Recently I have been listening to 1360 WPTT AM and it’s a really good station! However, it is a shame that KDKA and WPGB over shadow it. Maybe this is because WPTT is on a weak signal and its on AM but lets hypothetically propose that you have been made the general manager (or owner) of 1360 WPTT and you have been given one mission; improve the ratings within the next year to be a serious competitor against KDKA and WPGB. How would all of you do that or would you do anything?
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Can 1360 WPTT AM take down the big guys?
- Thread starter ChancellorDukat
- Start date
R
Radio_Realist
Guest
"How would all of you do that or would you do anything?"
I would bribe whoever needs to be bribed to facilitate the rapid movement of WPTT from 1360 to 910. Then, once the station has a stronger signal, I would promote the station as aggressively as was done back when they had the signs on the PAT busses with Lynn Cullen wearing a tank top and boxing gloves, though I wouldn't subject the city to the sight of Lynn Cullen in a tank top a second time.
I would bribe whoever needs to be bribed to facilitate the rapid movement of WPTT from 1360 to 910. Then, once the station has a stronger signal, I would promote the station as aggressively as was done back when they had the signs on the PAT busses with Lynn Cullen wearing a tank top and boxing gloves, though I wouldn't subject the city to the sight of Lynn Cullen in a tank top a second time.
Yeah I agree with you on that. They need to really focus on getting the new signal before they start anything else and then when they move, promote the heck out of wptt and now being at 910. But suppose they do that, do you think anything should be done with their programming? They are in the middle of the road when it comes to politics so I don't know if an 'all liberal' station to go against fm newstalk would work or be a big flop. Ah well. have a good 4th everyone.
I say the best thing they can do is find Phil Musick, Myron Cope, and Bruce Keidan, put them on the air, and tell everyone it is 1988 again.
Really, you have got to be the only person in the entire world who likes that station.
From the morning show on tape delay to the fact all their local talent is past their prime to the fact the Clark Howard show has got to be the greatest bore and a distant second to Dave Ramsey in its genre to the fact the two things going for it- Monica Crowley and Alan Combs- well, one is on tape delay and the other is impossible to hear given the station's signal, well . . . .
I think there's better programming on The Edge. That should tell you how hopeless WPTT is, and considering the ratings they've been getting there lately I think the public at large agrees.
Really, you have got to be the only person in the entire world who likes that station.
From the morning show on tape delay to the fact all their local talent is past their prime to the fact the Clark Howard show has got to be the greatest bore and a distant second to Dave Ramsey in its genre to the fact the two things going for it- Monica Crowley and Alan Combs- well, one is on tape delay and the other is impossible to hear given the station's signal, well . . . .
I think there's better programming on The Edge. That should tell you how hopeless WPTT is, and considering the ratings they've been getting there lately I think the public at large agrees.
R
Radio_Realist
Guest
"do you think anything should be done with their programming?"
Yes, it should to totally scrapped and they should start all over again from scratch.
What they should do, what they could do, and what they will do are three totally different things.
What they should do is to provide an interesting and attractive alternative to syndicated political talk. But they won't.
What they could do is plug in more tired old syndicated programs, with the understanding that the best shows are already taken by other stations, so they'll have to settle for the second or third best shows available. Which would be better than what they currently have, but not by much.
What they probably will do is continue doing what they're doing.
Yes, it should to totally scrapped and they should start all over again from scratch.
What they should do, what they could do, and what they will do are three totally different things.
What they should do is to provide an interesting and attractive alternative to syndicated political talk. But they won't.
What they could do is plug in more tired old syndicated programs, with the understanding that the best shows are already taken by other stations, so they'll have to settle for the second or third best shows available. Which would be better than what they currently have, but not by much.
What they probably will do is continue doing what they're doing.
F
FreddyE1977
Guest
Well, they certainly don't do talk very well, so they may as well try again with something completely different. Line-up is all over the board.......Right in the morning, hard-left at mid-day, veering sharply into Uncle Douggie....no consistency whatever. They started cultivating Jerry Bowyer as a local talent then cut that off at the knees....flipping Hoerth and conservative talk back and forth at random from morning to afternoon drives....so that people who enjoyed Uncle Douggie talkin' movies were treated to rants about property taxes, and vice-versa. Then ditch Michael Reagan, who at least had a nationally established show with following and a track record. Letting the sunrise and sunset patterns determine their programming choices....maybe they are using a little astrology and voodoo, too? Almost anything would be an improvement if they could maintain some sort of consistency throughout the day.
For all practical purposes, this station is a daytimer as you cannot pick-up their nighttime signal from points north of
Century III Mall. More shows like Hoerth's might be interesting, go with a lighter entertainment-talk as opposed to the heavy doses of politics. Maybe bring back Ed and Wendy King's Party Line? I don't know if that sort of format has been done anywhere successfully anyplace though. Go back to playing oldies? Big band? Old-time radio from the Golden Age? Leased Spanish and Albanian? Atomic clock time signals from WWV?
