Cable Channel Re-arraingments

[Neel]

I just got a notice today saying Charter Cable is going to re-do the channel line-up in January. I must say, it's been many years since we got a major channel line up change but I don't get this one. Seems like all the less popular channels like QVC, Home Shopping Network, Univision, etc are moving to low VHF numbers while USA, CNN and ESPN are moving to high numbers like in the 60s. In fact you have to flip through all the foreign language and religious channels before you get to anything interesting. In addition, they also put QVC again between the local HD channels even though QVC won't be in HD.

When just about everything else can be customized these days, why won't cable companies let us customize our own lineups with their cable boxes?

 

[pabsungenis]

Actually, one thing I loved about, and miss, from my days with DirecTV was that you actually had your local channels on their real channel number, and everything else up over 100. Now with analog cable starting to be phased out I'd like to see that start to happen on cable.

I'd like to be able to dial 3 for Channel 3, 6 for Channel 6, 10 for 10, 17 for 17, 29 for 29, 57 for 57 and so on, instead of hunting for the channel I want. In fact, I might go to digital antenna for the networks and cut the cable altogether soon I'm so sick of my provider. And I watch so little on the basic cable channels any more.

 

[searadiofreak]

The only thing this really affects is local channels who brand their identities with their channel number. In some cases, this is still critical, as many viewers, especially in the 35-54 demo, still identify by number. I believe smart cable operators will do everything possible to leave those alone. However, local news operators should probably start considering moving their branding "away" from channel numbers, and more toward a particular non-channel brand. "ABC-Denver", "NBC-St. Louis", "Fox Detroit", etc. In some cases this is already happening. I predict channel numbers will be less important in the next decade. But, if some affiliates can hang on to their original channels on cable, all the better for them.

 

[BRNout]

I just got a notice today saying Charter Cable is going to re-do the channel line-up in January. I must say, it's been many years since we got a major channel line up change but I don't get this one. Seems like all the less popular channels like QVC, Home Shopping Network, Univision, etc are moving to low VHF numbers while USA, CNN and ESPN are moving to high numbers like in the 60s. In fact you have to flip through all the foreign language and religious channels before you get to anything interesting. In addition, they also put QVC again between the local HD channels even though QVC won't be in HD.

When just about everything else can be customized these days, why won't cable companies let us customize our own lineups with their cable boxes?

Yeah, it aggravates me that cable companies tend to pull out all the stops when it comes to promoting these damn shopping channels that very few watch. Put them on the digital tier and forget them, I say. But no.

When our Comcast system moved channels around last year, Sci Fi (well, it was then) and a couple of other channels were launched from the analog 50s and 60s down to the digital 150s. BUT, QVC was promoted from channel 50-something to......channel 3. It's not even a local broadcast channel, yet there it is on top of the heap. HSN and the others all manage to be on the analog tier, even as other more-watched channels are bumped from the analog tier to digital and replaced with nothing.

To quote Peter Griffin: "it really grinds my gears!"

 

[MarcB]

Earlier this year (after the the analog shut-down) COMCAST moved WFSB/3 in Hartford, CT from Channel 2 to Channel 3 on all its systems that didn't already have it on Channel 3. Channel 2 is now vacant instead of 3.

COX Cable on it's 3 Connecticut Franchises also moved WFSB from Channel 2 to Channel 3. This resulted in COX Sports Television moving from Channel 3 to Channel 2. COX Sports Television shows infomercials some 12+ hours a day (some tho are for local businesses), so they ended up with an infomercial on Channel 2 which I call Prime Real Estate. For whatever reason they never moved WTNH/8 from Channel 7 to Channel 8 and so HSN remains on Channel 8.

My Comcast system now is Digital Only for all channels over 24. Previously only 37 Tru-TV and 38 Hallmark were digitial only.

 

[Markxxx]

I have Comcast in Chicago, and it's the very basic service, (I can't get OTA DTV so I had to get cable. Yes in Chicago lots of places can't get DTV because of the buildings).

