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Bye Bye WEMP!!!
- Thread starter mrbrightside
- Start date
If Emmis didn't have the big debt bill coming last September, and had not announced many months earlier that RXP and the Chicago stations would be sold, the RXP Alternative format would have been dumped sooner. It just wasn't performing up to what a NYC Class-B FM should be doing. It was the fact that it was going to be sold anyway that they kept it going as long as they did. There was no point in changing staff or investing in a new format before the sale.
First of all, Merlin is not likely to sell any stations. It just bought another one in Philadelphia. Its financial backers have deep pockets and are used to waiting years for their investments to pay off. One blog claiming rumors of a format dump doesn't mean its going to happen, but if Merlin is throwing in the towel on doing all-news it will probably try some other kind of spoken-word or talk format. In Philly, it's new station is news in the morning and talk the rest of the time.
As far as doing Country or Alternative on a NYC Class-B, which currently successful formats should be dropped to make room? Think in terms of who's got the ratings and is making money and not what format you would like to hear. Don't forget the NY Radio Market is 40-percent Black and Hispanic, and only 33-percent of the NYC population is non-Hispanic white. There are currently four commercial frequencies that are being used by non-comms, three Spanish language FMs, three Urban format stations, two spoken word FMs, WPLJ owned by Cumulus, and the rest of the music FMs are doing great and are owned in the CBS and Clear Channel clusters. And those big boys aren't going to change a thing, with the exception of CBS dumping music for FM sports or news at some point in the future.
Do a frequency count like that in Boston or Philly, take the ethnic population of the market into consideration and you'll see why they can squeeze more music formats on the dial. From the bottom, in Boston and Philly the NPR affiliates are in the non-commercial band, in Boston there is one Spanish language, and one hip hop station on the FM dial; in Philly, there are three Urban Contemporary stations and a Hip Hop, but no Spanish language stations on the FM dial.
And again, the Boston radio market is 14-percent Black and Hispanic, the New York radio market is 40-percent. And that's why there are more Black and Hispanic FM stations in New York, and no room for Alternative and Country. WRXP didn't do well enough, and WYNY, when it was country, didn't do well enough either. It's not about the music, its about the listener demos it brings for advertising sales. Alternative, or Country wouldn't add any demos that the music clusters aren't getting already, and Alternative might draw from CBS's WCBS-FM, and Clear Channels WAXQ. Those big guys aren't going to hurt what they already have. They will go after somebody else but they aren't going to threaten, or cannibalize, their own successful stations with a rival music format.
The problem with the NYC market is that it is simply too large, and advertisers (for the most part) only care about listeners within the city limits. If you take the market of 15 million people and remove the 8 million that live in the city, that still leaves 7 million suburban listeners, more than most other radio markets. But for whatever reason, stations do not want to take a chance at targeting these suburban listeners (with the expection of maybe WPLJ). Instead, they would rather take a single piece of pie and slice it into more smaller pieces (i.e. 3 CHR stations), rather than take a full piece for themselves.
If you look at the ratings in NJ, Thunder Country 106.3 continues to rise. This shows people are discovering country music and liking it. Kicks 105.5 just expanded their coverage on 106.3 in Westchester. Part of the reason country music "won't work" in NYC is because people don't know anything about it. They have no exposure to it, so they don't even know whether or not they would like it. If a station was programmed correctly (targeting a more suburban audience), it could work, but nobody wants to take that chance.
If you look at the ratings in NJ, Thunder Country 106.3 continues to rise. This shows people are discovering country music and liking it. Kicks 105.5 just expanded their coverage on 106.3 in Westchester. Part of the reason country music "won't work" in NYC is because people don't know anything about it. They have no exposure to it, so they don't even know whether or not they would like it. If a station was programmed correctly (targeting a more suburban audience), it could work, but nobody wants to take that chance.
If New York is so damn different...well then just do country, but do it different.
Simply find a smart, creative programmer who can read a Soundscan chart.
Run it cheap and with none of that over the top patriotic imaging.
Hell, don't even use the word 'country.'
Let the music "Carrie" it.
Simply find a smart, creative programmer who can read a Soundscan chart.
Run it cheap and with none of that over the top patriotic imaging.
Hell, don't even use the word 'country.'
Let the music "Carrie" it.