For all practical purposes, this station is a daytimer as you cannot pick-up their nighttime signal from points north of
Century III Mall. More shows like Hoerth's might be interesting, go with a lighter entertainment-talk as opposed to the heavy doses of politics. Maybe bring back Ed and Wendy King's Party Line? I don't know if that sort of format has been done anywhere successfully anyplace though. Go back to playing oldies? Big band? Old-time radio from the Golden Age? Leased Spanish and Albanian? Atomic clock time signals from WWV?
R
Radio_Realist
Guest
"More shows like Hoerth's might be interesting, go with a lighter entertainment-talk as opposed to the heavy doses of politics. Maybe bring back Ed and Wendy King's Party Line? I don't know if that sort of format has been done anywhere successfully anyplace though."
Isn't the real question whether or not that format has ever been done really well anyplace else? Every format has fallen on its face somewhere. Just because a station attempts to plug in the formulas for CHR, AOR, or any other acronym for a format doesn't mean that they've done it well. And doesn't success or failure depend at least as much on how well the format is executed as it is on what it is that is being attempted?
Considering the age of Pittsburgh's population, a nice, mellow infotainment talk format could attract a very lucrative market segment. WPTT will never attract the kind of raw numbers that will enable them to simply sit back and what for agency buyers to beat a path to their door, no matter what they program. But they could create a format that would appeal to upscale Baby Boomers that would be a very attractive buy for advertisers looking for rich empty nesters.
Don't program mid-days just for women, program it specifically for women in their 50's from Fox Chapel, Shadyside, Upper St Clair and Sewickley. Program it for the kind of women who'll casually drop a few hundred dollars for a day of pampering at a pricey spa. There aren't a lot of such women, but those who operate pricey spas would sure like to reach those women.
During PM drive time, target the kind of men who're driving home to Fox Chapel, Shadyside, Upper St Clair and Sewickley for whom "stopping for a drink after work" means $10 cocktails, not a $1 draft beer.
It would mean a total rethinking of their business model. Programming and sales would have to work very closely together. They wouldn't sell any spots to McDonalds, but they might sell a nice package to the LaMont or Ruth's Chris. They wouldn't sell spots to Old Navy, but they could sell spots to upscale clothing stores that require appointments.
You wouldn't see their bumper stickers next to stickers that say "My other car is a Rolls Royce". But you might see them next to stickers that say "This car IS a Rolls Royce". OK, that's a joke, but I think you catch my drift.
Pittsburgh is fast becoming a third world region, consisting of a small amount of very affluent people, a large amount of working class people, and a vanishing middle class. The first station that goes after the ultra affluent market could do very, very well if they do it skillfully.
Isn't the real question whether or not that format has ever been done really well anyplace else? Every format has fallen on its face somewhere. Just because a station attempts to plug in the formulas for CHR, AOR, or any other acronym for a format doesn't mean that they've done it well. And doesn't success or failure depend at least as much on how well the format is executed as it is on what it is that is being attempted?
Considering the age of Pittsburgh's population, a nice, mellow infotainment talk format could attract a very lucrative market segment. WPTT will never attract the kind of raw numbers that will enable them to simply sit back and what for agency buyers to beat a path to their door, no matter what they program. But they could create a format that would appeal to upscale Baby Boomers that would be a very attractive buy for advertisers looking for rich empty nesters.
Don't program mid-days just for women, program it specifically for women in their 50's from Fox Chapel, Shadyside, Upper St Clair and Sewickley. Program it for the kind of women who'll casually drop a few hundred dollars for a day of pampering at a pricey spa. There aren't a lot of such women, but those who operate pricey spas would sure like to reach those women.
During PM drive time, target the kind of men who're driving home to Fox Chapel, Shadyside, Upper St Clair and Sewickley for whom "stopping for a drink after work" means $10 cocktails, not a $1 draft beer.
It would mean a total rethinking of their business model. Programming and sales would have to work very closely together. They wouldn't sell any spots to McDonalds, but they might sell a nice package to the LaMont or Ruth's Chris. They wouldn't sell spots to Old Navy, but they could sell spots to upscale clothing stores that require appointments.
You wouldn't see their bumper stickers next to stickers that say "My other car is a Rolls Royce". But you might see them next to stickers that say "This car IS a Rolls Royce". OK, that's a joke, but I think you catch my drift.
Pittsburgh is fast becoming a third world region, consisting of a small amount of very affluent people, a large amount of working class people, and a vanishing middle class. The first station that goes after the ultra affluent market could do very, very well if they do it skillfully.
J
Johnny Morgan
Guest
You've just explained KQV's audience and business model. They're based around the upper-class, affluent businessman/lawyer/banker who needs to know what's going on in the world, the city's government, stocks, and oh, alright, I'll see if the Pirates won too.
That's a niche audience--but it's kept the station's all-news format alive for going on 31 years. And that's not all Dick Scaife's money either.
1360 and 1410 have similar pattern issues--1360 can't be heard north at night; 1410 can't be heard south at night. But they work around it.
