Call letter questions

[firepoint525]

1.) Are there any radio/TV stations east of the Mississippi that still have call letters beginning with "K," or any west of the Mississippi that begin with a "W"? Were these grandfathered in?

2.) What about three-letter call signals? Are those still allowed, or must they all be four-letter combos now?

 

[quadraphonic]

1. At least two in Pittsburgh are K's: KDKA, KQV. Also KYW in Philadelphia.
2. There's KQV, as well as WIS-TV in Columbia, SC, WHK in Cleveland, WSM Nashville, WBT Charlotte, WJR Detroit, KSL Salt Lake City, KFI Los Angeles. I'm sure there are others that others can name off the top of their heads.

 

[1069_KIFR]

3 letter station
KGO-AM, San Francisco

 

[Banjomax]

1.) Are there any radio/TV stations east of the Mississippi that still have call letters beginning with "K," or any west of the Mississippi that begin with a "W"? Were these grandfathered in?

Yes and yes. Many Ws more Ws to the west of the Mississippi, due to the original K/W dividing line being further west such as WACO, WFAA, WNAX, WOI. The only Ks I can think of in the east (other than close to the river) are the three in PA (KDKA, KQV, KYW).

2.) What about three-letter call signals? Are those still allowed, or must they all be four-letter combos now?

If I understand correctly, the FCC no longer issues 3-letter calls. There are still a few out there, though. WBZ, WHP, KOA, KFI etc.

 

[1069_KIFR]

W's in the west....WOAI in San Antonio. As of 1/20/09 another W will be in Crawford TX, sorry 'bout that

Also 3 letter radio, WGN Chicago

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

WSB in Atlanta
WWL in New Orleans
WLW in Cincy
KOA in Denver(?)
WLS Chicago
WJR Detroit

 

[davideduardo]

WSB in Atlanta
WWL in New Orleans
WLW in Cincy
KOA in Denver(?)
WLS Chicago
WJR Detroit

WHA Madison, WHO, Des Moines, WMT Cedar Rapids, KMA Shenandoah, WOI Ames, WHK Cleveland, WLW Cincinatti, WHP Harrisburgh, KQV P'burgh, KYW Philly, WBZ Boston, WOR New York, WLS Chicago, WDZ Decatur, WBT Charlotte, WGH Newport News, KMJ Fresno, KFI LA, KLZ Denver, KOY Phoenix, KHJ Los Angeles, KGB San Diego, KDB Santa Barbara, KEX Portland, KFH Wichita, KGA Spolane, KGO SF, KGU Honolulu, KGY McCleary/Olimpia, KID Idaho Falls, KIT Yakima, KJR Seattle, KLO Ogden, KNX LA, KSD St Louis, KSL SLC, KUJ Walla Walla. KUT Austin, KVI Seattle, KWG Stockton, KXL Portland, KXO El Centro, WGL Ft Wayne, WGY SWchenectedy, WGN, Chicago WGR Buffalo WHB Ks. City WIL St Louis, WIP Philly, WKY Okla. City, WMC Memphis, WOC Davenport, WOL DC, WRR Dallas, WSM Nashville, WWWL NO, WJR Detroit

 

[w9wi]

1.) Are there any radio/TV stations east of the Mississippi that still have call letters beginning with "K," or any west of the Mississippi that begin with a "W"? Were these grandfathered in?

Yes and yes. Many Ws more Ws to the west of the Mississippi, due to the original K/W dividing line being further west such as WACO, WFAA, WNAX, WOI. The only Ks I can think of in the east (other than close to the river) are the three in PA (KDKA, KQV, KYW).

KFIZ Fond du Lac, Wis. (I want to say it was a portable station that happened to be in Fond du Lac when the FCC decided to stop licensing portable stations)
KTGG near Jackson, Mich. (issued a K call by mistake - legend has it a FCC clerk thought "MI" was "Missouri". May or may not be true.)

In the St. Louis, New Orleans, and Minneapolis areas there are probably more, given the way the markets straddle the river.

2.) What about three-letter call signals? Are those still allowed, or must they all be four-letter combos now?

If I understand correctly, the FCC no longer issues 3-letter calls. There are still a few out there, though. WBZ, WHP, KOA, KFI etc.
[/quote]

True. No new 3-letter calls are being issued for broadcast stations. (the same callsign format is used for maritime shore stations & I think they *have* issued new 3-letter calls recently for that service...)

It's my understanding the last new 3-letter call was issued in 1930.

 

[gunterm]

WIBW-AM and WIBW-TV in Topeka.

 

[firepoint525]

WSB in Atlanta
WWL in New Orleans
WLW in Cincy
KOA in Denver(?)
WLS Chicago
WJR Detroit

WHA Madison, WHO, Des Moines, WMT Cedar Rapids, KMA Shenandoah, WOI Ames, WHK Cleveland, WLW Cincinatti, WHP Harrisburgh, KQV P'burgh, KYW Philly, WBZ Boston, WOR New York, WLS Chicago, WDZ Decatur, WBT Charlotte, WGH Newport News, KMJ Fresno, KFI LA, KLZ Denver, KOY Phoenix, KHJ Los Angeles, KGB San Diego, KDB Santa Barbara, KEX Portland, KFH Wichita, KGA Spolane, KGO SF, KGU Honolulu, KGY McCleary/Olimpia, KID Idaho Falls, KIT Yakima, KJR Seattle, KLO Ogden, KNX LA, KSD St Louis, KSL SLC, KUJ Walla Walla. KUT Austin, KVI Seattle, KWG Stockton, KXL Portland, KXO El Centro, WGL Ft Wayne, WGY SWchenectedy, WGN, Chicago WGR Buffalo WHB Ks. City WIL St Louis, WIP Philly, WKY Okla. City, WMC Memphis, WOC Davenport, WOL DC, WRR Dallas, WSM Nashville, WWWL NO, WJR Detroit

The ones that I have bolded here apparently fit into both categories I asked about above! They are three-letter combos that are on the "wrong" side of the river for the letter they start with! ;D

 

[firepoint525]

In the St. Louis, New Orleans, and Minneapolis areas there are probably more, given the way the markets straddle the river.

