By the numbers...

[john77]

L.A. Winter 2007... Phase 1 12+

Notables:

KIIS... down to 3rd (loss of over 10% of listeners in past year)
KPWR... up to tie for 5th (nice rebound... listenership back up over 35% in 3 books)
KRTH... flat - ranks 10th
KCBS... flat - ranks 11th
KYSR... up to 17th (50% increase in listeners over past 3 books!)
KBIG... down - stays 19th (listenership down nearly 30% over past 5 books)
KFRG... down - ranks #31... Orange County country station
KMVN... barely up... ranks #34... yes, STILL below KFRG!!!

 

[radioresearcher]

KYSR and KRTH seem to have been benefactors of the Country flip. That could change with KKGO on the air.

Plus, KYSR had a huge November. We'll see if it continues to hold up - but it's a positive sign.

L.A. Winter 2007... Phase 1 12+

Notables:

KIIS... down to 3rd (loss of over 10% of listeners in past year)
KPWR... up to tie for 5th (nice rebound... listenership back up over 35% in 3 books)
KRTH... flat - ranks 10th
KCBS... flat - ranks 11th
KYSR... up to 17th (50% increase in listeners over past 3 books!)
KBIG... down - stays 19th (listenership down nearly 30% over past 5 books)
KFRG... down - ranks #31... Orange County country station
KMVN... barely up... ranks #34... yes, STILL below KFRG!!!

 

[GermanyOrFlorida]

How about KLSX?

 

[mostb1]

I never thought a Los Angeles full market fm signal station could be worse off than "Rock With a Beat" but Movin 93.9 has proved that wrong. Ironically, "Rock With A Beat" was another station trying to attract a Hispanic audience. But everyone knew that Paul Rodriguez (and Tim Kelly) would never work out.

Anyone who thinks Jimmy Steal is a good p.d. post that you've heard Tera Bonilla on the air. Although I don't like the way Jhani Kaye uses liner cards and hot lines his jocks, she's the perfect candidate for him. Of course, she's get hot-lined every set. Why is it that Jimmy Steal never formats this horrible air talent and doesn't show her how to run a proper board? So far Movin sounds like a station full of Power 106 reject jocks (except Dees, of course).

As for Dees, he's got to get rid of Patty Lopez. She's ruining his show. She just doesn't get it. Not surprising as the best attribute she can claim to have is being wallpaper in the Dees studio. If Dees doesn't get rid of her soon, he needs to bow out gracefully when his contract window comes due this summer.

This station blew its entire promotional budget prior to Thanksgiving. They have NO TV or Billboards. All they are doing now is small market promotions like "Dees-neyland" and a contest for someone to sing the national anthem at Dodger stadium. If they think they're going to win with that in this market, good luck. But what else would I expect from a company as cheap as Emmis, though?

Movin needs a complete overhaul. I'd get rid of the Movin moniker completely. Get rid of it now. Nobody is listening. Even the local media aren't paying attention to Rick Dees anymore. That's sad.

When I tune into Movin, that is what I'm doing, Movin to another station on the dial. Bring back KDL. Even it wasn't as bad as this!

 

[Radiogeek500]

Still too early to judge how Winston, Hayes, Monds, and Julius are doing for 100.3, but how much longer can Baisden stay on? And why is it that even though this Steve Cudillo dude that oversees this station says he wants a "Mass Appeal" R&B station, every commercial I hear talks about Black this, Black that. Sure don't sound "Mass appeal".

 

[mostb1]

Still too early to judge how Winston, Hayes, Monds, and Julius are doing for 100.3, but how much longer can Baisden stay on? And why is it that even though this Steve Cudillo dude that oversees this station says he wants a "Mass Appeal" R&B station, every commercial I hear talks about Black this, Black that. Sure don't sound "Mass appeal".

There isn't room for 3 FM's (even though two are Class A's and don't cover the entire market) primarily targeting blacks in this market (there wasn't when KACE went away either). With the numbers they've got, it's hard to imagine them having any other spots. One of the three stations needs to hit the road.

It's also hard to believe that Movin can still command $10,000 for endorsement spots from Rick Dees. That has to come down soon with their embarassing numbers.

Emmis is so stupid. KIIS is vulnerable. If they moved Movin onto the right of KIIS with Power being on the left of it, they could squeeze the life out of KIIS.

 

[ronkaram]

Movin's biggest mistake was when they first came on the air. The station was 3 days old, and I counted 10 commercials in a row. What a way to gain listeners. Ever since then if I tune in the station and hear a commercial, I keep movin to another station and when they start commercials, I also move to another station.

