Cable subscribers WILL be affected by digital TV switch

[Nate Wesley]

Digital Shift Affects Cable

The main point of the article concerns the incessant message that "cable subscribers won't be affected", when in fact, many users will be. It's news to me because my mother voluntarily has analog cable, and lives in a rural community. She had upgraded to digital cable with a set-top box that eventually went kaput. Long story short, she eventually asked to return to basic analog due to cost difference and her own TV viewing. That same analog bill has crept up in price several times on its own.

Mom watches mostly broadcast TV, so this should be an incentive to drop cable completely, right? Can't do it. Because she's located in a rural community in between TV markets (Monroeville, Alabama, 90 miles northeast of Mobile and about the same distance southwest of Montgomery), catching DTV channels over-the-air would be a generous longshot.

It's a choice of getting overpriced digital cable, or uprooting it for digital satellite service that might have quite a time seeing the southern sky because of our lovely pine trees.

 

[fortmill]

The people of Monroeville Al watched TV long before cable came to town. Monroeville may be 90 or more miles from Mobile or Montgomery, but many of the transmitters/towers for those cities are much closer. The towers for all the major Mobile-Pensacola stations are about 60 miles away in Baldwin Co. The CBS and ABC affilates for Montgomery are about 60 miles north in Lowndes County. If your mother uses cable to watch broadcast TV, it is for convenience only since a number of channels make it into the area quite well using a decent (not huge) outside antenna.

 

[tripinva]

Plus, cable can keep using analog if they wish to, just that they have to down-convert the digital signals for their customers.

- Trip

 

[w9wi]

Digital Shift Affects Cable

The main point of the article concerns the incessant message that "cable subscribers won't be affected", when in fact, many users will be. It's news to me because my mother voluntarily has analog cable, and lives in a rural community. She had upgraded to digital cable with a set-top box that eventually went kaput. Long story short, she eventually asked to return to basic analog due to cost difference and her own TV viewing. That same analog bill has crept up in price several times on its own.

Most cable systems are required to continue to deliver must-carry signals in analog format until February 2012.

Note that Mr. King indicates his cable system is "small" with fewer than 10,000 subscribers. That exempts him from these regulations. Given the population of Monroe Co. (~25,000) I suppose it's possible your mother's cable system also qualifies as "small" and will be allowed to drop analog without paying for converter boxes. If she's on a Comcast/Charter/AT&T/TimeWarner system then they're going to be covered by these regulations.

As Trip suggests, she should try OTA digital reception. Especially if the old TV antenna is still up on her house. She may well be pleasantly surprised. The new coupon-eligible converter boxes have new circuitry that's significantly more effective than what was in digital TVs available even just a few months ago.

 

[tripinva]

I wasn't the one who said it, but I went ahead and did an analysis with my maps. Assuming she's in Monroeville, WAKA-DT 55 (to move to 42) CBS should be no trouble, nor should WDIQ-DT 11 (to move to 10) PBS or WFBD-DT 48 (not that there's anything to watch on this one as far as I'm aware). WNCF-DT 51 ABC is currently broadcasting from a short tower near Montgomery, but will be returning to channel 32 from the same place as WAKA after the transition, and should be no trouble.

The Mobile stations are 65 miles away, so it's borderline. They might be viewable, they might not. They're up pretty high, so it's certainly worth a try.

- Trip

 

[Nate Wesley]

The people of Monroeville Al watched TV long before cable came to town. Monroeville may be 90 or more miles from Mobile or Montgomery, but many of the transmitters/towers for those cities are much closer. The towers for all the major Mobile-Pensacola stations are about 60 miles away in Baldwin Co. The CBS and ABC affilates for Montgomery are about 60 miles north in Lowndes County. If your mother uses cable to watch broadcast TV, it is for convenience only since a number of channels make it into the area quite well using a decent (not huge) outside antenna.

I still live in the area, and trust me, outdoor antennas are still necessary. One has to remember that those signals that Monroeville got for years will be gone by 2009, and I'm talking about the analog ones. Those you could catch partially and still watch TV. With digital, its either all or nothing.

 

[Poledo]

One point y'all might have missed in Nate's original post was his comment about being surrounded by pine trees. Those trees eat up OTA signals. I live 40 miles east of Mobile and had that problem with analog signals before I got my antenna mast high enough to clear the tops of the pines. The pine trees in Monroeville are much taller than they are 5 miles from the beach.

 

[Nate Wesley]

I wasn't the one who said it, but I went ahead and did an analysis with my maps. Assuming she's in Monroeville, WAKA-DT 55 (to move to 42) CBS should be no trouble, nor should WDIQ-DT 11 (to move to 10) PBS or WFBD-DT 48 (not that there's anything to watch on this one as far as I'm aware). WNCF-DT 51 ABC is currently broadcasting from a short tower near Montgomery, but will be returning to channel 32 from the same place as WAKA after the transition, and should be no trouble.