Oddly enough if I use the digital box they give you, all the cable channels appear as they would. For instance, WPWR Channel 50 is on channel 8. In fact WPWR-TV advertises itself as "Channel 50 / Cable 8."

But since I get no premium channels I don't need the box, so I let my TV, which can receive both OTA digital and Cable digital, scan the channels.

When I use the digital cable built into the TV the OTA stations come in on their exact channels. For instance, WPWR-TV comes in on Channel 50 on my TV if I use the TV digital cable, but if I use the box, the digital is on Channel 8.

All the TV stations except for WJYS come in on their actual (Virtual) numbers. WJYS which should be virtual channel 62 comes in on channel 36, which is it's actual digital channel

And the subchannels come in correct to.

Then the free cable channels like the shopping channels, all start after channel 70 if I use the TV to find the digital cable. Then starting at 200 I get the OTA channels again. Like WBBM-TV comes in on channel 2 and 202. And WLS comes in on channel 7 and Channel 207. I guess the 200s are the HDTV form of digital? I only have a SDTV set, so I can't tell.

 

[dave73]

I haven't been able to keep up with Comcast Gary, and their channel lineup. They move their channels around quite often. I last remember WYIN being on cable 12, but they moved it to their real channel of 17, with WFLD from being on 6 to 12. If I remember correctly, WCIU used to be on cable 10, but they're on 6. WGBO is on 10, and I last remember them being on 14 or 15. WSNS is on 14, but used to be on 13. MeTV & MeToo are on the digital lineup. Create, WTTW Prime, V-Me, LiveWell HD, LATV, MHZ Worldwide, FBT (WCIU 26.6), Ion Life, Qubo, or WEDE-CA (via WJYS 62.2) are on the lineup at all. So for those who want these channels need the outdoor antenna. Now for Comcast Lake County Indiana (on the other side of my street), the main channels are on regular cable, and the HD versions of the channels, plus all subchannels are in the upper 100's & the 200 range of digital cable.

As for satellite such as DirecTV, the local channels (not subchannels, as they don't carry those yet) are on their original analog channels. Those with older equipment (such as myself with equipment from 1999) might still be able to use the boxes. However, they aren't made for receiving local channels on the actual channel. I remember when local channels were offered in my area around 2000, only ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, and local WGN were offered on the service in the 800's. I don't know if my box is completely obsolete or not. If so, then local channels are out with that box, or box not being good at all.

 

[DToTheJ]

I guess cable systems favor shopping channels in the top portion of their lineups, meshing with broadcast channels, so it can be easier to package for customers who choose "the cheapest option."

 

[mnradiofan]

Forgive me for sounding like an ass here, but you are all missing the obvious with putting these channels in the lower numbers. $$$$$$$$$$. Period. Most shopping channels pay the cable company for carriage (or a better channel number) and most networks have a certain level of "profit sharing" with the cable company. Thats why there are so many different 800 numbers for these places.

In many markets, such as NY and Chicago, Channel numbers are part of the negotiated carrage contract. IE we will give you channel A for this much money per sub per month, and we want to be on Channel 30.

This is especially true of the operators that run many cable channels. It's not just coincidental that all the fox networks are together on some systems, or all the Turner networks are together on another system.

 

[Neel]

Yea, I figured it makes it easier for people who just have basic or off-air channels only through cable since they are putting all those channels consecutively. With the new line-up they are grouping the sports channels together, news channels together, etc.. Similar to what Fios and the satellite providers do with their line-up.

I just wish we had the option to arrange the channels to our liking or at least skip channels that we don't watch, but the cable box won't give you that option.

 

[DToTheJ]

... you are all missing the obvious with putting these channels in the lower numbers. $$$$$$$$$$. Period. Most shopping channels pay the cable company for carriage (or a better channel number) and most networks have a certain level of "profit sharing" with the cable company.

That certainly explains why the cash-strapped NBC doesn't lobby to have its ShopNBC network appear on lower-tiered positions on cable lineups...

