Build an AM...?

[jdweaver]

So I bumped into a morning radio host for a low-dial AM radio station yesterday. Nice to see him - but the thought occurred to me, has anyone built a new audience for an AM station since KOMO went all-news with the Mariners (and they started with a good base) ?

Seems to me that if you look at the ratings of even major AM stations around the country everyone is doing a rearguard action - no one is really building audience or even stealing share. I'm talking about stand alone AM's without the benefit of an FM (as with KOMO or KJR-AM). WGN, KSL, KGO, KIRO, WOR, etc....they all have less audience than they had 5 years ago...and no new AM stations have built an audience as KVI did with talk or KJR-A did with sports in the 90s.

Thoughts...?

 

[LITTLEBOYBLUE]

Don't think it's impossible ... but not easy.

Comes down to quality of content and quality of presentation/signal. If you have something that can't be gleaned anywhere else (a popular sports team, for example) --- it WILL develop a following. If you try to jam the same music product that is available online or on a comparable FM, it's a recipe for failure -- even if the programming is awesome, the signal quality will scare SOME away in a music offering.

I think most of the talk stations are seeing mediocre following because the shtick is old. the "try to shock us with outrageous accusations" set the bar so high that no one would likely BELIEVE the content if they try to shove it higher. I think that's where Rushbo got into trouble with GWU student ... he was trying to get out there and shock people again because his yadda yadda was getting stale. The stations you pointed out tend to do well because they offer timely, local information that is in demand and not available on comparable FM's and the package means audio quality not a factor.

It always, in my mind, comes back to what you want that station to DO for you. Is it providing a service and you hope it's stable with a 1.5-2.0 share? Doable. You want to take an AM and demand a 8+-share return ... uphill battle.

 

[semoochie]

The last time I can remember an AM completely tuning it around was when KOGO San Diego went from a music simulcast to consistently topping the market! I don't think it can still be done but I didn't think it could be done then, either.

 

[Omao]

A question: How much do you think an AM station of 5,000 watts is worth in Seattle? I know it's a real open ended question, but looking for a ballpark figure.

 

[LITTLEBOYBLUE]

A question: How much do you think an AM station of 5,000 watts is worth in Seattle? I know it's a real open ended question, but looking for a ballpark figure.

Plucked fresh from my %%% ..... $5M

 

[semoochie]

"A question: How much do you think an AM station of 5,000 watts is worth in Seattle? I know it's a real open ended question, but looking for a ballpark figure." 570 or 1590?

 

[Tom Wells]

"A question: How much do you think an AM station of 5,000 watts is worth in Seattle? I know it's a real open ended question, but looking for a ballpark figure." 570 or 1590?

And where-bouts is the antenna? I have no doubts that in Seattle elevation/proximity/soil/rock/subsoil/seawater/brackish variables
can make a huge difference.

Here-bouts in the midwest, quite a number of such varaibles are more or less limited to where it's almost even hard to comprehend
how complex the situation is rocky, sandy mountainous regions along saltwater seacoasts with inland deserts!.

 

[Bongwater]

"A question: How much do you think an AM station of 5,000 watts is worth in Seattle? I know it's a real open ended question, but looking for a ballpark figure." 570 or 1590?

570, being a lower dial position still has a better signal than 1590. But even that has greatly deteriorated over the years (they used to put a good medium strength in Bellingham. Now you can barely hear them at all here.)

1590 is really spotty. Outside of the Seattle metro, it's hit or miss.

 

[Jack Griffin]

570 may not hit the North well, but it puts out a fine city grade signal and comes in well to the south and east.

As for the "new AM" question goes - just call Andy Skotdal and ask him how 1520's doing.

 

[Wonderfulwino]

It would seem like the considerations neccessary to take a stand alone AM quickly up to speed would be a major challenge beyond all the regular challenges that are encountered operationally.
The programming and management of that would have to be exceptional (vs experimental) right out of the schute and the signal gangbusters. I think 1520 AM is one to watch to see if it makes it's way out of the basement dwellers.
Has AM in general found itself as the third wheel among all the rest of electronic media that has become avalible in the last 10 years? Is it really going dead in the water or struggling to its eventual re-birth? Will it completly dissapear in some markets only to survive and possibly do well in others?? Thinking out loud here...