The Mobile stations are 65 miles away, so it's borderline. They might be viewable, they might not. They're up pretty high, so it's certainly worth a try.

Am I making a mistake going by solely trusting the FCC's maps? Those have been the ones I've used the most.

I had figured that reception of WAKA-DT 55 would be fine, and as far as Mobile, I had some confidence in getting WALA-DT 9. From what I remember of the WNCF-DT maps, their broadcast pattern looks significantly reduced (almost metro Montgomery only), and I was sure not to pay much mind to their STA maps.

One thing I'm probably not taking into consideration: Stations taking back their original channel positions (except on the higher UHF channels) once the switchover is complete. But that doesn't mean they'll necessarily have the same footprint, right?

 

[Nate Wesley]

One point y'all might have missed in Nate's original post was his comment about being surrounded by pine trees. Those trees eat up OTA signals. I live 40 miles east of Mobile and had that problem with analog signals before I got my antenna mast high enough to clear the tops of the pines. The pine trees in Monroeville are much taller than they are 5 miles from the beach.

The trees are a big part of my worries. Monroeville is just inside the path of stations like WKRG, but I'm afraid the trees will get better reception than a rooftop antenna will. Having yet to try to receive digital signals (I haven't bit the bullet on new equipment yet), I wouldn't be as worried if her house wasn't surrounded by two-story foilage.

 

[whit979]

Hey Nate,

I've got some family who lives in Atmore and they have never been able to get anything well. I can't imagine how these DTV signals would come through since the signal is sketchy at best already. The forest down there is THICK. They had to upgrade to satellite a couple of years ago, still nothing on TV but at least no fuzz... Good luck with everything and update on what you guys decide to do!

I'm in Anniston and it's going to be a strain here as well. The hill country pretty much kills these signals off. Sure will be interesting to see how it all shakes out next year.

Where can I get some more detailed info on the switch? Right now I'm having to punch in weird channel numbers to get HD channels...stuff like 18-465...is that going to change? Will some kind of box be required even for people who are on cable?

Roooooll Tide

 

[dustintv]

So I have two TVs, one with digital cable hooked up to it, the other I just simply hooked the cable wire into the back of, and it's at least fifteen years old. Does this mean the latter TV won't work even with cable?

 

[TheRover]

So I have two TVs, one with digital cable hooked up to it, the other I just simply hooked the cable wire into the back of, and it's at least fifteen years old. Does this mean the latter TV won't work even with cable?

Maybe YES.... Or, Maybe NO:

SAD BUT TRUE . . . . . .

From the FCC / DTV FAQs:

http://www.dtv.gov/consumercorner.html#faq16


Can my cable system move programming to a digital tier that makes me subscribe to digital service?

"Your cable system decides when and whether to carry programming on a digital tier, which may mean that you will need digital equipment. However, all of your local stations will continue to be available in analog format for as long as your cable system offers any analog service."



Will cable customers with analog TVs have to buy or rent a set-top box from their cable company? If so, how much will it cost?

"First, it's important to know that the February 17, 2009 deadline for the digital television transition only applies to full-power broadcast stations. Cable companies are not required by the government to transition their systems to digital, and can continue to deliver channels to their customers in analog. Cable companies are actually required by FCC rules to continue offering local broadcast stations to their customers in analog as long as they offer any analog service. This requirement will continue for at least three years after February 17, 2009. The Commission will decide in 2011 whether the requirement should be continued beyond February 17, 2012. This means that customers who receive analog cable service (without a cable set-top box) will be able to continue to do so.


However, for business reasons (among other things, digital is much more efficient than analog), cable companies may be interested in transitioning their systems from analog delivery to digital delivery. If a cable company makes the business decision to go all-digital (meaning it will stop offering any channels to its customers in analog), it must ensure that its analog customers can continue to watch their local broadcast stations.
This may require customers with analog televisions to get a set-top box. If the cable company provides the customer with a set-top box, any costs related to it will be determined by the cable company.
Therefore, it is recommended that analog cable customers contact their cable company to ask if a set-top box will be needed, when it will be needed, and if there will be a cost.


It is also important to note that a cable set-top box is different from a digital-to-analog converter box. A digital-to-analog converter box is necessary only for analog televisions that receive their programming over-the-air using a rooftop antenna or "rabbit ears" connected to the set. A digital-to-analog converter box is not necessary for a TV connected to a paid television service such as a cable or satellite TV provider. Information on any set-top boxes needed for a paid service such as cable or satellite should be obtained from the service provider."


-----------------------------------------------
In the Long Run.... I hope to build a hook up where I can watch Internet Broadcasts on my TV, to watch programs from C-SPAN for instance.

 

[Markxxx]

Digital CABLE has nothing what so ever to do with Digital TV.