 

[Marv-L.A.]

I don't know if Emmis wants to spend the TONS of money it would take to put a dent in KIIS.

If KIIS had the ratings they had in the mid-eighties (anywhere from a 7.7-10.0), then it MIGHT make sense to go after them.

I'm also not sure what you mean by 'vulnerable' either; it certainly abandoned being a 'mass-appeal format' well over a decade ago, which is what the format was designed to be, at least as Bill Drake did when he launched 93/KHJ Los Angeles in 1965.

A rather hefty percentage of CHR/Pop stations nationwide have done likewise over the past 20 years.

 

[mostb1]

I don't know if Emmis wants to spend the TONS of money it would take to put a dent in KIIS.

If KIIS had the ratings they had in the mid-eighties (anywhere from a 7.7-10.0), then it MIGHT make sense to go after them.

I'm also not sure what you mean by 'vulnerable' either; it certainly abandoned being a 'mass-appeal format' well over a decade ago, which is what the format was designed to be, at least as Bill Drake did when he launched 93/KHJ Los Angeles in 1965.

A rather hefty percentage of CHR/Pop stations nationwide have done likewise over the past 20 years.

Does it makes sense for Movin to continue being the lowest rated full market signaled FM in the market with a morning show that is costing more than Power 106 which has a morning show audience quadruple thier sister stations? If you combine the three main competitors to Movin (Hot, V and KBIG), your talking just a little more than KIIS.

Emmis could easily knock KIIS down a notch or two without a huge promotional budget. Power shares many titles with KIIS and has been much more conservative in the music it plays as it has rebounded and they're doing a good job battling the left side of KIIS. All Emmis needs to do is move Movin to the right of KIIS, being a current intensive (with some gold) Adult CHR, with Rick Dees at the helm (and not trying so hard to be a "Hispanic" station) and it can pick off the upper demos from KIIS just as Power has been slowly picking off KIIS's younger demos after it stopped reacting to Latino 96.3.

Movin isn't going to work. This town doesn't need more oldies. It needs more current intensive formats. The average age in this town isn't getting older, it's getting younger and oldies are not what they are (primarily) listening to.

What other format could Emmis do? There really isn't anything left (english language) in this town that isn't covered and is saleable. Go after KIIS...it's a natural with Rick Dees.

 

[radioresearcher]

I don't know if Emmis wants to spend the TONS of money it would take to put a dent in KIIS.

If KIIS had the ratings they had in the mid-eighties (anywhere from a 7.7-10.0), then it MIGHT make sense to go after them.

I'm also not sure what you mean by 'vulnerable' either; it certainly abandoned being a 'mass-appeal format' well over a decade ago, which is what the format was designed to be, at least as Bill Drake did when he launched 93/KHJ Los Angeles in 1965.

A rather hefty percentage of CHR/Pop stations nationwide have done likewise over the past 20 years.

Does it makes sense for Movin to continue being the lowest rated full market signaled FM in the market with a morning show that is costing more than Power 106 which has a morning show audience quadruple thier sister stations? If you combine the three main competitors to Movin (Hot, V and KBIG), your talking just a little more than KIIS.

Emmis could easily knock KIIS down a notch or two without a huge promotional budget. Power shares many titles with KIIS and has been much more conservative in the music it plays as it has rebounded and they're doing a good job battling the left side of KIIS. All Emmis needs to do is move Movin to the right of KIIS, being a current intensive (with some gold) Adult CHR, with Rick Dees at the helm (and not trying so hard to be a "Hispanic" station) and it can pick off the upper demos from KIIS just as Power has been slowly picking off KIIS's younger demos after it stopped reacting to Latino 96.3.

Movin isn't going to work. This town doesn't need more oldies. It needs more current intensive formats. The average age in this town isn't getting older, it's getting younger and oldies are not what they are (primarily) listening to.

What other format could Emmis do? There really isn't anything left (english language) in this town that isn't covered and is saleable. Go after KIIS...it's a natural with Rick Dees.

How are you going to differentiate from Star? If they get too young, they could cannibalize Power 106 - which has also benefited from the demise of 100.3 as a hip-hop station.

KPWR currently spins five of the top ten songs on the CHR chart - so are they suddenly going to start playing Avril Lavigne, Fall Out Boy, Red Jumpsuit Apparatus and Fray to fill it out?

When KIIS tried to play all the hits, they failed. KIIS and KPWR both have huge cume.

