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But they're winning in their target demo

F

fullabaloney

Guest
I read recently on one of these boards (maybe Boston) one of the most insightful things I've ever seen here. "But they're winning in their target demo" really means they're doing lousy. Frankly I could play Asian gong music, get three Cambodians in Fox Point to listen, and claim I'm winning in my target demo. That said, Hot 106 is down to a 2.7. Stick a fork in it. Is it absolutely necessary that Cumulus have every potential top 40 and rhythmic top 40 listener? Isn't there any format they could flip 106 to that would pull better numbers (in some target demo)?
 
As has been discussed here in the past, Country fits 106.3's signal strength nicely. I just doubt that Providence is a two-country-music-station kind of market.
 
Different target demos have different values. It's not like they're winning the 65+ demo, which is worthless. They're performing very well in the most valuable demo out there. The station makes money.
 
I agree about this target Demo crap. Imus used to claim that he was number one in cars. Now he's #1 NOWHERE. Winning in your target demo is just a way for Broadcasters to put the most positive spin possible on their lackluster ratings. A good station wins in all demos! Not with just a few select people at a certain time of day. Stations say this to make them themselves sound more attractive to advertisers. It's all a stupid word game.
 
That's a pretty ignorant statement. No station ever wins in every demo. If one station could appeal to all people at all times, there wouldn't be a need for any other radio station. Different groups have different tastes. That's just a fact. WWLI is the top biller in Providence. They're not the #1 station females 18-34. Does that mean it's time for a format change until every single man woman and child is listening to WWLI?

There is not ONE MEASURE for success. Success means different things to different stations.
 
The name of the game is to get the most listeners. Splicing and dicing is all a numbers game. I say that the true winner is the station with the most listeners in every demo. Maybe there isn't currently such a station on the air. However there should be. I think back to stations like WNBC who were number one in every daypart. They were a true variety station that had something for everyone. I think there needs to be another station like that.
 
Skynet74 said:
The name of the game is to get the most listeners. Splicing and dicing is all a numbers game. I say that the true winner is the station with the most listeners in every demo. Maybe there isn't currently such a station on the air. However there should be. I think back to stations like WNBC who were number one in every daypart. They were a true variety station that had something for everyone. I think there needs to be another station like that.
Click to expand...

What year was WNBC #1 in every daypart?
 
Skynet74 said:
The name of the game is to get the most listeners. Splicing and dicing is all a numbers game. I say that the true winner is the station with the most listeners in every demo. Maybe there isn't currently such a station on the air. However there should be. I think back to stations like WNBC who were number one in every daypart. They were a true variety station that had something for everyone. I think there needs to be another station like that.
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That is absolutely and completely incorrect. Welcome to the world of commercial broadcasting! The name of the game is to have the greatest net profit.

WNBC was never, EVER, #1 in every daypart. I have the numbers to prove it. They were an "also-ran" their entire history after the 40's.
 
I know that in 1985 WNBC was at the top of their game. Imus in the morning. Soupy Sales mid days. Howard Stern afternoons. Wolfman Jack overnights. Yes it was a long time ago, but the summer of 1985 WNBC was HOT HOT HOT!!! Check your numbers and tell me who was doing better. I'm sure that I'm not completely correct about everything, but I sure know that WNBC was THE station for just about eveything back then. Talk/Music/Sports. The signal boomed into my home in Massachusetts. I would even listen up in Boston during college. They took a giant nosedive when Stern left and Soupy too. They never recovered after that.

My point is that station was personality driven and full of talent. They had to be the closest to number one in every daypart as any station could possibly be. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. It wouldn't be the first time. Depetro still has a job 5 years after I said he would be fired. So feel free to explain a few things to me. I like to learn.

I just know that if I owned my own station I would try to emulate what WNBC did in the summer of 1985 when they seemed to be doing EVERYTHING right!
 
Skynet74 said:
I know that in 1985 WNBC was at the top of their game. Imus in the morning. Soupy Sales mid days. Howard Stern afternoons. Wolfman Jack overnights. Yes it was a long time ago, but the summer of 1985 WNBC was HOT HOT HOT!!! Check your numbers and tell me who was doing better. I'm sure that I'm not completely correct about everything, but I sure know that WNBC was THE station for just about eveything back then. Talk/Music/Sports. The signal boomed into my home in Massachusetts. I would even listen up in Boston during college. They took a giant nosedive when Stern left and Soupy too. They never recovered after that.

My point is that station was personality driven and full of talent. They had to be the closest to number one in every daypart as any station could possibly be. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. It wouldn't be the first time. Depetro still has a job 5 years after I said he would be fired. So feel free to explain a few things to me. I like to learn.

I just know that if I owned my own station I would try to emulate what WNBC did in the summer of 1985 when they seemed to be doing EVERYTHING right!
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Um.....no.

