Cable systems dropping distant channels soon?

[anotherguyTN]

Recently Charter in Jackson, TN dropped WSM NBC 4 and WTVF CBS 5 from Nashville, along with WSM's subchannel of Telemundo and WTVF's 5+ News channel. When I asked Charter why this happened I was told it was because of a change in FCC rules that would only allow them to carry Jackson area stations and Memphis as secondary stations, but that Nashville had to be dropped.

Meanwhile Cable One in Dyersburg, TN has announced that WPSD NBC 6 in Paducah, KY and KFVS CBS 12 in Cape Griardeau, MO are being dropped on Jan. 1. Although nothing was said in the newspaper article about FCC rule changes, Cable One's manager said that they were having to drop secondary networks from outside the Memphis market. It was also mentioned that another reason for WPSD and KFVS being dropped is because after the digital transition the signals will be too weak.

It was also mentioned that WBBJ ABC 7 in Jackson may also be dropped in Dyersburg, but that if there is enough viewer demand that it may be kept. Dropping WBBJ makes no sense at all because it is actually only 40 miles away and closer than Memphis. However Cable One has never carried WJKT Fox 16 in Jackson, probably becasue they never pushed for must carry status. I hope they back out on this idea.

I can understand if stations have to be dropped if the digital signal is too weak, but are new rules going into effect as to what stations a cable system can carry, or is this just an excuse the cable systems (especially Charter) are using? However this may free up cable channels for digital subchannels.

I've always liked having a second choice for network stations, but is this ending because of the digital transition, FCC rules, or both?

 

[w9wi]

I've always liked having a second choice for network stations, but is this ending becasue of the digital transition, FCC rules, or both?

I don't know of any recent changes in FCC rules that would affect this situation.

There is nothing that *requires* them to carry either Nashville *or* Memphis stations. If they wanted to they could carry only channels 7, 11, and 16. (of course, they'd lose a BUNCH of subscribers if they dropped both CBS and NBC altogether!) But this has been the case for some time. They could have made this change a few years ago if they wanted to. And they could have chosen to keep the Nashville stations and drop Memphis channels 3 and 5.

I might *guess* the timing is because they're going to have to replace their off-air receivers (and in the cases of Memphis 3 and Nashville 4, their antennas) with digital equipment, and they decided not to spend the $$ on the second set of equipment.

 

[jal41]

I don't know of any recent changes in FCC rules that would affect this situation.

There is nothing that *requires* them to carry either Nashville *or* Memphis stations. If they wanted to they could carry only channels 7, 11, and 16. (of course, they'd lose a BUNCH of subscribers if they dropped both CBS and NBC altogether!) But this has been the case for some time. They could have made this change a few years ago if they wanted to. And they could have chosen to keep the Nashville stations and drop Memphis channels 3 and 5.

I might *guess* the timing is because they're going to have to replace their off-air receivers (and in the cases of Memphis 3 and Nashville 4, their antennas) with digital equipment, and they decided not to spend the $$ on the second set of equipment.

The two commercial stations in Jackson, TN are WBBJ 7 (ABC) and WJKT 16 (Fox). They retain exclusive rights to those networks in the market - so outside ABC and Fox stations will either have to be scrubbed of network programming or not carried. The cable company can chose any NBC or CBS station since the market has no exclusive affiliate.

That said...local stations are now demanding $$$$$ from cable providers for carriage. I suspect WREG (Local TV) and WMC-TV (Raycom) were cheaper than WSMV (Meredith) and WTVF (Landmark). They don't want complaints because of this...so the easiest excuse is to tell customers the FCC is involved (when they are not).

It could be the Nashville DTV signals do not reach Jackson...and the Memphis ones do. Again, they are lying (Charter has a track record worse then Comcast). But since the subchannels were carried...it sounds like they were getting the digital signals.

The most likely reason is $$$$$$$ related.

 

[Poledo]

What are the regulations for cable systems carrying DTV sub channels? My local system isn't carrying any sub channels yet except NBC Weather Scan and that is on a scrambled digital tier that I don't subscribe to (yes, I have a digital DVR and subscribe to some digital tiers, just not the one that Weather Scan is on.) It would be cool to get the extra PBS stations and RTN on cable without going through the trouble of pushing all those buttons to switch from cable to the ol' rooftop antenna. That's a good indication of how lazy I am that I won't spend 20 seconds to switch tuners even though I don't have to get up from the recliner. I'm probably a typical Joe Six Pack when it comes to doing extra work to watch TV.

