Nice upward spikes for WBUF and WKSE. A little of the summer doldrums setting in for WGR. CHWO up to a 3.1 in the trends---not surprising since the market doesn't have an adult standards or oldies station.
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Buffalo: Summer trends are in.
- Thread starter ThePickleReport
- Start date
It's nice to see CHWO ticking up steadily in each trend. Can't wait until it beats another one of Gried's Entercom stations the way it beats The Lake, WWWS and of course, KB (yes I know this is 12+ we're seeing here). No way it makes any sense to put standards on KB before WECK returns to it because, as we can all see, no one will listen to music on AM....
Tales of CHWO
Hey, CHWO could beat WGR 12+ by the end of summer. Boy, do they miss the Sabres. They're already beating The Lake - a music intensive FM - 12+.
Of course, demos are likely to tell a much different story. I have to believe that CHWO is heavily 55+.
Another interesting trend is that the virtual tie 12+ between WTSS, WJYE, and WHTT has shifted slightly. WJYE is flat, Star is up little, and WHTT is down half a share. Jack is up .8. I'm not sure that there's any real meaning here yet, but it bears watching.
Hey, CHWO could beat WGR 12+ by the end of summer. Boy, do they miss the Sabres. They're already beating The Lake - a music intensive FM - 12+.
Of course, demos are likely to tell a much different story. I have to believe that CHWO is heavily 55+.
Another interesting trend is that the virtual tie 12+ between WTSS, WJYE, and WHTT has shifted slightly. WJYE is flat, Star is up little, and WHTT is down half a share. Jack is up .8. I'm not sure that there's any real meaning here yet, but it bears watching.
Yes, the 12+ numbers are always good for chitter-chatter-titter-tatter here, but the demos likely will tell a different story. Not that we'll see them. Hell, still waiting for the Spring demos to filter down. But keep in mind, this is two months of Spring and one month of Summer, a time that's notorious for unusual radio listening patterns.
The three-way WJYE-WTSS-WHTT AC race is actually a four-way race. Jack might as well be a Rock-Classic-AC format that seems to be doing well at the expense of a few other stations, but apparently NOT 97 Rock, whose trend may prove that a station can run 18 minutes of commercials per hour and continue to attract listeners. Anybody for 20 minutes?
The bloom definitely is off WGR, to nobody's surprise. And those big 12+ numbers for CHWO do look nice, but it's very likely 55+, resulting from a combination of 104 moving away from Oldies and WECK dropping Standards.
KB? Feh! What can be said here that hasn't already been thought, said and written! Fifty thousand Watts o' bilge. Flush twice, it's a long way to the septic tank.
Back channel rumor from a reliable party has it that WECK will be sold to a local station owner. Ramblin' Lou and Family? WLOF-FM?
-9-
The three-way WJYE-WTSS-WHTT AC race is actually a four-way race. Jack might as well be a Rock-Classic-AC format that seems to be doing well at the expense of a few other stations, but apparently NOT 97 Rock, whose trend may prove that a station can run 18 minutes of commercials per hour and continue to attract listeners. Anybody for 20 minutes?
The bloom definitely is off WGR, to nobody's surprise. And those big 12+ numbers for CHWO do look nice, but it's very likely 55+, resulting from a combination of 104 moving away from Oldies and WECK dropping Standards.
KB? Feh! What can be said here that hasn't already been thought, said and written! Fifty thousand Watts o' bilge. Flush twice, it's a long way to the septic tank.
Back channel rumor from a reliable party has it that WECK will be sold to a local station owner. Ramblin' Lou and Family? WLOF-FM?
-9-
Element9 said:Back channel rumor from a reliable party has it that WECK will be sold to a local station owner. Ramblin' Lou and Family? WLOF-FM?
I know the WLOF folks have thought about a Buffalo AM. It would take WECK out of the hands of another commercial owner so it wouldn't hurt Regent. Makes sense.
It may be that one of the colleges, such as Canisius, Medaille or Daemen is interested in WECK as a complement to their media-communications programs.
College Radio
I believe I read somewhere that there's an FM filing window opening up in October. Isn't there still a shot at 92.1 in Buffalo for a non-com?
Canisius, Daemen, Medaille, D'Youville, et al would be better off taking a shot at that frequency instead of one of the AMs.
I believe I read somewhere that there's an FM filing window opening up in October. Isn't there still a shot at 92.1 in Buffalo for a non-com?
Canisius, Daemen, Medaille, D'Youville, et al would be better off taking a shot at that frequency instead of one of the AMs.
