Call her "Owner"

[semoochie]

Thanks for providing a little additional information, Kelly. Now that you bring attention to it, there are quite a few expenses that still are outstanding. Notably, KDUN is run out of a studio in a small office complex in Reedsport. While the cost of rent is not going to be insanely high, it still is going to eat into the budget. Of course, there will be expenses associated with that office lease, and she'll probably need to provide a copier and other office supplies to any account executives who work out of that office. When you factor everything in, the numbers just don't add up. I thought my $5,000 per month revenue estimate was fairly accurate until I started exploring the area on Google Maps. Looking around the area you will quickly discover that there aren't many businesses that would be a good target for a sales package. Coos Bay is likely the only municipality with enough commerce.

It seems fairly unlikely that she's going to make any profit off of this station, this we already know. However, reducing the power to 10kw day to stop wasting some of the power out on the Pacific Ocean might be a wise move. I still don't think that it's a terrible move on her part, as the hobby aspect likely means more to her than getting rich. There are tons of radio enthusiasts out there who would love the chance to own their own station, and run it the way that they want to. What they don't understand is that radio is an impossibly hard business to actually turn a profit. Small businesses already fail at alarming rates due to high the cost of commercial office space. Delilah has been in this business a long time and already understands the associated challenges, and willingly decided to accept the task anyway.

It looks like it's covering Coos Bay adequately but I don't think any notable power decrease is possible without losing that distinction. I can't find a 5mv/m contour but it doesn't look like much more than that. 10KW would be less than half of what they have now! Does anyone know if the Coquille station is still listenable in Coos Bay? It wasn't that great 40 years ago and that's 5KW on 630!

 

[Kelly A]

Yeah, I went through the same exercise. It seems there are only 4 broad line retailers in the city of Reedsport: a Safeway, a hardware store and two dollar stores.

On the other hand, there's not immense competition from other media on the Oregon coast. Still, I'd say it's an uphill climb to develop meaningful revenue.

The way retail has evolved, if you have more dollar stores than traditional retail stores, the economy is likely running depressed in that area. Let's take Dollar General for example; their stores keep overhead low by doing zero advertising.

Safeway only does regional ad buys through stations who cover multiple communities/stores. Stations who cover a community with only one Safeway, generally won't see any of those ad dollars.

 

[Kelly A]

It looks like it's covering Coos Bay adequately but I don't think any notable power decrease is possible without losing that distinction. I can't find a 5mv/m contour but it doesn't look like much more than that. 10KW would be less than half of what they have now! Does anyone know if the Coquille station is still listenable in Coos Bay? It wasn't that great 40 years ago and that's 5KW on 630!

This is pretty common with former Pamplin stations. They sell the CP for being a 50kW station to someone who doesn't know any better. As is with this case, the 'back-lobe' of the antenna pattern is the signal that covers the city of license. As you point out, if Delilah wanted to take a downgrade to save money, she would have to go through an expensive process of hiring a consulting engineering firm, potentially redesign and rebuild/replace the antenna phasing equipment to maintain the same required 5mV/m signal over the city of license, reducing it over the ocean. All that would likely cost considerably more than what the station is worth.

Given the way this thing is designed, just throttling-back power wouldn't help the situation.

 

[The New Chico]

This is pretty common with former Pamplin stations. They sell the CP for being a 50kW station to someone who doesn't know any better. As is with this case, the 'back-lobe' of the antenna pattern is the signal that covers the city of license. As you point out, if Delilah wanted to take a downgrade to save money, she would have to go through an expensive process of hiring a consulting engineering firm, potentially redesign and rebuild/replace the antenna phasing equipment to maintain the same required 5mV/m signal over the city of license, reducing it over the ocean. All that would likely cost considerably more than what the station is worth.

Given the way this thing is designed, just throttling-back power wouldn't help the situation.

I am so very confused, but understand I am not an engineer...always have been on the programming side. How does a one tower array with no augments have phasing and lobes? Is this even possible? Plus the tower is only 4 miles from the COL, so wouldn't a 10kW at 1030 easily put a city grade signal into Reedsport? Again, I am truly asking...I don't know here.

 

[bobdavcav]

When International Paper closed the nearby paper mill in Gardiner (1999) employment really took a hit in the Reedsport area. (The KDUN transmitter is near "East Gardiner".) With consolidation, even the local KJMX FM closed down its Reedsport studios and moved to Coos Bay, another economically suffering area. Southwest Oregon is certainly going though some tough times.

For local-ownership-centric FM listening interest , try KLJN ("The Legend" ) and KDCQ "The Dock". Bicoastal Media is the big player in the area but that does not say much. Of course, don't forget listening to KMHS at Marshfield HS. - "Pirate 1420 AM and 105.1 FM" plus KMHS-FM on 91.3 : https://s9.voscast.com:9647/stream .

The locals in "metro" Coos Bay-North Bend as is have plenty of radio listening choices.

KMHS is a cool station! Can you send me the link to the fm stream? The link you posted was for the AM, and they seem to direct listeners to TuneIn from the website, but I can't get the stream to work on my PC through there.

 

[semoochie]

I am so very confused, but understand I am not an engineer...always have been on the programming side. How does a one tower array with no augments have phasing and lobes? Is this even possible? Plus the tower is only 4 miles from the COL, so wouldn't a 10kW at 1030 easily put a city grade signal into Reedsport? Again, I am truly asking...I don't know here.