 

[w9wi]

The two commercial stations in Jackson, TN are WBBJ 7 (ABC) and WJKT 16 (Fox). They retain exclusive rights to those networks in the market - so outside ABC and Fox stations will either have to be scrubbed of network programming or not carried. The cable company can chose any NBC or CBS station since the market has no exclusive affiliate.

None of the stations being dropped are affiliates of ABC or Fox. (FWIW the channel 11 I cited is PBS) The stations being dropped are the Nashville CBS and NBC affiliates.

That said...local stations are now demanding $$$$$ from cable providers for carriage. I suspect WREG (Local TV) and WMC-TV (Raycom) were cheaper than WSMV (Meredith) and WTVF (Landmark). They don't want complaints because of this...so the easiest excuse is to tell customers the FCC is involved (when they are not).

Nashville (and Memphis) stations have no leverage for retransmission consent demands outside the Nashville and Memphis markets. (and believe me, if Charter was dropping WSMV and WTVF because the stations were demanding $$$, they'd say so! )

It could be the Nashville DTV signals do not reach Jackson...and the Memphis ones do. Again, they are lying (Charter has a track record worse then Comcast). But since the subchannels were carried...it sounds like they were getting the digital signals.

Nashville is further from Jackson than Memphis. But as you say, if they had been carrying Telemundo Nashville they had to be receiving the WSMV digital signal - as that's the only way that station is distributed.

The most likely reason is $$$$$$$ related.

Absolutely. IMHO they want to use the two channels' worth of spectrum for something else - probably PPV.

 

[arnoldevns]

I'm going to agree with the theory that this is a money saving move related to the digital transition. The local affiliates will benefit quite a bit though.

 

[Markxxx]

You have to remember the digital signals may not replecate the analog signals exactly. If you're on a fringe area that may effect things.

Also in markets without complete network affiliations, some stations may carry one network on one channel and another network on a subchannel. So when digital comes in, the TV station may negotiate a better deal.

For instance, if the ABC in Jackson, decides to carry NBC on a subchannel and the cable company is getting NBC from Memphis, now, once digital comes in it may drop the NBC Memphis in order to get ABC from Jackson. Now I'm just making that up as an example, but you get the idea.

So far the FCC says only the "main" channel must be carried if the TV station chooses must carry. And it's also the responsiblity of the TV station to provide a good connection.

Some markets are so big that cable companies have been able to fight must carry. For instance, channel 35 is in LaSalle, Illinois. It's closer to Peoria than Chicago but is in the Chicago market. They sued Comcast claiming "must carry" in the City of Chicago but lost. Same thing in Fort Lauderdale, when stations from Key West, which are in the Miami market, tried to force "must carry" there. The stations even though in the Miami market are so far away "must carry" isn't enforced.

 

[bpatrick]

Several years ago Charter wanted to drop WFMY and
WGHP from its systems in Chatham and Lee counties, NC,
since the stations are in Greensboro/Winston-Salem/High
Point and the counties are in the Raleigh/Durham DMA.
But because viewers in those counties have been watching
WFMY since 1949 and WGHP since 1963, there was a big
uproar and Charter kept them. I assume they'll stay; at
any rate DirecTV brings in both.

Another question might be: will DirecTV keep New York
and Los Angeles stations, or Dish keep its hodgepodge of
out-of-market stations? (DirecTV had better keep New
York and LA, since it's hard to get Kentucky basketball
games here in ACC country.)

And yes, Ch. 11 in Lexington, TN, is a PBS affiliate.

 

[azumanga]

Some markets are so big that cable companies have been able to fight must carry. For instance, channel 35 is in LaSalle, Illinois. It's closer to Peoria than Chicago but is in the Chicago market. They sued Comcast claiming "must carry" in the City of Chicago but lost. Same thing in Fort Lauderdale, when stations from Key West, which are in the Miami market, tried to force "must carry" there. The stations even though in the Miami market are so far away "must carry" isn't enforced.