KB? Feh! What can be said here that hasn't already been thought, said and written! Fifty thousand Watts o' bilge. Flush twice, it's a long way to the septic tank.
You're talking about the actual programming they run? If so, why?
BTW, Steph, Ed and the others are voicing mainstream views. Check all the opinion polls.
cee said:KB? Feh! What can be said here that hasn't already been thought, said and written! Fifty thousand Watts o' bilge. Flush twice, it's a long way to the septic tank.
You're talking about the actual programming they run? If so, why?
BTW, Steph, Ed and the others are voicing mainstream views. Check all the opinion polls.
Who in their right mind thinks any real number of people are STILL checking out KB to see if there's anything going on? The population of WNY is so out-of-the-habit of visiting that frequency, there is no way ANYTHING will ever flourish at 1520 again. Case closed.
You're talking about the actual programming they run? If so, why?
BTW, Steph, Ed and the others are voicing mainstream views. Check all the opinion polls.
Don't want to take this thread into the world of right wing nut jobs vs. left wing wack jobs, but you make a good point with regard to Rush, Hannity & Orally being on the short side of the opinion polls. Nonetheless, Rush still pulls big numbers, mostly because he's established, has name recognition and he's an entertainer who's listened to by almost as many lefties who despise him as he is neo-cons who worship him. Oh, and plenty of "old people," 70 plus, who go to him for companionship and absorb the simplistic ideolgy which he applies to an increasing complex world.
The point I attempted to make with my snarky little aside is that KB these days is about as doomed a frequency as WJJL. There's no "there" there. Isn't it sad and somewhat telling, that WUFO, WXRL, WLVL and other stations tie or out-rate what was once the market leader? That CHWO thumps KB? That WDCX... ah hell, you get the point.
Now, to be truthful, I believe (rather hopefully or "dopefully," depending upon your view) KB could rise from the ashes, even as a left wing political talker IF Entercom dedicated the same resources to KB as it does WBEN. And if Leslie Marshal was banished from the frequency for life. But this will NEVER happen. It benefits Entercom to NOT revive KB.
If KB had a live, local morning show from 6-9 that offered news, sports, traffic and weather, interviews and commentaries, it might be competitive. Imagine if you will, Shredd & Ragan doing their show (which essentially is a radio version of The Daily Show) in morning drive on KB. Add to this strong service elements such as traffic and weather as well as sports and the station MIGHT attract listeners.
This might, MIGHT, be able to begin the revive the patient, but the service elements have to be present 24-7 in order to establish a station that is seen as reliable and "go to" in times of need. Hmmm... isn't that what WBEN does so well?
As long as E'com runs the show, KB will NEVER break out of its stupor. Even with Standards or Oldies or who knows what the newest, hottest, biggest, baddest format of the day happens to be. Sadly, Hank Nevins and Steve Mitchell may have done more harm than good in their attempt to pump life into KB with the failed Oldies format. It's likely Entercom won't walk down the "music path" again.
Sigh.
Another post. Another 22 minutes spent on a station that dozens of guys who post here WISHED they owned or programmed so they could make it competitive. You can bet guys like Savage or Greene or Ramblin' Lou would love to have 50 Large on 1520, but in most cases, even their attempts would be doomed... and then there's the electric bill.
Tick, tick, tick. Only a matter of time before Doctor Bob posts about moving KB to Rochester... OK Bob, maybe Avon... maybe... but not likely.
-9-
Sorry 9, but I think KB could do Standards and get at least a 2 share. Put Country on 107.7 and get at least a 4 share. By doing so, Entercom could take shares from Regent and Buddy Shula could make even more of a killing and tell the rest of us how much more money he makes each month than the rest of us palookas here.
Mixed Reviews: Summer trends
Over the years, it doesn't seem like Buffalo stations using the name "Mix" have caught on very well. WBUF was Mix 92.9 and for a while didn't WMJQ call itself Mix 102.5? Maybe third time's a charm and WHTT will do well. Words like "Rock" or "Country" or "Hits" or "Oldies" seems more defined while the word "mix" appears to be somewhat... ambiguous?
Over the years, it doesn't seem like Buffalo stations using the name "Mix" have caught on very well. WBUF was Mix 92.9 and for a while didn't WMJQ call itself Mix 102.5? Maybe third time's a charm and WHTT will do well. Words like "Rock" or "Country" or "Hits" or "Oldies" seems more defined while the word "mix" appears to be somewhat... ambiguous?