 

[RichJohnson]

Sports fans will find their team wherever it is on the dial, regardless of the band. But that's pretty much the exception to what I'll dub The AM Rule: It's not that anyone under 40 doesn't care for news or conservative talk, it's that most people under 40 (and rising) literally don't know what AM radio is.
Of course, that's been helped along in the past 30 years by too many signals, high-end rolloff (see Channel, Clear) and recievers that pass AM audio at about the same quality as a phone call.
Smaller AMs aren't looking for ratings, they're looking for profit. Look at 1150's block programming and info-mercials. Look at ethnic programming (where community service still happens).
But even those audiences skew old, and won't be replaced.
AM HD isn't working. The UK bit the bullet and is transitioning to an entirely new place on the radio spectrum where all stations are digital. It's taking longer than envisioned, but eventually imagine a market where there's no technical superiority, and every station lives or dies on its content.
My crazy idea when TV left the low-band VHF spectrum was to devote some of the space adjacent to the FM band to more FM. Transition all AM stations to new FM signals over a decade, and make sure all new radios have the new spectrum (like expanding AM to 1700). But the FCC doesn't write, doesn't call. I think I've been dumped.

 

[Andrew Skotdal]

Rich, there is enough spectrum in TV Channel 5 & 6 to migrate every single AM radio station in America to an FM C class, and still have room left over for more low power stations. A group of people are looking at TV Channel 5 & 6 spectrum specifically for AM migration. The spectrum has been inventoried, and a technical feasibility study has been performed. Despite what the 'channel' says on your television, almost all TV stations have now abandoned this portion of the spectrum, which sits perfectly below 88.5 on the FM dial and can be received now with a code modification on radio chipsets (so on all radios going forward - doesn't require new chipsets like HD). It may take two decades, but this is 'on the radar.' There is one non-technical fly in the ointment, but it will be overcome in time.

 

[RichJohnson]

Glad to hear it, Andy. And if I haven't said it before, good luck up there. I was the second news director in the history of KRKO. Shirley did it for 35 years, I had the gig for 5 months before being let go for someone cheaper ($1k/month vs $750/month).

I also had some, uh, interesting times at Radio 123 during the Hamstra years. Nice folks, but I never knew how they stayed in business as long as they did employing about 30 people at a 1,000 watt station.

Say what we will about ruthless corporate cuts (I've said plenty), but I saw the other end of the HR spectrum back in 1984 right above the Denny's on I-5.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

For those really interested in thinking your way through building an audience for "refurbished" or a brand new AM signal, let me offer you some reading material on the topic.

Granted, it does not involve a Seattle type market, but some of the logic will be a real thought-starter for you. Down in the northeast corner of Georgia lives a very shrewd and knowledgeable broadcaster who has a collection of stations, some AM, some FM, some combo. These tend to be rural markets, but that means if you have what it takes, you can take a station just as far as you can run with little competition to mess up your efforts.

Let me suggest you go to the profile of ART SUTTON who leaves a post on R-I from time to time. He is not much of a chit-chat guy like some of us are. But, when Art does post, I read! In the "profile" click on "recent posts" and read everything Art has posted. Art offers some sage observations on whether you can successfully establish or resurrect an AM in today's climate. He has put his group together more-or-less one market at a time. He has earned his chops when it comes to building audience.

This will take you to his profile. http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=602 The data-base seems to put a low priority on fetching "recent posts" when the traffic is heavy, so be prepared to click the "refresh" button on your browser a few time to page through the posts.

 

[Jack Griffin]

Thanks for the reference reading, but trust me - there's as much, if not more brain power up here than there is in rural Georgia. Plus Andy Skotdal is a pretty sharp cookie in his own right...if anyone can make a new AM succesful, it's him.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Slam Georgia as you see fit. I'm not native here so I "have no dog in this fight" as far as states go.