NYC 1985 12+:

1. WHTZ-FM 5.8
2. WPLJ-FM 5.6
3. WRKS-FM 5.5
4. WOR 5.4
5. WINS 4.4
6. WNEW-FM 4.2
7. WBLS-FM 4.0
7. WCBS 4.0
9. WLTW-FM 3.8
10.WPAT-FM 3.5
11.WRFM-FM 3.1
11.WCBS-FM 3.1
13. WNEW 2.9
14. WNBC 2.8
15. WHN 2.7
16. WQHT-FM 2.2
17. WPIX-FM 2.0



WNBC's peak was in 1981...even then, they only managed 6th place overall (behind WBLS-FM, WKTU-FM, WOR, WINS and WCBS).
 
Totally shocked by those numbers. I thought WNBC was doing a hell of a lot better than that. I guess they were only doing better in my house. LOL. Thank you.
 
Skynet74 said:
Totally shocked by those numbers. I thought WNBC was doing a hell of a lot better than that. I guess they were only doing better in my house. LOL. Thank you.
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I've been that kind of shocked before about stations I thought were huge, too, Skynet.

Here's the thing: Every station targets demos, usually 25-54, 18-49 or 18-34, because advertisers spend the most money trying to reach those people. If you want to stay a station owner, the smartest thing to do is to go after that money, as long as you have a competitive signal and enough budget to do what's needed to come in no worse than 5th to 10th in the demo. That will generally get you on most of the ad agency buys, which in a market of any significant size, is where most of the ad dollars come from.

Back in '85, I'll bet WNBC was targeting 18-49 (most AM adult stations did, and most leaned male). And the fact is, they were in the top 10 among the people they were going after. Which shows that you can hit your target and come in 14th overall. And that's why the overall numbers are worthless.

'NBC could have done better with women, but as radio listeners, they tend to like more music, less talk, as little sports talk as possible (this is as a group...I know there are exceptions). And by '85,as we can see from those demo breakouts, they were already listening to FM (WLTW, WPLJ and WBLS). So were the men, apart from WNBC and WINS.

Winning your demo isn't something you say when your numbers suck. The demos are the real numbers and the best barometer of your ability to make a profit and stay in format or even in business.
 
I'm pretty sure that I noticed WLKW was doing extremely well back then. Makes me wonder why the format change if they were already pulling in great numbers.
 
Skynet74 said:
I'm pretty sure that I noticed WLKW was doing extremely well back then. Makes me wonder why the format change if they were already pulling in great numbers.
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Because numbers are fluid and by the end of the decade, their target demo wanted more contemporary music. Every year, people age out of your demo, and people age in. Very few stations sound the same five years down the road.
 
If you are #4 6+ with an AQH of 25,000/cume 200,000 but #1 25-54 (male or female), it does not matter that the #3 station has 35,000 AQH/cume 300,000 if 75% of them are over 55 or you are mid-pack in 18-34, 18-49 and/or 25-54.

If you don't understand the need to show a high number in a desirable demographic (18-34, 18-49, 25-54 male or female) and you think that total bodies is the answer, you can't possibly be in the business.
 
HHH said:
If you don't understand the need to show a high number in a desirable demographic (18-34, 18-49, 25-54 male or female) and you think that total bodies is the answer, you can't possibly be in the business.
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A good example of this happened in the late 60's-early 70's....when CBS-TV pulled the plug on all of thier still highly popular "rural comedies" (The Beverly Hilbillies, Green Acres, Petticoat Junction, etc.).....and when ABC-TV finally pulled the plug on "The Lawrence Welk Show".

All of these shows were still pulling strong numbers....but the demo was TOO DAMN OLD. That....as they say....was that.
 
Dighton Rockhead said:
HHH said:
If you don't understand the need to show a high number in a desirable demographic (18-34, 18-49, 25-54 male or female) and you think that total bodies is the answer, you can't possibly be in the business.
Click to expand...

A good example of this happened in the late 60's-early 70's....when CBS-TV pulled the plug on all of thier still highly popular "rural comedies" (The Beverly Hilbillies, Green Acres, Petticoat Junction, etc.).....and when ABC-TV finally pulled the plug on "The Lawrence Welk Show".

All of these shows were still pulling strong numbers....but the demo was TOO DAMN OLD. That....as they say....was that.
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Plus, take a book at the death of "beautiful music" FMs (Mantovani, 1001 Strings, etc) in the 80s and American Pop Standards (Sinatra, Nat King Cole, etc). Many of those stations had lots of bodies, but had the plug pulled due to older demos.
 
Obviously high ratings in targeted demographics is very important. But you can't underestimate how important total listenership is across the board. High ratings in as many demographics as possible is the ideal solution. Otherwise Arbitron wouldn't be so busy measuring total listenership at all. A smart station places value on every single listener. Not just on listeners in a specific age range or gender.

There is a thing called Word of mouth. A listener totally out of your stations demo can easily spread the word to two or three friends who your station would love to grab as what would be considered "valuable listeners." Don't ever discard ANY LISTENER. That would be ignorant. Just because a person works in radio or is in a management position at a radio station does not necessarily mean that they are any good at their job. A good amount of them are probably horrible at it. It's a very bad idea to start mouthing off about how not everybody matters. Those are the Management types who lack common sense.

EVERY LISTENER MATTERS.
 
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