuned in the other day and heard a newer Bon Jovi song. I thought I had tuned in to Star 102.5 by mistake. Yuck.

 

[SpareChange]

Mix 104 is doing an Ultimate 80's weekend which sounds pretty good. Some excellent 80's songs that don't get any play on WJYE and limited play on WTSS, Go-Go's, Romantics, Tina Turner, The Police, Springsteen and U2. Now they're running promos for the Ultimate 80's, weeknights from 7 to 9. I'm guessing they're aiming at Women around 35-45 with this. "Simply Irresistible" by Robert Palmer was playing in a store while I was walking through the Galleria. Great song with a great MTV video. It was a women's store, catering to 30-50 year old women, I would guess. I didn't bother stopping in to check out the fashions. Mix sounds pretty good this weekend.

 

[NeedsMoreCowbell]

The more I read the postings of Roxalot and Spare Change, the more convinced I am that they both either work for Citadel, or are very good friends with someone who does. Sheesh - enough already.

 

[SpareChange]

No sir, but close. I can only speak for myself. I work for an NPO that has relationships with all Buffalo radio and TV stations and most print outlets. I'm mildly disappointed (in myself) that I would appear to be shilling. In previous posts, I believe I've praised WYRK and other worthy stations.

 

[SirRoxalot]

Watching and Waiting

The more I read the postings of Roxalot and Spare Change, the more convinced I am that they both either work for Citadel, or are very good friends with someone who does. Sheesh - enough already.

So, which part of my post indicates THAT?

It's been interesting watching WHTT reinvent themselves. They're one of the few stations that has made a significant change in programming over the last few years. Star had a down period a little over a year ago, but has come back and dominates 35-44. WJYE hasn't changed their format significantly, but they have cut staff and reduced costs. It's been interesting watching to see if they'll stumble. If you have access to the demos, you know that there's been a lot more movement than the 12+ would indicate.

So, Cowbell, who's your dog in this fight?

 

[NeedsMoreCowbell]

No dog, just observing - and a) bored by the sheer volume of HTT talk, b) amazed YRK doesn't rate more space here, being #1 and all, c) confused that there's never a mention of BLK, nary a word about EDG or CKEY, e) amused that there's hardly a peep about BEN *today* (but lots of it from 40 years ago)....

I guess this board is like real life: we like what we like, and we talk about it. If that means mostly living in the past, so be it.

 

[Element9]

Sheridan gospel WUFO-AM/Buffalo has named promotions director Dwayne “Landers” Cumberlander program director, replacing PD/MD Lee Pettigrew. Cumberlander began his radio career at WUFO as an intern 29 years ago and returned in March 2006 as promotions director. “I truly look forward to the challenge of programming at WUFO, and greatly appreciate the opportunity Sheridan Broadcasting has given me,” says Cumberlander.

-There. Long overdue. Oh, and WXRL's processing sounds great on the Classic Country show they run weekdays around 9 o'clock.

Seems we're all a bunch of malcontents, shills and dog fighters, so no apologies necessary from anybody, SpareChange. Consider yourself part of the community because you've been "called out." Welcome to the asylum it's not for the thin skinned, egos and opinions get bruised, but no skin gets cut here.

I love these boards, they're cheaper than any psychiatrist around. I like the personalities and the topics. Even the incongruent text spellers and hosers are interesting and have a place here. Like any meeting place, there are posters you like more than others. Occasionally we go to the mattresses, but overall, we're like a bunch of Unitarians.

Don't like a thread? Don't respond. Wanna talk about Buffalo Edge (man, Opie and Anthony suck... and Shredd & Ragan? They're doing The Daily Show. They're gonna kill that old white guy they're up against on WBEN) and WYRK (never gets its due here, unless I mention them... what a great morning show), start a thread.

Fact is, there have been a lot of varied posts here that have mentioned WXRL, WLVL, WBTA, WBEN, WSPQ and the Edge.

The Canadian boys frequently bring up CKEY and KISS and the Rochester guys write about WHAM and WXXI.

The big stations get the most ink here, as do the stations that make programming changes, good, bad, stupid, brilliant. (BTW, Christmas music isn't too far off. Who'll go fuirst? My bet is WJYE. Sometime around Halloween.) When the 12+ numbers come up, we're all over them.

And how can you blame anybody for reminiscing about WKBW, WGR, WBEN and WEBR? They were classic stations and we seem to like our Classic here in Buffalo... and AM too.

Overall, it's not a bad place to come to blow off steam and rag on the bogus and the beneficial aspects of media and the radio business.

-9-

 

[Bob1370]

WHTT probably would have been best served not trying to be another AC station (which is what it often sounds like today) but remain a personality 'classic hits' station like it was a year or two ago. That format was a winner. And when you look at what's happened down in NYC with WCBS-FM, which apparently soared from #23 to #2 in both 12+ and 25-54 in the latest trends in market #1 with personality classic hits, it may be the format of the future for stations everywhere who seek 30-54 listeners.