I could probably summon up a small amount of "feelings of being offended" when you suggest that I have offered you something that can't possibly be as good as I suggested it might be. But I'll get over it.... just as soon as I take you out of my will Monday morning.

 

[Jack Griffin]

Slam Georgia as you see fit. I'm not native here so I "have no dog in this fight" as far as states go.

I could probably summon up a small amount of "feelings of being offended" when you suggest that I have offered you something that can't possibly be as good as I suggested it might be. But I'll get over it.... just as soon as I take you out of my will Monday morning.

I'm sorry you interpreted my post as "slamming Georgia". I meant nothing of the sort - in fact, I have several friends in the Peach State. There was no negative implications at all, and again I'm sorry you were offended.

Let me try this another way:

Art Sutton has certainly had a lot of success with his properties in rural Georgia. However, we have local owners here that have had as much, if not more success than Art has. Google "Pat O'Day" and you'll see what I mean.

And I hope I'll be back in your will by tomorrow. ;D

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Well, forgiving doesn't come easy in this case but since you brought back some really great memories for me, I think we can work things out. I looked up Pat O'Day and went in search of San Juan Island. And it all came back to me!

My children sent my wife and I on a week's visit to Washington. After spending a couple of nights in Port Angeles, we headed up to Port Townsend, took the ferry across to Widby Island and wandered into Knead and Feed in Coupeville for lunch and then on up to Bellingham to serve as our launch point for a day in Vancouver.

I will get with the attorney Tuesday and put you back in the will with an even more-grand portion than before. You see, I live in the community where Junior Samples (Hee-Haw TV) lived. At least a couple of times a week I stop for coffee at the bright and shiny Quick-Trip which the locals tell me is built on the site of the little Biscuits and Breakfast greasy-spoon where Mr. Samples used to stop to have breakfast after his early morning fishing forays in our lake. And in my possession is the 300 gallon galvanized horse watering tank where Junior kept his secret and exotic collection of live bait. I have just about completed the restoration work and one of these days... it will be YOURS.

Should I leave the tobacco juice stains... or would you prefer that they be removed?

GRC

Living on the leeward side of the big lake
that gives some protection from the surging, foaming flotsam
of Atlanta's urban and suburban sprawl
as it washes up on the base of The Blue Ridge Mountains.

 

[jefflaurence]

Well Pat O'Day is one of the heritage broadcasters in the Great Northwest..and to be totally honest, like Pat...Mr Sutton had a few wrinkles to deal with in rural Georgia..witness Sylva, NC and Helen, GA as a couple of stations that had a rough time keeping the lights on at some point..

What the Goat Rodeo Cowboy is saying is that Art really gets it when it comes to programming a compelling radio station that is involved in the market they serve..and sometimes to a fault. He hires young, and eager people who sometimes don't sound big time slick..but they have a thirst to learn this business, and succeed. Nothing wrong with that.


But the question remains "what about AM"?

It comes down to conditioning, and more and more people are just not conditioned to listening to AM. If they have already migrated to FM or WiFi they are gone, and the chances of them returning to, or re-discovering AM is slim given the audio quality issues, and noise from that stupid IBOC..and the fact that many operators have just ignored their AM stations for so long that there is no need to revisit a crappy medium that delivers crappy programming..add to that practically EVERY AM operator would move to FM tomorrow if the opportunity arose. THEY don't even believe in it. I would bet that Mr. Skotdal would snap up an FM signal in a heartbeat if it was offered. And that is evidenced by his interest in an expanded band for FM. Not even sure that will help much because by the time that happens, if it ever does..practically everyone will have found the "next big thing" and that would be Internet Radio delivered by WiMax in cars. Even Sirius/XM will have a battle with that.

 

[Bongwater]

...... if it ever does..practically everyone will have found the "next big thing" and that would be Internet Radio delivered by WiMax in cars. Even Sirius/XM will have a battle with that......

SHHHHHH!

Some folks in this biz still don't know THIS already exists....NOW......