This is probably true in Memphis, too.

 

[quadraphonic]

WBAP is in Dallas/Fort Worth [west of the Mississippi] too

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

And wasn't it WFAA that they swapped frequencies with daily in the same market?

 

[TomT]

Yes, it was WFAA.

The real story behind the KTGG call at Spring Arbor Michigan is that about the time that Spring Arbor college got the cp in 1984 for this AM daytimer the Commission was revising various rules. In tinkering with the rule on call letters, the Commission inadvertently left out the sentence about the E-W "W" and "K" call letter divide. The college pounced on KTGG, probably because the school's teams are the "cougars." Or because the college is near Battle Creek, home of "Tony the Tiger," (It's Grrrrrreat!). Shortly thereafter, the Commission corrected their mistake, restoring the rule about "K" calls being west of the Mississippi.

Score one for the college kids.

 

[w9wi]

Yes, it was WFAA.

The real story behind the KTGG call at Spring Arbor Michigan is that about the time that Spring Arbor college got the cp in 1984 for this AM daytimer the Commission was revising various rules. In tinkering with the rule on call letters, the Commission inadvertently left out the sentence about the E-W "W" and "K" call letter divide. The college pounced on KTGG, probably because the school's teams are the "cougars." Or because the college is near Battle Creek, home of "Tony the Tiger," (It's Grrrrrreat!). Shortly thereafter, the Commission corrected their mistake, restoring the rule about "K" calls being west of the Mississippi.

Score one for the college kids.

Interesting. I'd read a completely different story.

To wit, that the station had applied for the calls WSAE. (the same college already owned WSAE-FM 106.9 there) They were quite surprised when their AM license arrived - and had "KTGG" printed on it. They considered calling the Commission and asking that it correct the calls to WSAE, but decided to keep the unique K callsign. Nobody in Washington ever corrected it.

Somewhat less reliably, I'd also read that the error stemmed from a Commission clerk thinking "MI" in the city-of-license field stood for "Missouri", not "Michigan". Since Missouri is west of the river... WSAE would not have been a valid call for a Missouri station... and so it got a K call instead... That part may be an urban legend though.

A TV station in Minden, La. was assigned WPX-something a few years ago -- this one was eventually corrected to KPXJ, apparently on the Commission's own motion.

A handful of LPTVs have ended up with wrong-side-of-the-river calls.

 

[porkythepig]

WDAY AM, FM and TV in Fargo, ND. Grandfathered call letters. The FM and AM/TV combo have been separately owned for over a decade.

WDAZ-TV in Grand Forks, ND (licensed to Devils Lake). Satellite of WDAY-TV in Fargo although with its own newscasts and commercials.

WZFG in Fargo, ND (licensed to Dilworth, MN). Probably a mistake of an FCC clerk thinking that it was east of the Mississippi River. The river runs through the state.

 

[Duncan Park]

Wasn't the dividing line once upon a time along the Rockies? That would seem to explain the "W" calls on some of the really early stations in the Midwest..

 

[lfuss]

The full-story can be found here: http://earlyradiohistory.us/kwtrivia.htm

Regarding WZFG, the Commission staffers that handle call signs are not the brightest bunch. If someone were to file a formal complaint and point out the rules, it's likely WZFG would be rescinded. I've seen it happen. All existing stations are grandfathered, and there's an exception for commonly-owned stations (WYTZ in Chicago just became WLS-FM, again), but the rule does not permit new stations to take calls that don't adhere to the current rules. Dilworth, MN is clearly west of the river.

Besides KDKA, KQV and KYW, there's also KBUD in Sardis, Mississippi, nowhere near the river. The FCC goofed, and again nobody complained.

Larry Fuss

 

[The Beave]

WDAY AM, FM and TV in Fargo, ND. Grandfathered call letters. The FM and AM/TV combo have been separately owned for over a decade.

WDAZ-TV in Grand Forks, ND (licensed to Devils Lake). Satellite of WDAY-TV in Fargo although with its own newscasts and commercials.

WZFG in Fargo, ND (licensed to Dilworth, MN). Probably a mistake of an FCC clerk thinking that it was east of the Mississippi River. The river runs through the state.

Porky, I read Larry's link and WZFG falls under this catagory:

Owner requests--examples: WACO in Waco, Texas; WDBQ in Dubuque, Iowa; WMT (Waterloo [Iowa] Morning Tribune).

 

[porkythepig]

WDAY AM, FM and TV in Fargo, ND. Grandfathered call letters. The FM and AM/TV combo have been separately owned for over a decade.

WDAZ-TV in Grand Forks, ND (licensed to Devils Lake). Satellite of WDAY-TV in Fargo although with its own newscasts and commercials.

WZFG in Fargo, ND (licensed to Dilworth, MN). Probably a mistake of an FCC clerk thinking that it was east of the Mississippi River. The river runs through the state.

Porky, I read Larry's link and WZFG falls under this catagory:

Owner requests--examples: WACO in Waco, Texas; WDBQ in Dubuque, Iowa; WMT (Waterloo [Iowa] Morning Tribune).

I forgot the station was WZFN until Hennen bought it. The original WZFN call letters were probably a mistake from an FCC clerk, but the WZFG call letters were requested vanity calls for "The Flag" brand.