If KYSR was still heavily gold-based, I might agree that it's worth a shot.

Not enough music... but if you insist - explain to me how you differentiate from KIIS and at the same time don't hurt Power 106.

 

[mostb1]

I don't know if Emmis wants to spend the TONS of money it would take to put a dent in KIIS.

If KIIS had the ratings they had in the mid-eighties (anywhere from a 7.7-10.0), then it MIGHT make sense to go after them.

I'm also not sure what you mean by 'vulnerable' either; it certainly abandoned being a 'mass-appeal format' well over a decade ago, which is what the format was designed to be, at least as Bill Drake did when he launched 93/KHJ Los Angeles in 1965.

A rather hefty percentage of CHR/Pop stations nationwide have done likewise over the past 20 years.

Does it makes sense for Movin to continue being the lowest rated full market signaled FM in the market with a morning show that is costing more than Power 106 which has a morning show audience quadruple thier sister stations? If you combine the three main competitors to Movin (Hot, V and KBIG), your talking just a little more than KIIS.

Emmis could easily knock KIIS down a notch or two without a huge promotional budget. Power shares many titles with KIIS and has been much more conservative in the music it plays as it has rebounded and they're doing a good job battling the left side of KIIS. All Emmis needs to do is move Movin to the right of KIIS, being a current intensive (with some gold) Adult CHR, with Rick Dees at the helm (and not trying so hard to be a "Hispanic" station) and it can pick off the upper demos from KIIS just as Power has been slowly picking off KIIS's younger demos after it stopped reacting to Latino 96.3.

Movin isn't going to work. This town doesn't need more oldies. It needs more current intensive formats. The average age in this town isn't getting older, it's getting younger and oldies are not what they are (primarily) listening to.

What other format could Emmis do? There really isn't anything left (english language) in this town that isn't covered and is saleable. Go after KIIS...it's a natural with Rick Dees.

How are you going to differentiate from Star? If they get too young, they could cannibalize Power 106 - which has also benefited from the demise of 100.3 as a hip-hop station.

KPWR currently spins five of the top ten songs on the CHR chart - so are they suddenly going to start playing Avril Lavigne, Fall Out Boy, Red Jumpsuit Apparatus and Fray to fill it out?

When KIIS tried to play all the hits, they failed. KIIS and KPWR both have huge cume.

If KYSR was still heavily gold-based, I might agree that it's worth a shot.

Not enough music... but if you insist - explain to me how you differentiate from KIIS and at the same time don't hurt Power 106.

If you'd properly read my post, you'd see I said ADULT CHR. Adult is the key

Star does not play the kind of pop and rhythmic tunes that KIIS plays or has played. An ADULT CHR audience is more receptive to a variety of music and doesn't need to be so narrow. It needs to be a station that fills the gap between KIIS and brings together three fragmented AC's, KBIG, Star and Hot, and will work in this market. In fact, that is the kind of Hot AC/Adult CHR Jhani Kaye was doing at AMFM when it was bought. And it was starting to damage KIIS WITH ADULTS at the time. Something that was quickly quashed the day of the takeover.

A long time ago the idea from Clear Channel was don't hurt KIIS. That isn't the idea anymore. It's get as many listeners on all yours owned stations PERIOD. It doesn't matter if they listen to Power or 93.9. Just that they listen to Emmis. Power would remain quite different from my idea of what a new 93.9 should sound like. It certainly doesn't seem to bother Clear Channel in New York which not only has ONE CHR but TWO plus a Rhythmic Hot AC.

If we remember when Latino went on the air there was not a nearly 7 share at Power. But now between Power and Latino, it's nearly 7 shares 12+. Just because KIIS is in the middle 4's doesn't mean there isnt enough to steal from them and a few other stations and have a highly successful Adult CHR in this market. And Rick Dees is the perfect morning person for it (without Patty Lopez and without stressing being a Hispanic station).

Your post is really short-sighted. You're the perfect candidate to work for Emmis. So what is YOUR solution?

 

[mostb1]

I don't know if Emmis wants to spend the TONS of money it would take to put a dent in KIIS.

If KIIS had the ratings they had in the mid-eighties (anywhere from a 7.7-10.0), then it MIGHT make sense to go after them.

I'm also not sure what you mean by 'vulnerable' either; it certainly abandoned being a 'mass-appeal format' well over a decade ago, which is what the format was designed to be, at least as Bill Drake did when he launched 93/KHJ Los Angeles in 1965.

A rather hefty percentage of CHR/Pop stations nationwide have done likewise over the past 20 years.

