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caller schools? seminar callers? where are they? urban myth?

C

callofthewild

Guest
I heard Jerry Doyle say that a caller (who pinned him down on a topic) was a seminar caller...I know they did have these in the past....but could some one give me a link to one now??? I think it is an urban myth...It would be easy for one to infiltrate
 
Well, Jerry Doyle has, in over two years, yet to come up with an original idea, so his stealing this from Rush is keeping in line with his MO.
 
I don't know if there were ever caller schools or seminars, but perhaps there should be, as it might make for more interesting calls. PR people have been training interview subjects for years, teaching them little tricks like addressing the interviewer by name and knowing when, and how often, to mention the title of their book or the name of their company or organization. And I'm sure that any college course on talk radio would examine caller dynamics to analyze what makes good and bad calls and callers.

If it hasn't already been done, I'd love to see seminars at The Learning Annex or other educational venues in which hosts (or their producers or program directors) could explain what they do, how they do it, and how callers can get on the air and make the show more interesting. But "seminars" that simply program prospective callers with talking points with which to barrage talk shows in the hope of creating a consensus are another story, and hosts are right to identify these calls for their lack of spontaneity and originality.
 
good idea..maybe stations could hold them..so we can hear better calls and more to the point
 
Caller seminars would help counter the loss of spontaneity that syndication has brought to talk radio.

Seminar topics might include "How to Beat the Screener", and "How to Demolish the Host's Topic" (Lionel could teach that one).

Something else that would be good for callers to learn -- you don't wreck a host's argument by refuting it. You wreck it by parroting it back at the host and then feeding it back on itself until it reaches the point of extremism and/or silliness. The host's guard is down because he has been persuaded to think the caller is a friend/ideological comrade/dittohead.
 
smedge2006 said:
Something else that would be good for callers to learn -- you don't wreck a host's argument by refuting it. You wreck it by parroting it back at the host and then feeding it back on itself until it reaches the point of extremism and/or silliness. The host's guard is down because he has been persuaded to think the caller is a friend/ideological comrade/dittohead.
Have you heard this technique used against a national host? One we can relate to?
I'd love to hear it used against the smug boorish Boortz or O'Reilly. While both of them are right about many things, they can get over the top with their constant pontificating.
 
I don't believe any such thing exists. If there were talk radio caller seminars operated by the left to teach callers how to make Rush look stupid, some news operation would have done a feature story about them already.

What does exist on both sides, however, are forums like Freep and DU and bloggers who orchestrate campaigns to flood this or that show and pranksters who just like being a jerk on the radio and think they're the next Stern.
 
The point is not that a caller should, as has been suggested, "wreck the host's argument," but, rather, raise the level of the discussion so that the caller will be able to present an alternative point of view. You're not going to change Rush's mind on anything, nor should you - it's his show. But listeners aren't stupid, so, if they hear a position at least as cogent as the host's, they have something to think about and respond to instead of a one-sided barrage of rhetoric.

Many hosts avoid substantive discussions by tarring their opposition with a broad brush, e.g., all liberals are leftist loonies or all conservatives are Fascist bigots, and the callers who conform to these stereotypes don't need the host to embarass them, as they do it to themselves. It's the caller who breaks the stereotype that scores the points - the caller who presents what sounds like a reasoned point of view and not just canned talking points. The challenge is to have a substantive discussion that is short, punchy, and within the rhythm structure of the show. Of course, some hosts will cut such callers off because they find them threatening. But the best way to show up a shallow or uninformed host is not to try to change his or her mind but, rather, to present a more intelligent position statement so that some listeners might change their minds.

As for "beating the screener," my guess is that most screeners are looking for good calls - calls that will engage the host and the listeners, and callers that will come to the point and not hem and haw. They do want opposing points of view and not just an amen chorus. Yeah, a host that likes to abuse callers might tell the screener to look for likely victims, but a good host should be able to take on all comers without looking foolish.

But political talk radio, as it exists today, is still a sport. It's not PBS, or even "Meet the Press," and it's certainly not academia. But sometimes it appears to have descended to the level of professional wrestling. If you want to hear political talk as it should be, and as it once was, try to catch broadcasting legend Barry Farber subbing on WABC. Barry is an historian, a linguist, and a master storyteller, and his words and syntax are sheer poetry. But, even more important, he treats his callers with respect no matter what their point of view. Callers call him, not to argue, but to engage him in conversation, and most come away refreshed and energized. The man has class.