WMJQ was Magic 102.5 and Q102 but never mix 102.5.
TVJunkie12 said:WMJQ was Magic 102.5 and Q102 but never mix 102.5.
My recollection is that WMJQ used the word "Mix" in some of their liners about the time that WBUF became Mix 92.9. Probably in an effort to "needle" the folks at 92.9 a bit and perhaps, to cause some confusion in the listener's minds.
The point I attempted to make with my snarky little aside is that KB these days is about as doomed a frequency as WJJL. There's no "there" there. Isn't it sad and somewhat telling, that WUFO, WXRL, WLVL and other stations tie or out-rate what was once the market leader? That CHWO thumps KB? That WDCX... ah hell, you get the point.
Now, to be truthful, I believe (rather hopefully or "dopefully," depending upon your view) KB could rise from the ashes, even as a left wing political talker IF Entercom dedicated the same resources to KB as it does WBEN. And if Leslie Marshal was banished from the frequency for life. But this will NEVER happen. It benefits Entercom to NOT revive KB.
If KB had a live, local morning show from 6-9 that offered news, sports, traffic and weather, interviews and commentaries, it might be competitive. Imagine if you will, Shredd & Ragan doing their show (which essentially is a radio version of The Daily Show) in morning drive on KB. Add to this strong service elements such as traffic and weather as well as sports and the station MIGHT attract listeners.
This might, MIGHT, be able to begin the revive the patient, but the service elements have to be present 24-7 in order to establish a station that is seen as reliable and "go to" in times of need. Hmmm... isn't that what WBEN does so well?
As long as E'com runs the show, KB will NEVER break out of its stupor. Even with Standards or Oldies or who knows what the newest, hottest, biggest, baddest format of the day happens to be. Sadly, Hank Nevins and Steve Mitchell may have done more harm than good in their attempt to pump life into KB with the failed Oldies format. It's likely Entercom won't walk down the "music path" again.
Actually, I think we are close to agreement on this one. Entercom, like most corporate radio groups, doesn't want to invest any money in "high risk" AM. They invested in Danny & other staffers when KB tried oldies, but from what I heard they never ran billboards, tv ads, etc. to spread the word that Danny was back on KB. When I heard that(back in '03) I knew they weren't going to make it. Now they've decided to do the same thing they're doing in Rochester on AM 950 - run satellite lib talk, also with no promotion. Sadly, KB, with their 50kw signal, gets about the same ratings as AM 950, with their very directional 1kw signal. Right wing talk, left wing talk, ESPN sports, whatever. It is basically impossible to get a decent audience with all satellite formats. But yeah, Entercom probably won't walk down the "music path" again. I also agree with Mr. Radnowski. Standards would probably be their best bet right now for a quick fix. Doing what WLGZ/(Crawford is doing here in Rochester - standards mixed in with soft rock oldies - would be a good idea and yes, they could probably get at least a 2 share. WLGZ has a local staff and I believe they are live during the daytime, M-F.
A couple years back, when WECK made the sudden switch from Standards to Classic Country, I was hoping(as I believe a few others on this board were) that KB would start blending in more WECK type music into their Oldies format. But the corporate mind thought otherwise and decided it would be better to get a jump on WHLD/Brian Cashdollar and their/his upcoming switch to Air America. Ironically, both WHLD and KB both have gone nowhere since then.
cee said:I'll go one step further and say that I don't believe most groups will invest good money in ANY AM that isn't already established.
B
Bob1370
Guest
"I'll go one step further and say that I don't believe most groups will invest good money in ANY AM that isn't already established."
Actually it's a matter of whether or not there's a significant unserved market niche that the signal could conceivably fill...and whether or not a station owner thinks it can fill that niche without hurting another one of its properties. If there is a niche and it won't hurt anything else a company owns, the AM will get support. Otherwise, no...
WGR was a much stronger and more highly rated station back when it was a full-service personality news/talker (Jim Pastrick, you'll remember this, IIRC you were programming it back then). But when GR, KB and BEN all fell under the same ownership, GR as we knew it was killed and replaced with a sports station--and KB was left without any chance of developing a competitive format. To do otherwise would hurt WBEN. GR has rebounded somewhat now that it once again has sports talk to itself and probably will never have another format competitor. But KB will never be a factor in the market as long as Entercom owns it--it's just a blocking property, used to prevent anyone else from getting a good enough signal to mount the kind of effective competition for WBEN that WGR used to provide when Bob Rich owned it. (Of course Bob Rich only bought WGR, and 97 Rock, because he planned to make them the eventual flagships of a network for the National League team he hoped to bring to Buffalo. So it's possible he'd have flipped it to sports anyway if he'd taken up MLB's tentative offer of a Buffalo franchise in 1991-2 instead of crunching the numbers, seeing only rivers of red forevermore, and getting cold feet...)