It appears that the parts of the Metro area that are most interested in country music now have suburban stations carrying the format. The northern suburbs have Kicks 105.5/106.3. Coastal NJ has Thunder 106.3/106.5. Eastern LI and parts of coastal CT has WJVC.
BTW, the FM News 101.9 website mentions that cab drivers can get a $50 "tip" if the "FM News Junkie" rides in their car, and hears the station playing. This is a step up from the air fresheners they were giving cabbies
.
BTW, the FM News 101.9 website mentions that cab drivers can get a $50 "tip" if the "FM News Junkie" rides in their car, and hears the station playing. This is a step up from the air fresheners they were giving cabbies
.crainbebo said:
Are you kidding? "CD 101.9?" Why don't you just call it 8-Track 102? No station is going to use CD in their branding this century. It's also very unlikely that smooth jazz is going to make any miraculous returns to the Tri-State area this century. Country? Maybe, but I doubt it. WYNY would be a good set of calls because they sound like 'winy'.
Since we're all making requests, mine is alternative on 101.9. IMO, RXP was a bit poorly programmed. It was okay, but it was unique... in a bad way. First of all, I seriously doubt Merlin is going to bring music to 101.9 anytime soon, but if they do, alternative is not out of the question (be it on 101.9 or some other frequency). After all, Merlin resurrected Q in Chicago. I've been listening online, and I think if their Q were over-the-air in NYC, it would do alright in the ratings (I'm sure it would do better than FM News). Jim Richards gets a thumbs up.
"Q" sounds okay. A bit too conservative for my tastes, but hopefully they expand the playlist a little after the honeymoon phase is over. Hopefully it makes a splash in it's first book.ncountysurf said:
Just a couple of items from other markets that might have some bearing on the discussion of WEMP.
Merlin's new Philly talk FM, has just hired former NJ-101.5 "Jersey Guy" talk show host Casey Bartholomew. That makes, at least, the third former NJ-101.5 talk show host on the station's staff. That might provide a hint as to the direction that station's non-syndicated talk will go, and it may also indicate the direction WEMP could go, if it does drop news and switches to a talk format.
And, unfortunately, Boston is apparently about to lose an Alternative format. WFNX is being sold to Clear Channel. The tipoff that Clear Channel won't keep the Alternative format is that the current owner, Phoenix, is keeping all the intellectual property of the Alternative station including the call letters. If Clear Channel was keeping the format, it would want the intellectual property.
In informing the station employees of the sale, the current station owner said this: "Despite its celebrated history, its cutting edge programming , its tradition of breaking new music, its ardent fans among listeners and advertisers, for some time it has been difficult to sustain the station -- especially since the start of the Great Recession. And that is why the station is being sold."
The good news for Alternative fans is that Boston still has one commercial Alternative station left, and several college stations that play Alternative.
Merlin's new Philly talk FM, has just hired former NJ-101.5 "Jersey Guy" talk show host Casey Bartholomew. That makes, at least, the third former NJ-101.5 talk show host on the station's staff. That might provide a hint as to the direction that station's non-syndicated talk will go, and it may also indicate the direction WEMP could go, if it does drop news and switches to a talk format.
And, unfortunately, Boston is apparently about to lose an Alternative format. WFNX is being sold to Clear Channel. The tipoff that Clear Channel won't keep the Alternative format is that the current owner, Phoenix, is keeping all the intellectual property of the Alternative station including the call letters. If Clear Channel was keeping the format, it would want the intellectual property.
In informing the station employees of the sale, the current station owner said this: "Despite its celebrated history, its cutting edge programming , its tradition of breaking new music, its ardent fans among listeners and advertisers, for some time it has been difficult to sustain the station -- especially since the start of the Great Recession. And that is why the station is being sold."
The good news for Alternative fans is that Boston still has one commercial Alternative station left, and several college stations that play Alternative.
Boston Business Journal states, "According to one source at the company...there is speculation that Clear Channel will switch the Boston alternative station to a country and western, or Spanish-language talk format."
Perhaps CC would like to compete with country station WKLB, which has climbed to #2 in Boston, in the overall rankings.
Perhaps CC would like to compete with country station WKLB, which has climbed to #2 in Boston, in the overall rankings.
I think it time Country Music (and Dance Music) formats returned to NYC Radio but if Country Returns to a NYC Stick it needs to be different Than what was done in the past.