There was a similar situation for KMOH, a television station in Kingman, Arizona (within the Phoenix market); after breaking out on its own after being a KPNX satellite, KMOH requested must-carry status in the city of Phoenix, despite being 165 miles away from the city -- the FCC rejected the request, as KMOH does not cover Phoenix, or offer programming for Phoenix viewers. It wasn't until the station acquired a LPTV in Phoenix, KEJR ch.43, that KMOH expanded into Phoenix itself.

More here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KMOH

 

[w9wi]

You have to remember the digital signals may not replecate the analog signals exactly. If you're on a fringe area that may effect things.

But we've already established that the cable system was already receiving one of the stations' digital signals. (because they were carrying a subchannel that's only distributed via OTA DTV)

For instance, if the ABC in Jackson, decides to carry NBC on a subchannel and the cable company is getting NBC from Memphis, now, once digital comes in it may drop the NBC Memphis in order to get ABC from Jackson. Now I'm just making that up as an example, but you get the idea.

I do get the idea. I occasionally receive the ABC DTV from Jackson, and (rather to my surprise) their only subchannel is continuous weather. Unless that has changed in the last month? - but I suggest the cable operator would have said so if that was the reason for dropping these stations.

 

[fortmill]

Jackson TN is about 60 miles from Memphis and 130 miles from Nashville. WMC/Memphis and WTVF/Nashville both broadcast in analog on channel 5, therefore it is reasonable to conclude that Charter/Jackson never picked up WTVF over the air, and it is doubtful that it picked up WSMV over the air at that distance. More likely, they have used a microwave link for years, and they could continue to use a microwave link for digital. BTW, both WMC and WTVF will use channel 5 after the digital transision!!! I would bet Charter has a new transmission agreement with WREC and WMC which stipulates that additional CBS and NBC stations cannot be brought into Jackson. In return for this, WMC and WREC probably agreed to allow Charter to retransmit their signals in Jackson for nothing or next to nothing. I think we would find that when distant TV signals are dropped from cable systems, this is one of the major motivations. Of course, some distant signals will be lost when stations cut to digital because of signal issues, but I'd bet that is not the case here...

 

[w9wi]

Jackson TN is about 60 miles from Memphis and 130 miles from Nashville. WMC/Memphis and WTVF/Nashville both broadcast in analog on channel 5, therefore it is reasonable to conclude that Charter/Jackson never picked up WTVF over the air, and it is doubtful that it picked up WSMV over the air at that distance. More likely, they have used a microwave link for years, and they could continue to use a microwave link for digital. BTW, both WMC and WTVF will use channel 5 after the digital transision!!! I would bet Charter has a new transmission agreement with WREC and WMC which stipulates that additional CBS and NBC stations cannot be brought into Jackson. In return for this, WMC and WREC probably agreed to allow Charter to retransmit their signals in Jackson for nothing or next to nothing. I think we would find that when distant TV signals are dropped from cable systems, this is one of the major motivations. Of course, some distant signals will be lost when stations cut to digital because of signal issues, but I'd bet that is not the case here...

(and WMC and WTVF are both on channel 5 analog right now.)

Carraige of Telemundo Nashville requires that at least part of the path be digital OTA -- though it's certainly possible the OTA digital signal is being received somewhere closer to Nashville and then microwaved to Jackson.

About five years ago I spent a night out there and it sure looked like WMC and WTVF were clobbering each other - there was a fair amount of co-channel interference on both signals. WSMV looked a lot better - of course there's no channel 4 in Memphis...

 

[Newshawk]

Another question might be: will DirecTV keep New York
and Los Angeles stations, or Dish keep its hodgepodge of
out-of-market stations? (DirecTV had better keep New
York and LA, since it's hard to get Kentucky basketball
games here in ACC country.)

AFAIK, the DirecTV distant network services from New York and LA (except for the CW DNS, which is from Washington, DC) will remain available for those who cannot get their local channels from satellite. Dish, however, has not had distant network services ever since losing that federal court battle a few years ago. They have a permanent injunction against them prohibiting Dish from offering DNS channels. There is another company, however, that offers DNS services and just happens to utilize Dish satellites to do so.

 

[mleach]

Another question might be: will DirecTV keep New York
and Los Angeles stations, or Dish keep its hodgepodge of
out-of-market stations? (DirecTV had better keep New
York and LA, since it's hard to get Kentucky basketball
games here in ACC country.)