Reedsport is not the issue but rather Coos Bay. Reedsport is little more than a bump in the road, with a population of 4,124. The Coos Bay area is over 32,000! If they reduce power very much, they'll have to be content with serving those 4,000 people and if that's the case, might as well drop back to 250 watts!

 

[valvashon]

So. Much. Power. Over the ocean. This thing has been on the air for quite a while- was there some historical purpose for putting that much power over the water? Were there ships that would use this as a beacon or did they actually have an audience (albeit small) on whatever boats or ships were out there? It sure seems as if you could create some sort of elliptical pattern with 10 Kw for example and get better coverage on land, stop putting out so much over the ocean and stop wasting so much power. I haven't dug into the files enough to see if this pattern is to protect an adjacent or on frequency signal.

 

[bobdavcav]

Yes, it has to protect Casper, which in tern has to protect WBZ. That being said though, I'm not sure why they put out so much power, but yes it has to be directed that way because KTWO is a big signal.

 

[joebtsflk1]

KDUN is a one tower operation, day and night. It has no directional pattern. Its night power is limited to 630 watts probably to protect KTWO.

On radio-locator.com maps, KDUN looks like it is directional over the ocean, but that's just due to the higher conductivity of salt water.

 

[The New Chico]

Well, I bought it up because Kelly had mentioned "back lobe" and so I thought there was a new term I had missed out on.

 

[boombox4]

All one has to do is look at ANY AM station's pattern when they're located near saltwater and you'll see that they have a much greater signal over the water. Saltwater affects groundwave patterns that way.

 

[fordranger797]

On the topic of wattage, it looks like they (KDUN) might have been trying to market themselves at some point to the Eugene market on top of their small town coastal market. I would imagine that at some point, the 50kw signal might have put a listenable signal into the Eugene area, even with the transmitter being located outside of Reedsport. Sure, quite a bit of power gets carried west, as with most AM stations in coastal regions, but the eastern portion of the signal probably made it close to Eugene. We now understand that the noise floor is increasing on the AM band, and it's probably safe to assume that the signal is not marketable or listenable in Eugene in 2021. That could possibly be one explanation for the high wattage. Kelly pointed out that it might be more trouble than it's worth to make any amendments to the power output, as that could open a very costly can of worms.

It seems like there are quite a few cases in which a significant percentage of the power output isn't being used in the most efficient way possible. South Mountain signals have been brought up on here before, as the most effective part of the signal doesn't really reach their target audience. The listening audience is more toward the fringe. For marketability purposes KDUN must reach Coos Bay, and thankfully their transmitter is close enough to check that box. I'm not an owner, but I definitely would want to have the transmitting facility as close to the target market as possible (though in most cases, you're stuck with limited options).

 

[notalent]

I would assume she could get an FM translator for KDUN. Not that it would help on the reception to Coos Bay... The poor ground conductivity of sand is an issue there due to highway 101 being several miles inland between Reedsport and CB. Yes the signal does great over the water, just not the sand and rock of the area. to answer another question above, 630 AM from Coquille is still on the air (with an FM simulcast) and has a better signal into CB than KDUN...

 

[Delete My Account]

Wouldn't they have to have another window to apply or find one that could be purchased? They can't just apply for a new AM translator.

 

[boiseengineer]

So...
Has anyone actually heard it on the air in the last 5 or 6 years?

 

[Bongwater]

Bear in mind also that just off the Oregon coast in the full blast of KDUN's 50,000 watts is the Axial Seamount. An underwater volcano that the scientists say could form new land.

And when that happens, the Axial Seamount will be the first place on Earth to have radio service before humans ever set foot on it. Courtesy of KDUN. So that big signal over the fishes is going to be good for something in about 1,000 years.

And what a top hour ID; "K-D-U-N, Reedsport-Axial Seamount..."

You just wait !

 

[The New Chico]

Good to have you back in here, Original!

 

[bigic]

And when that happens, the Axial Seamount will be the first place on Earth to have radio service before humans ever set foot on it.

Actually, they won't be the first. For example, Flevopolder was created after the introduction of radio and TV service in the Netherlands!

 

[semoochie]

So. Much. Power. Over the ocean. This thing has been on the air for quite a while- was there some historical purpose for putting that much power over the water? Were there ships that would use this as a beacon or did they actually have an audience (albeit small) on whatever boats or ships were out there? It sure seems as if you could create some sort of elliptical pattern with 10 Kw for example and get better coverage on land, stop putting out so much over the ocean and stop wasting so much power. I haven't dug into the files enough to see if this pattern is to protect an adjacent or on frequency signal.

I thought I posted this before but must have forgotten to hit the button: There is nothing historic about KDUN on 1030. They moved to the frequency in 1988 and went to 50KW in 2001. As far as putting a lot of signal into the ocean, that's quite common. KFI comes to mind.

 

[Kelly A]

I thought I posted this before but must have forgotten to hit the button: There is nothing historic about KDUN on 1030. They moved to the frequency in 1988 and went to 50KW in 2001. As far as putting a lot of signal into the ocean, that's quite common. KFI comes to mind.

The problem with this particular station/location though, is the ground conductivity inland is horrible. 50kW that doesn't go very far. That, and the population base along the coast in that area is pretty spread out, which equates to a big power bill required to cover few potential listeners.