Thunder is a good example of doing it different. Their music or format which they call Rockin Country seems to be more upbeat than what previous country stations like Y107 (the Quad cast) WYNY 97.1 and later 103.5, the short lived country Kicks (now Lite FM) and even the old 1050 AM WHN used to play. The country music of today seems to be a lot different then what is now called classic country (Mostly tear jerker songs). There seems to be a few different types of country formats judging from whats on sat. radio and Music choice channels on my cable system. Classic country (medium slow mostly twangy sounding guitars), Formats that focus on the 70's, 80's Country, Bluegrass and today's country. I don't think the classic country like Willie' place on XM would work in New York or Blue Grass which can be heard as speciality shows on College or other Non Coms in the area. I do think an upbeat Country Rock format like Thunder has with an occasional past hit from the Mid 80's, 90's and today would work in New York if Marketed correctly. I think If New Yorkers heard what Today's country music sounds like they just might like it and if you have the listeners, advertisers would support the station. A recent post that said to put country music on the radio but don't call it country or use the word country had a great idea. Call it the New Rockin Sound For New York City At (whatever the Frequency). Do advertising like something new is coming to New York Radio get ready to rock and get out your dancing shoes.
The trick is not to get current country music lovers to listen they will find the station once word of mouth gets The trick is attract new listeners who would not even give it a try if they new the station was playing country music. Then after the station gets established then start using the word country, new country, rockin country whatever. This format could also contain crossover artists Like Kid Rock which I think Thunder plays.
When Thunder started off small was on 98.5 FM with a directional antenna that covered basically Ocean county and a small part of Northern Monmouth. I think Press Communication made some smart moves to get the station where it is today. First off about a year or so into the country music format they started tweaking the format to a more upbeat and Rockin sound and Rebranded as Thunder Country which is used by other country stations in the US but was new to this area since the stations in Phila or Ac and whatever Country stations in NY state Don't use it.
They promoted the station with live concerts, club and Bar Remotes Billboards and other
advertising and then when they found the chr format they put on 106.3 (Eatontown ) and 106.5 (Bass river twp) was not working rather then put another format on those frequencys that mostly everyone else was doing they did a Frequency Swap moving the country format to the better ocean county signal and the addition of the monmouth county signal. Thunder 985 was now Thunder 106 106.3 in Monmouth and 106.5 in Ocean County. My point is they believed enough in the country music format to get it out to more listeners and it looks like it's working. I think the time is right to get a country station and a real Dance station back in New York City but I must agree with most on this board that looking at what merlin is doing with 106.9 in Phil and their new program director if all news fails in NYC and Chicago Merlin will still try some sort of Spoken Format before throwing in the towel and going back to music. For country Music and Dance Music Fans another Frequency needs to be found. How about WFME simulcasting Thunder whenever it finally goes on the block.
Thunder is a good example of doing it different. Their music or format which they call Rockin Country seems to be more upbeat than what previous country stations like Y107 (the Quad cast) WYNY 97.1 and later 103.5, the short lived country Kicks (now Lite FM) and even the old 1050 AM WHN used to play. The country music of today seems to be a lot different then what is now called classic country (Mostly tear jerker songs). There seems to be a few different types of country formats judging from whats on sat. radio and Music choice channels on my cable system. Classic country (medium slow mostly twangy sounding guitars), Formats that focus on the 70's, 80's Country, Bluegrass and today's country. I don't think the classic country like Willie' place on XM would work in New York or Blue Grass which can be heard as speciality shows on College or other Non Coms in the area. I do think an upbeat Country Rock format like Thunder has with an occasional past hit from the Mid 80's, 90's and today would work in New York if Marketed correctly. I think If New Yorkers heard what Today's country music sounds like they just might like it and if you have the listeners, advertisers would support the station. A recent post that said to put country music on the radio but don't call it country or use the word country had a great idea. Call it the New Rockin Sound For New York City At (whatever the Frequency). Do advertising like something new is coming to New York Radio get ready to rock and get out your dancing shoes.
The trick is not to get current country music lovers to listen they will find the station once word of mouth gets The trick is attract new listeners who would not even give it a try if they new the station was playing country music. Then after the station gets established then start using the word country, new country, rockin country whatever. This format could also contain crossover artists Like Kid Rock which I think Thunder plays.