Almost all cable companies currently take NTSC (analog) signals and convert them to QAM, another type of signal. If your TV set is old you need a converter box where these QAM are reconverted to NTSC. If your set is cable READY then your TV can convert these QAM signal into NTSC.

So your OP is not apt.

Even if you have a digital signal your cable company may be converting the digital to QAM anyway, so you think you are getting HDTV when you're not.

The problem I have with this is people are so uniformed they may be paying money for things they aren't getting. For instance, if you pay for HDTV channels and don't have an HDTV set, you're wasting money, as the signal is downcoverted but the viewer will SWEAR the picture is better and HDTV quality.

Also according to experts at Consumer Reports it is nearly impossible to even tell HDTV on a set smaller than 30". Yet people shell out big bucks for HDTV sets that they don't need.

 

[Markd]

In the area of Alabama that has been referred to analog signals were able to still be recieved over the air. But this does not mean digital ones will be. A digital UHF signal might not be able to be recieved 60 miles away from the transmitter. A poor analog signal can often be boosted to a fairly clear watchable signal. But digital signals are either all crystal clear or not at all. I dont believe a 60 percent signal is enough to recieve a picture or sound from a digital channel. Alot of people recieving local channels with a digital TV and a roof antenna 45 or more miles from their city may no longer get them once the analog signals go off the air. UHF channels which most digitals are cannot reach half the distance of VHF channels. Why do you think ABC, NBC, and CBS were usually on VHF cahnnels in most markets? Why also was Foxpushing for VHF stations in the mid 1990's?

Now with digitals mostly on UHF, The VHF factor is a nearly moot point. A VHF analog signal can reach 80 or 90 miles and securly a good 60 miles. Even with a 40 % signal strength, it can be boosted to a clear signal. UHF analog signal can reach maybe 60 to 70 miles with enough strength to be boosted and a good 40 miles. But with digital, many people 50 miles or more away from their city of service may still lose signals even with an HDTV or Digital TV.

 

[w9wi]

In the area of Alabama that has been referred to analog signals were able to still be recieved over the air. But this does not mean digital ones will be. A digital UHF signal might not be able to be recieved 60 miles away from the transmitter. A poor analog signal can often be boosted to a fairly clear watchable signal. But digital signals are either all crystal clear or not at all.

If you mean "boosted" with a preamp, there's no reason you can't do that with a digital signal too.

UHF channels which most digitals are cannot reach half the distance of VHF channels.

It should be noted that many of the digital signals on the air right now are interim signals. Next February, when they no longer have to protect analog stations from interference, some of these digital stations will increase power. Many more will move to VHF channels. In many cases the disappearance of interference from analog stations will improve DTV reception.

 

[kenglish]

People are going to be really upset when they find that their basic "Cable TV" service is only giving them an analog version of the primary channels of the local stations, and nothing more. They won't get their Cable-type networks without upgrading (such a nice term for "paying more") to Digital Cable service packages and renting multiple converter boxes.
And, they won't even get the multi-cast channels of their local, free stations, unless the Cable company wants to give them to them.

And, don't even get me started on DBS satellite! They don't even carry the HDTV from many of your locals.


I wonder if we'll see a new "Converter Box" program, or some sort of handout....maybe coupons that pay for Basic Cable TV every month....starting next year.

 

[Poledo]

I've got a hunting cabin that's about 40 to 50 miles from 5 different TV markets. With my rooftop antenna I can pull in plenty of analog channels clearly. It looks like most of those channels are going to wind up with DTV on a a VHF channel. The digital upgrade has me nervous and I've been researching FTA satellite in case I can't get the 4 major networks. Anyone got a link to a site for "newbies" to FTA satellite?
"

 

[jegrant]

I can recommend the FTA section at http://www.satelliteguys.us/ as well as the informative satellite dealer's site at http://www.global-cm.net/.
I have no connection with the dealer - and I'm only a member of the SatelliteGuys.US board.

 

[4dude]

Yes..... This is a disgusting thing thats gonna happen......

I think Digital pictures look like flat pieces of garbage,ill take a nice 0DB analog movie ANYDAY!!! (Which thankfully i have alot of VHS)

 

[anotherguyTN]

I wonder if we'll see a new "Converter Box" program, or some sort of handout....maybe coupons that pay for Basic Cable TV every month....starting next year.

I asked this in another thread, but haven't been able to get a satisfactory answer yet. Will there be cable tuner bioxes available to buy from stores rather than having to rent from the cable system for after the digital conversion? I've been told by people from Charter in Jackson, TN that they will be all digital except for "lifeline basic", the channels up to 22 by the end of this year. I have 2 digital converter boxes and am on the digital basic service, but with a third set that I will probably have to replace soon, I probably won't need a box there. But with needing a converter box for analog sets even on cable it looks like it would make sense for there to be digital cable converter boxes to be available for purchase rather than having to rent. Will that ever happen, or will I be stuck until I have to replace my TVs?