AFAIK, the DirecTV distant network services from New York and LA (except for the CW DNS, which is from Washington, DC) will remain available for those who cannot get their local channels from satellite. Dish, however, has not had distant network services ever since losing that federal court battle a few years ago. They have a permanent injunction against them prohibiting Dish from offering DNS channels. There is another company, however, that offers DNS services and just happens to utilize Dish satellites to do so.

Those big satellite dishes that many had before Direct TV and Dish Network, a lot of my friends in West Virginia back in the early to mid 90's who had them got this package called "Denver 5" even though I believe it was actually Denver 6 since they got 6 denver channels. KWGN, KCNC, KRMA, KMGH, KUSA and KDVR ( KTVD never was offered ).

Those few folks who still have those big dishes, I wonder if they still can pick up Denver?

 

[MarcB]

Dish, however, has not had distant network services ever since losing that federal court battle a few years ago. They have a permanent injunction against them prohibiting Dish from offering DNS channels. There is another company, however, that offers DNS services and just happens to utilize Dish satellites to do so.

Yes it's called All American Direct. It offers channels from San Francisco and Atlanta on Channels 241-248 if you're eligible to receive the networks. More info: https://www.mydistantnetworks.com/

 

[anotherguyTN]

I was at my mother's house today and found out that Cable One did go through with dropping WPSD and KFVS in Dyersburg. However there was enough public demand that they kept WBBJ. The cable channels where the dropped stations were now have a message explaining why they are no longer available.

I believe now that Charter is using the digital transition as an excuse to drop WSMV and WTVF. They are fully capable of carrying at least WSMV and Telemundo Nashville now, so why has it changed where they supposedly can't? Also, Charter currently carries some cable channels complete with local ads from the Knoxville/Tri Cities area, so they apparently have some sort of relay system and carrying WSMV and WTVF should be no problem. It's just an excuse to drop them. The "FCC rule change" reference may have been a reference to the digital transition thinking I wouldn't know the difference.

 

[fortmill]

My cable system,Comporium in SC (within the Charlotte DMA) just dropped two out of market stations yesterday---WSPA/7 in Spartanburg/Greenville/Asheville and WIS/10 in Columbia. Comporium announced that WSPA and WIS both were demanding large retransmission fees and would not negogiate. We are now left with NO SC stations on our line-up and the Charlotte stations make a point of ignoring any SC news. Comporium further announced that their compensation to the 7 commercial stations in Charlotte will increase by $2.00 a month per subscriber and that will be reflected in our bills starting in March. Obviously, out-of-market stations have decided to get in on the same gravy train in-market stations are enjoying. This may be what happened in Jackson.

 

[rch66]

In Columbia, MD which is between Baltimore and Washington, though in Baltimore DMA and local phone call to Baltimore, Comcast has moved the DC stations (4,5,7,9) to digital only...so preference to Baltimore. Comcast also moved some NY stations like that in Trenton (within Philadelphia market), and New York is the #1 market, so atleast Comcast is moving the way of dropping some distant stations or moving them to digital only (where they are grouped together only in the 200 range).

But Verizon Fios still offers both Baltimore and DC with DC on low channel numbers, and I think even DC HDTV.

 

[anotherguyTN]

I found out recently that Jackson's other cable system through the Jackson Energy Authority is keeping WSMV and WTVF. I called Charter again to see if I could get a more sensible explanation and was told that the reason they were dropped was "contractual", making it sound like the dispute between Viacom and Time Warner and Bright House, only on a more local level. This sounds like a more logical reason to me, but apparently it looks like their differences weren't settled and the stations are being dropped permanently.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

Time Warner Cable's Northeast Ohio system did a lot of this around the first of the year.

A lot of the "out of market" stations were dumped...Mansfield lost some Columbus stations (Mansfield is in the Cleveland market). Toledo stations lost some systems to the east. Erie's WQLN (PBS) lost Ashtabula and Conneaut (in the Cleveland market).

TBN affiliate WGGN/52 Sandusky lost basically everything east of their immediate areas. That one seemed to be prompted by TBN O&O WDLI/17 Canton finally forcing must-carry on the old Adelphia and Comcast parts of the TWC system. WDLI always had the legacy TWC Akron-based system, but not Cleveland.

My guess on the other changes? It makes retransmission consent negotiations easier and cheaper.