When Thunder started off small was on 98.5 FM with a directional antenna that covered basically Ocean county and a small part of Northern Monmouth. I think Press Communication made some smart moves to get the station where it is today. First off about a year or so into the country music format they started tweaking the format to a more upbeat and Rockin sound and Rebranded as Thunder Country which is used by other country stations in the US but was new to this area since the stations in Phila or Ac and whatever Country stations in NY state Don't use it.
They promoted the station with live concerts, club and Bar Remotes Billboards and other
advertising and then when they found the chr format they put on 106.3 (Eatontown ) and 106.5 (Bass river twp) was not working rather then put another format on those frequencys that mostly everyone else was doing they did a Frequency Swap moving the country format to the better ocean county signal and the addition of the monmouth county signal. Thunder 985 was now Thunder 106 106.3 in Monmouth and 106.5 in Ocean County. My point is they believed enough in the country music format to get it out to more listeners and it looks like it's working. I think the time is right to get a country station and a real Dance station back in New York City but I must agree with most on this board that looking at what merlin is doing with 106.9 in Phil and their new program director if all news fails in NYC and Chicago Merlin will still try some sort of Spoken Format before throwing in the towel and going back to music. For country Music and Dance Music Fans another Frequency needs to be found. How about WFME simulcasting Thunder whenever it finally goes on the block.
jvn said:
I like that idea, particularly since a lot of country music really has nothing to do with a country living lifestyle. Most songs now are about life (i.e. "Reality" by Kenny Chesney).
A country station on WFME would be great, considering that even with the current suburban country stations, most of northern NJ is out of range of those stations.
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The only format which succeeded on 101.9 was Smooth Jazz. Bring it back!!!!
Some of the earlier posts citing early/mid 90's-era WYNY as proof that Country cannot possibly work in 2012 are absurd!!!
Country music's audience skewed older & more male back then. The format has since broadened its demographics and does particularly well with middle-aged females. While it would not grab big numbers in New York, it would certainly fare much better than FM News 101.9.
The station's demographical composition would likely be similar to that of WPLJ, if tried.
As for alternative "not working," WXRK under Tracy what's-her-face was a poorly programmed piece of garbage with imaging & a morning show much more representative of an active rock station targeting angry white males. The stationality was the complete opposite of WRFF and WBOS.
WRXP didn't become straight-ahead modern rock until its last year on the air, and was hampered by an awful morning show for much of its life. After the programming tweaks, including a more focused music playlist, the ratings indeed began a very slow but steady upward trend. With the indie-flavored side of the Modern Rock format currently witnessing a flurry of new music, WRXP at minimum would probably be at a 2.5 right now if it were still on the air. That's 4x the AQH share of the current format.
Y-100 had lackluster ratings in Philly in its last few years on the air. Often scored below a 3 share in ages 12+. Radio 104-5 with its very music-intensive orientation was almost an instant success and is routinely one of the most listened to stations in the market. None of the flavors of alternative tried in NYC were packaged in the same fashion as WRFF.
Country music's audience skewed older & more male back then. The format has since broadened its demographics and does particularly well with middle-aged females. While it would not grab big numbers in New York, it would certainly fare much better than FM News 101.9.
The station's demographical composition would likely be similar to that of WPLJ, if tried.
As for alternative "not working," WXRK under Tracy what's-her-face was a poorly programmed piece of garbage with imaging & a morning show much more representative of an active rock station targeting angry white males. The stationality was the complete opposite of WRFF and WBOS.
WRXP didn't become straight-ahead modern rock until its last year on the air, and was hampered by an awful morning show for much of its life. After the programming tweaks, including a more focused music playlist, the ratings indeed began a very slow but steady upward trend. With the indie-flavored side of the Modern Rock format currently witnessing a flurry of new music, WRXP at minimum would probably be at a 2.5 right now if it were still on the air. That's 4x the AQH share of the current format.
Y-100 had lackluster ratings in Philly in its last few years on the air. Often scored below a 3 share in ages 12+. Radio 104-5 with its very music-intensive orientation was almost an instant success and is routinely one of the most listened to stations in the market. None of the flavors of alternative tried in NYC were packaged in the same fashion as WRFF.
The poster before me. It's about time someone agreed with me. It's how it's programmed and run like anything at all determines it's success. If it's presented correctly and well done then it will go far. WRFF is something that I have been waiting for in NYC forever. When I'm at school I can pick up Radio 104.5 It's awesome I love it. If only NYC could have a station like this.
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