Actually it's a matter of whether or not there's a significant unserved market niche that the signal could conceivably fill...and whether or not a station owner thinks it can fill that niche without hurting another one of its properties. If there is a niche and it won't hurt anything else a company owns, the AM will get support. Otherwise, no...
WGR was a much stronger and more highly rated station back when it was a full-service personality news/talker (Jim Pastrick, you'll remember this, IIRC you were programming it back then). But when GR, KB and BEN all fell under the same ownership, GR as we knew it was killed and replaced with a sports station--and KB was left without any chance of developing a competitive format. To do otherwise would hurt WBEN. GR has rebounded somewhat now that it once again has sports talk to itself and probably will never have another format competitor. But KB will never be a factor in the market as long as Entercom owns it--it's just a blocking property, used to prevent anyone else from getting a good enough signal to mount the kind of effective competition for WBEN that WGR used to provide when Bob Rich owned it. (Of course Bob Rich only bought WGR, and 97 Rock, because he planned to make them the eventual flagships of a network for the National League team he hoped to bring to Buffalo. So it's possible he'd have flipped it to sports anyway if he'd taken up MLB's tentative offer of a Buffalo franchise in 1991-2 instead of crunching the numbers, seeing only rivers of red forevermore, and getting cold feet...)
What about the idea of a personality-intensive talk format? Call me too 'old school' for my own good, but I don't think such a format should be on FM, and feel that the clear channel AMs are best suited to carry such material.cee said:Now, to be truthful, I believe (rather hopefully or "dopefully," depending upon your view) KB could rise from the ashes, even as a left wing political talker IF Entercom dedicated the same resources to KB as it does WBEN. And if Leslie Marshal was banished from the frequency for life. But this will NEVER happen. It benefits Entercom to NOT revive KB.
If KB had a live, local morning show from 6-9 that offered news, sports, traffic and weather, interviews and commentaries, it might be competitive. Imagine if you will, Shredd & Ragan doing their show (which essentially is a radio version of The Daily Show) in morning drive on KB. Add to this strong service elements such as traffic and weather as well as sports and the station MIGHT attract listeners.
I like this idea, too. Moreover, I think if (and that's a big IF) this were ever to happen I would suggest the following:cee said:This might, MIGHT, be able to begin the revive the patient, but the service elements have to be present 24-7 in order to establish a station that is seen as reliable and "go to" in times of need. Hmmm... isn't that what WBEN does so well?
As long as E'com runs the show, KB will NEVER break out of its stupor. Even with Standards or Oldies or who knows what the newest, hottest, biggest, baddest format of the day happens to be. Sadly, Hank Nevins and Steve Mitchell may have done more harm than good in their attempt to pump life into KB with the failed Oldies format. It's likely Entercom won't walk down the "music path" again.
I also agree with Mr. Radnowski. Standards would probably be their best bet right now for a quick fix. Doing what WLGZ/(Crawford is doing here in Rochester - standards mixed in with soft rock oldies - would be a good idea and yes, they could probably get at least a 2 share. WLGZ has a local staff and I believe they are live during the daytime, M-F.
Play music during the evening hours. Like CHWO, I'd suggest having special music features each night. I've said this before and I will say it again, clear channel broadcasters should concentrate on catering to their distant service areas as well as the local area. In doing so, have AEs try getting national advertisers for sponsors. With reduced ad rates, there's less of a risk.
In an effort to draw in younger listeners, include artists such as Diana Krall, Harry Connick Jr and some of the modern 'standards' by artists such as Rod Stewart.
AFAIC, this is typical corporate bull$#!+ for ya! These mega-broadcasters simply concern themselves with how to maximize their bottom line in the shortest time and ignore all else!cee said:A couple years back, when WECK made the sudden switch from Standards to Classic Country, I was hoping(as I believe a few others on this board were) that KB would start blending in more WECK type music into their Oldies format. But the corporate mind thought otherwise and decided it would be better to get a jump on WHLD/Brian Cashdollar and their/his upcoming switch to Air America. Ironically, both WHLD and KB both have gone nowhere since then.
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