Does it makes sense for Movin to continue being the lowest rated full market signaled FM in the market with a morning show that is costing more than Power 106 which has a morning show audience quadruple thier sister stations? If you combine the three main competitors to Movin (Hot, V and KBIG), your talking just a little more than KIIS.

Emmis could easily knock KIIS down a notch or two without a huge promotional budget. Power shares many titles with KIIS and has been much more conservative in the music it plays as it has rebounded and they're doing a good job battling the left side of KIIS. All Emmis needs to do is move Movin to the right of KIIS, being a current intensive (with some gold) Adult CHR, with Rick Dees at the helm (and not trying so hard to be a "Hispanic" station) and it can pick off the upper demos from KIIS just as Power has been slowly picking off KIIS's younger demos after it stopped reacting to Latino 96.3.

Movin isn't going to work. This town doesn't need more oldies. It needs more current intensive formats. The average age in this town isn't getting older, it's getting younger and oldies are not what they are (primarily) listening to.

What other format could Emmis do? There really isn't anything left (english language) in this town that isn't covered and is saleable. Go after KIIS...it's a natural with Rick Dees.

How are you going to differentiate from Star? If they get too young, they could cannibalize Power 106 - which has also benefited from the demise of 100.3 as a hip-hop station.

KPWR currently spins five of the top ten songs on the CHR chart - so are they suddenly going to start playing Avril Lavigne, Fall Out Boy, Red Jumpsuit Apparatus and Fray to fill it out?

When KIIS tried to play all the hits, they failed. KIIS and KPWR both have huge cume.

If KYSR was still heavily gold-based, I might agree that it's worth a shot.

Not enough music... but if you insist - explain to me how you differentiate from KIIS and at the same time don't hurt Power 106.

I disagree with your assessment that Power has benefited from the demise of The Beat. Count your shares between Power, Latino and KDAY today and Power and The Beat in the last book before Latino hit the air. Power has risen since it started paying more attention to KIIS and not Latino. It has very little to do with The Beat. VERY LITTLE.

 

[john77]

I don't know if Emmis wants to spend the TONS of money it would take to put a dent in KIIS.

If KIIS had the ratings they had in the mid-eighties (anywhere from a 7.7-10.0), then it MIGHT make sense to go after them.

I'm also not sure what you mean by 'vulnerable' either; it certainly abandoned being a 'mass-appeal format' well over a decade ago, which is what the format was designed to be, at least as Bill Drake did when he launched 93/KHJ Los Angeles in 1965.

A rather hefty percentage of CHR/Pop stations nationwide have done likewise over the past 20 years.

There is a GAPING hole right now in this market for a mainstream CHR that hasn't existed in a very long time... KIIS had the ground covered farily well, but that's no longer at all the case... Hot AC KYSR plays just about as many CHR/Top 40 hits as KIIS does, there are still a lot of hit songs just being completely missed, particularly the dance-pop type hits such as Hellogoodbye and Cascada...

KIIS is so Rhythmic now that a 2.5-3.0 share wouldn't be all that difficult for a CHR to obtain provided they got some programmers that knew their stuff, and not a bunch of bean counters...

 

[davideduardo]

There is a GAPING hole right now in this market for a mainstream CHR that hasn't existed in a very long time... KIIS had the ground covered farily well, but that's no longer at all the case... Hot AC KYSR plays just about as many CHR/Top 40 hits as KIIS does, there are still a lot of hit songs just being completely missed, particularly the dance-pop type hits such as Hellogoodbye and Cascada...

There is no hole for that... the market is so ethnic that there is simply no constituencyy for vanilla pop.

 

[BACKnUSSR]

There is a GAPING hole right now in this market for a mainstream CHR that hasn't existed in a very long time... KIIS had the ground covered farily well, but that's no longer at all the case... Hot AC KYSR plays just about as many CHR/Top 40 hits as KIIS does, there are still a lot of hit songs just being completely missed, particularly the dance-pop type hits such as Hellogoodbye and Cascada...

There is no hole for that... the market is so ethnic that there is simply no constituencyy for vanilla pop.

Opinions ...opinions....everyone's got 'em,

1. Don't assume that an ethnic market doesn't respond to mainstream pop......
Z-100/New York...a VERY ethnic market is probably one of the more vanilla pop stations in the country.

2. Not everyone is playing to the same audience you do. There is such a glut of stations reaching out to another segment of the "ethnic" audience as you say...that one that doesn't could theoretically outperform those that compete against one another.