 

[TheRob]

It seems like Sunflower Cable (Lawrence, KS) has rearranged the cable lineup 50 times since my parents got cable in 1982. The home shopping channels definitely pay for low slots (QVC on 10, two others in the 20s). But mainly channels have been moved around to place "similar" channels adjacent to each other and to create various tiers for which customers pay extra. Time Warner here in Kansas City does the same thing.

I still remember most of the Sunflower lineup from 82-83. Only a few of these channels remain in their original spots.
2-MTV (displaced KQTV/St. Joseph)
3-think it was WGN before KEKR/KC went on the air
4-WDAF
5-KCTV
6-local public access/news and weather crawl
7-KCPT
8-KSNT
9-KMBC
10-WTBS
11-KTWU
12-KSHB
13-WIBW
14-not sure what was here before KLDH/Topeka went on the air
15-Cinemax
16-HBO
17-TBN
18-ESPN
19-Nickelodeon
20-USA
21-CNN
22-WGN (after KEKR's sign on)

 

[adam95]

I just wish we had the option to arrange the channels to our liking or at least skip channels that we don't watch, but the cable box won't give you that option.

This is why I love DirecTV. You can go into your settings and put in just the channels you want. That was one of the first things I did was get rid of religion, home shopping, and kids channels (except Boomerang, love that channel!). I had Dish for about a year and a half prior, but I don't think they had that option. I've never actually dealt with the cable provider in my area (Comcast) but I assume they don't give you that option either.

 

[MarcB]

I have a question. It's been on my mind for years, and I always wanted to post it, but I thought maybe the answer was to complex to be understood.

I know that the cable company receives all the channels at a place "The Head-End" and I know the signals are sent out from there, but I was wondering how it all works. For Example how is it that I tune my TV to Channel 51 and see TV Land? How is the signal out-put to Channel 51? When I was a small boy I used to imagine a large room where all the TV signals come into the building then there was a large board with inputs on in numbered 1-125. Then I imagined a wire with the name of the network taped to it and then it gets plugged into an input next to the appropriate channel number. And I imagined if they wanted to change the network's location, they'd pull the wire out of the input and put it into the new input number,

 

[mnradiofan]

I have a question. It's been on my mind for years, and I always wanted to post it, but I thought maybe the answer was to complex to be understood.

I know that the cable company receives all the channels at a place "The Head-End" and I know the signals are sent out from there, but I was wondering how it all works. For Example how is it that I tune my TV to Channel 51 and see TV Land? How is the signal out-put to Channel 51? When I was a small boy I used to imagine a large room where all the TV signals come into the building then there was a large board with inputs on in numbered 1-125. Then I imagined a wire with the name of the network taped to it and then it gets plugged into an input next to the appropriate channel number. And I imagined if they wanted to change the network's location, they'd pull the wire out of the input and put it into the new input number,

I'm sure each head end is different, but basically each feed is brought down and then pumped through a modulator that is set to specific frequency ranges. In the old days, this was a bit easier. Now, with digital, you have several channels operating on the same frequency. See http://www.jneuhaus.com/fccindex/cablech.html for the approximate frequency numbers and channels.

Again, this frequency table applies to analog only. Most cable systems now also operate digitally by taking the analog frequencies of say, Channel 85, and instead putting as many as a dozen compressed channels (digital) into that one frequency (1 analog channel can hold as many as 4 HD channels and 10-12 SD channels). Through digital channel mapping, analog CH 85 could equal 100-112, or it could be 105, 123, 284, etc. Those channels just "map" back to the original frequency simular to how DTV does it.

I believe in cases such as this that the feeds are compressed and fed into a digital modulator by QAM channel number, but maybe someone from within the cable industry can shed more light on it. From my understanding, a modulator can be either a one-per-channel thing, or it can be a "broadband" modulator that sends out all 725 or 800MHZ at once. The feeds are sent out according to how the modulator is programmed.