 

[Philip_Airtime]

Keep this in mind, gang, that WHTT could not do a "classic hits" style format now because it would infringe on 97 Rock. I agree that would be a dynamite format. My all time favorite FM format was WHTT's classic hits that ran from 1986 through 1989. I was doing PR at the time. And I remember calling Ron Rice (BTW, congrats, Ron, on your Hall of Fame induction) thanking him for bringing the format to Buffalo. For a year and a half prior to WHTT's classic hits, there was no station in Buffalo playing rock music from the '70s. Sure, the Bear (WBYR 107.7) included some '70s tracks in its AOR format. But it wasn't enough. When 97 Rock returned in late 1988 with its classic rock format, WHTT's numbers started to go down. And by '89, Ron correctly saw a market for oldies, and thus, Oldies 104 was born. I can understand Citadel trying to compete against WJYE and WTSS for the women's market and changing WHTT to its current mix format. The group was really top heavy with men before that. But I have to admit that I would enjoy hearing Jim Pastrick once again playing classic hits! Now where did I put my paint-stained Classic Hits tee-shirt?

 

[Lost Listener]

Hello All,

I’m a long time reader to this forum, mainly since the demise of KB a couple of years ago. I keep seeing all the talk of bringing some kind of oldies format to the Buffalo airwaves. I see the posts about the AC format and who does what well, etc.

Before things seem too long winded, the point I’m going to be making is that the music has evolved over time so that radio formats that worked with one type may not work on another. Top 40 is the biggest example of this.

Top 40 fractured in the mid 70’s with the onset of Disco. You either loved it or you hated it. I was one that hated it. No teenage male would be caught dead listening to the Bee Gees Stain’ Alive. It was a good thing we had a choice. I, along with many others, discovered Album Oriented Rock on QFM 97. Yep, I left KB for the FM side in 1975 and never went back until its rebirth as an oldies station. Getting back to Top 40. In the 50’s and 60’s, Top 40 was a mix of Country, R&B, Standards, and Rock. From Jimi Hendrix to Johnny Cash, the Four Tops to Janis Joplin. It covered it all. Everyone listened to it. Then in the mid 70’s with disco and such, people made other choices. This went on into the 80’s and 90’s. Top 40 today is not the same as it was 40 years ago regarding the types of music represented. Just look at all the different Bill Board charts that you have today.

So, making the “new” oldies radio format using 70's and 80's music work like the “old” oldies format isn’t going to happen. Take WHTT, for example. They are playing the music I turned off back in the 70’s and 80’s. Focusing on women only turns off a lot of men, just as a men’s only format turns off women (today's 97 Rock). Oldies formats of back when pleased all because they pleased all when they were popular. 70’s and 80’s won’t do it. Too many choices. The closest stations in Buffalo that come close to pleasing all today are Jack and the Lake. Even they can get annoying to me. But no one’s perfect.

Personally I’d like to hear Elvis and the Beach Boys on the air in Buffalo again, but I do like Classic Rock too, so I’m content with the Lake and to some extent, Jack FM.

Joe

 

[Element9]

And wouldn't it be interesting to find out how many "loyal listeners" The Lakes p1sses off if and when they switch to Classic Hits. Don't laugh, it's been discussed inside 500 Corporate Parkway and it might be a good move, save for the station's anemic signal. BTW, 97 Rock's healthy 25-54 Women numbers might surprise some readers here. Plenty of cougars and lizard-skinned-chain-smoking 49 year old babes dig the station and its live, local, long time personalities.

-9-

 

[Lost Listener]

I don't want to ruffle any feathers here. I'm not in the radio business. I'm a music collector in my mid 40's. Radio, for me is about music. I have a large vinyl collection and miss the days of Q-FM97, Z-98, the original WBUF, 103-PHD and even that crazy WUWU. I live just south of Batavia and have the luxury of getting Rochester, Buffalo and Toronto radio. I have to say, with all the potential variety, radio is starting to resemble today's cars. Its all the same. Maybe I'm in the minority as far as listeners go. Like I said earlier, I grew up listening to 50's and 60's Rock-n-Roll and have found music I like right along, but lately, not from the radio. Maybe its because of the big corporate thing. I mean you can find a MIX something point something in every town. Its still all the same. Thats why when I do listen, I'm looking for something different than AC or country. Country is another story for some other post, what happened to it? Did AC and country have a one night stand? Surely its not Dad's country.

The stations I have preset and switch about are the Fox 95.1 out of Rochester, the Lake and Jack. These have their quirks too. Sometimes the Lake will go off on a tangent with some wierd stuff and its "click" onto something else. I do wish there was some music on AM though. My vintage T-Bird only has AM and WJJL has not got their act together to keep me there. There is potential with the format, but the dead air, stuck rotations and such are a turn off.

So, I guess I'm a market that most stations don't want to deal with. Keep up the great posts here and I'm watching and reading and hoping that something exciting for me will be coming to Buffalo Radio.

Joe

 

[Mike Sheridan]

I have moved from Buffalo long ago so that's part of the reason why there is so much talk about the good old days of Buffalo radio. There are probably others who have done the same. It's probably boring to many but I have really enjoyed the behind the scenes look that people who were on the inside shared here.

I try to keep up with what's going on in WNY radio both Buffalo and Rochester. On visits I must admit that with only a few exceptions I found the current state of radio in WNY to be about the same as most of the country... still professional but boring and predictable. Not at all like it was.

I'm male and like some disco not a hard rock person at all. Then again I started collecting 45's in 1958 when I was barely 6 years old. Music and radio have always been a big part of my life. I am really burned out not by Disco but songs by England Dan, Elton John and Billy Joel. I also feel that Jimmy Buffett's Margaritaville has been played so much it should be forever banned from the radio. If you like the song I apologize. There were more '70's hits than what we hear on today's Oldies and A/C radio, lots more.

Don't accuse the people here of living in the past. Some are just telling good stories while others like me are trying to uncover some radio history that often gets lost or overlooked....it's been fun!