3. KIIS' lean is as much a result of the current music product as it is an attempt to reach an ethnic audience. It is doing so while still trying to leave a clear path for KYSR and KBIG. They do a very mainstream pop presentation (as they always have) and therein lies it's success. Thats the reason (along with heritage) it would be hard to beat them at their game.

4. Thanks for the "off the cuff" perceptual study....but it is in all probability incorrect.

 

[Jay F]

I side with Glenn on this one. Emmis could squeeze KIIS with POWER on one side and a mainstream with Rick Dees on the other. The mainstream CHR wouldn't have to be all vanilla pop or mostly alternative like STAR, they could play "all the hits". In fact a mainstream would take some audience away from STAR as well.

I know "all the hits" didn't work for KIIS when they tried it a few years ago. But this is different because it would be part of a two sided strategy to sandwhich KIIS. Besides a mainstream CHR would do better than what MOVIN' is pulling now!

 

[radioresearcher]

[/quote]

I disagree with your assessment that Power has benefited from the demise of The Beat. Count your shares between Power, Latino and KDAY today and Power and The Beat in the last book before Latino hit the air. Power has risen since it started paying more attention to KIIS and not Latino. It has very little to do with The Beat. VERY LITTLE.
[/quote]


Sorry - I completely challenge that and David can confirm. The last five months for KPWR while KKBT played hip-hop was in the lower 3's. KKBT blew the last of the hip-hop at the end of May.

In June, KPWR leaped A FULL SHARE to over a 4 and has had averaged almost a 4 share since.

David may have the official monthlies.

How can you not say KKBT going away didn't make a difference?

Now, has Power 106 focused less on Latino? Yes... but KKBT changing format helped Power 106.

 

[davideduardo]

Sorry - I completely challenge that and David can confirm. The last five months for KPWR while KKBT played hip-hop was in the lower 3's. KKBT blew the last of the hip-hop at the end of May.

In June, KPWR leaped A FULL SHARE to over a 4 and has had averaged almost a 4 share since.

David may have the official monthlies.

How can you not say KKBT going away didn't make a difference?

Now, has Power 106 focused less on Latino? Yes... but KKBT changing format helped Power 106.

Totally correct. There is a correlation of the highest confidence level between the Beat changing and Power increasing. The correlation is supported by a change in Power's ethnic composition where it is more Black than before, making up substantially for the loss of Hispanics to KXOL earlier. KXOL's leveling off has also benefited KPWR, but not as much as the change in The Beat. There is no correlation between KIIS moves and KPWR moves. In fact, there is a lack of correlation to the opposite side.

Of course, the reason Power does not focus on Latino is that there is nothing they can do about Latino. KXOL has an Hispanic brand, and Power has a "no color lines" brand that can not show favor to any one ethnicity or they die.

 

[radioresearcher]

Sorry - I completely challenge that and David can confirm. The last five months for KPWR while KKBT played hip-hop was in the lower 3's. KKBT blew the last of the hip-hop at the end of May.

In June, KPWR leaped A FULL SHARE to over a 4 and has had averaged almost a 4 share since.

David may have the official monthlies.

How can you not say KKBT going away didn't make a difference?

Now, has Power 106 focused less on Latino? Yes... but KKBT changing format helped Power 106.

Totally correct. There is a correlation of the highest confidence level between the Beat changing and Power increasing. The correlation is supported by a change in Power's ethnic composition where it is more Black than before, making up substantially for the loss of Hispanics to KXOL earlier. KXOL's leveling off has also benefited KPWR, but not as much as the change in The Beat. There is no correlation between KIIS moves and KPWR moves. In fact, there is a lack of correlation to the opposite side.

Of course, the reason Power does not focus on Latino is that there is nothing they can do about Latino. KXOL has an Hispanic brand, and Power has a "no color lines" brand that can not show favor to any one ethnicity or they die.

KDAY was probably hoping the young Black audience would go there - and they have gotten some - but not as much as Power - who has a better signal and larger cume.

 

[john77]

There is a GAPING hole right now in this market for a mainstream CHR that hasn't existed in a very long time... KIIS had the ground covered farily well, but that's no longer at all the case... Hot AC KYSR plays just about as many CHR/Top 40 hits as KIIS does, there are still a lot of hit songs just being completely missed, particularly the dance-pop type hits such as Hellogoodbye and Cascada...

There is no hole for that... the market is so ethnic that there is simply no constituencyy for vanilla pop.

Shall we use the "assume" analogy here???