Talk radio needs more class. Descending to the level of a host's intellect and style won't make better radio, but raising the bar for the hosts will, and it will lead to better audiences who will expect and demand even more.
 
The point is not that a caller should, as has been suggested, "wreck the host's argument," but, rather, raise the level of the discussion so that the caller will be able to present an alternative point of view. You're not going to change Rush's mind on anything, nor should you - it's his show. But listeners aren't stupid, so, if they hear a position at least as cogent as the host's, they have something to think about and respond to instead of a one-sided barrage of rhetoric.

Sadly naive. The problem is that the modern, post-1988 host lives in a bubble of hot air. All of the show's elements conspire to reinforce the host's self-importance. The host has the better level, he has the studio microphone versus the phone, he has the dump button, he has the screener. If the caller is starting to score points the host can simply use the "mute" button and talk over the caller and do a clean hangup without the caller having a chance to respond. You can't win on the host's turf. Therefore, the best calls are those that puncture the bubble, that break the fourth wall, that call into question the host's omnipotence. Quick crank hits work in this regard. Callers who veer (not wander) off topic and leave the host gasping for breath to catch up (like vintage Lionel) do this. Callers who pretend to share the host's ideology then proceed to argue
for it stupidly and in an Archie Bunker-ish, malapropistic manner, stretching his arguments like Play-Doh, demolish the sense of omnipotence by giving the host's legion of "dittoheads" (or whatever he chooses to call them) a different view of themselves, as idiots.

It's the caller who breaks the stereotype that scores the points - the caller who presents what sounds like a reasoned point of view and not just canned talking points.

Those callers don't get on. They don't build up the image of the host, which the producer knows is central to his bread and butter.

As for "beating the screener," my guess is that most screeners are looking for good calls

See above. Screeners are looking to build up the host and build their own careers. "Good calls" are either supportive or a "squash" (to use a wrestling term) -- an easy victory.

Barry Farber is a towering presence in talk radio. If he were starting today, he wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell.

You can't raise the bar of the host. Most of the post-1988 crop are not too bright. Mike Gallagher would be about typical. They were conservative but didn't grasp all the fine points of their ideology with a Buckley-like precision and erudition. They simply glommed onto the Rush phenomenon and rode his coattails for all they were worth. They drove most of the smart people out of the business. IMO, you're going to accomplish more by subtly puncturing the whole balloon of talk radio, so that it gradually becomes clear to all but the thickest that the emperors of radio haven't got underwear, much less clothes.
 
I see your point(s), but you're also helping to make mine. Listeners have got to take back the airwaves from the bombastic demagogues who pander to the lowest common denometer of the lumpin proletariat, and one way to do this is to engage the smarter and more gentlemanly hosts in more intelligent interactions. Simply bursting hosts' balloons will not enlighten their claque of mindless adherents, and unmasking their heroes as buffoons will only make these listeners more angry and less analytical. The dump button is like radicals at a public forum shouting down a speaker. There's are always those who will say, "Let him talk!" because they want to hear both sides. So you'll probably catch more flies with the honey of reasoned disagreement than you will with the vinegar of a vitriolic "Gotcha!", at least with the more intelligent and sophisticated hosts.

Many hosts clung to Rush's coattails because he was successful and a master of the model he created. But they also had to craft their own image so as not to merely clone Rush's. So we have whiney, mean-spirited pedants like Michael Savage, and a whole slew of shallow intellectual lightweights who would rather preach than teach. At least Rush puts on a show, even spoofing himself, so it's hard not to like the guy, even if you hate his politics. But the bar has been lowered over all, because audiences have become too accepting of good hosts behaving badly and bad hosts behaving abominably.

What I'm saying is that todays political talk radio thrives on rancor and confrontation, and it doesn't have to. Much of talk radio has become a series of jingoist infomercials, sort of like evangelical religious programming, only with phone calls. But there are those rays of sunshine, like Curtis and Kuby, where a show can be a forum for the exchange of ideas and still get ratings, and occasionally elder statesmen like Barry Farber re-emerge to remind us how it once was, and how it might be again, if audiences will demand more and PDs will listen and respond.

It is time for the emperors of talk radio to get some underwear, but we're going to have to take that up with their tailors.
 
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