That's a niche audience--but it's kept the station's all-news format alive for going on 31 years. And that's not all Dick Scaife's money either.
1360 and 1410 have similar pattern issues--1360 can't be heard north at night; 1410 can't be heard south at night. But they work around it.
I'll be honest, the answer to the original question in this thread is a resounding no. That being said, it could do things much better than it currently is.
I would agree with those that posted earlier that the move (if it is ever going to happer, and I'd say that is a big "if") to 910 has to occur before anything else happens. If you are going to roll out a new lineup, start from scratch and do the whole thing new, starting with the new home.
I probably don't agree with some of the posts in this thread regarding the existing local shows, partially because of the aging market which is a unique fixture to Pittsburgh (and some Florida markets), but they give the station instant name recognition and, therefore, listeners that can't be overlooked.
The time is actually good to make changes as well, in that there is talent to be had out there locally that would allow WPTT to go more along the all liberal rail they originally intended during their "revolution", though I wouldn't call it a revolution, rather I would market it more as a "common sense" approach to radio. You are in a market full of Democrats, by having shows that agree in large part to a lot of their core beliefs, you aren't started a revolution with them, you are stating the obvious. I agree with Realist in that the marketing of this approach would require more than the last attempt WPTT had to market itself, which consisted of Neil Boortz buying billboards for himself because he was pissed of for being removed from 104.7.
The actual lineup that I would suggest for doing this would look something like this Monday through Friday,
6am-9am Alan Cox
9am-12pm Lynn Cullen
12pm-3pm Stan Savran
3pm-6pm Doug Hoerth
6pm-10pm Unsure of this slot, thinking maybe Stephanie Miller on delay but unsure
10pm-1am Alan Colmes
1am-6am Again not sure, though I am not a fan of George Norry at all and given he is already being carried on the FM talker, anything would be better than repeating someone elses programming when they have a better signal.
Weekends I am a little less sure of, you have your local niche programming on Saturdays which I see no real need in changing. All of the hosts of those shows do a decent enough job in their relative field of expertise. Sundays I am wary of getting too geeked into changing as well, because whatever you change it too, it is going to get preempted by NFL football for 16 weeks of the year.
As I said in a much earlier post, while WPTT will not compete with the two other talkers (at least without a booming FM signal, and those are few and far between), a decent result would have them 3rd in the AM radio numbers (behind KDKA and WJAS) and maybe the the 11-15 range in top 20 stations in the market.
I would agree with those that posted earlier that the move (if it is ever going to happer, and I'd say that is a big "if") to 910 has to occur before anything else happens. If you are going to roll out a new lineup, start from scratch and do the whole thing new, starting with the new home.
I probably don't agree with some of the posts in this thread regarding the existing local shows, partially because of the aging market which is a unique fixture to Pittsburgh (and some Florida markets), but they give the station instant name recognition and, therefore, listeners that can't be overlooked.
The time is actually good to make changes as well, in that there is talent to be had out there locally that would allow WPTT to go more along the all liberal rail they originally intended during their "revolution", though I wouldn't call it a revolution, rather I would market it more as a "common sense" approach to radio. You are in a market full of Democrats, by having shows that agree in large part to a lot of their core beliefs, you aren't started a revolution with them, you are stating the obvious. I agree with Realist in that the marketing of this approach would require more than the last attempt WPTT had to market itself, which consisted of Neil Boortz buying billboards for himself because he was pissed of for being removed from 104.7.
The actual lineup that I would suggest for doing this would look something like this Monday through Friday,
6am-9am Alan Cox
9am-12pm Lynn Cullen
12pm-3pm Stan Savran
3pm-6pm Doug Hoerth
6pm-10pm Unsure of this slot, thinking maybe Stephanie Miller on delay but unsure
10pm-1am Alan Colmes
1am-6am Again not sure, though I am not a fan of George Norry at all and given he is already being carried on the FM talker, anything would be better than repeating someone elses programming when they have a better signal.
Weekends I am a little less sure of, you have your local niche programming on Saturdays which I see no real need in changing. All of the hosts of those shows do a decent enough job in their relative field of expertise. Sundays I am wary of getting too geeked into changing as well, because whatever you change it too, it is going to get preempted by NFL football for 16 weeks of the year.
As I said in a much earlier post, while WPTT will not compete with the two other talkers (at least without a booming FM signal, and those are few and far between), a decent result would have them 3rd in the AM radio numbers (behind KDKA and WJAS) and maybe the the 11-15 range in top 20 stations in the market.
That's actually not a bad lineup- but Renda would never pay for it.
And with the exception of Cox, you're essentially just recreating the 1988 WTAE lineup. Why not fill 6-10 or overnights with George Von Benko?
And aging population or no- don't you think a format that failed 10 years ago on the original station is not wise for now?
That's why I'm so critical of WPTT. I've heard it all before. Is Doug Hoerth still playing that interview with Bob Prince every spring?
I think the original poster probably never heard of WTAE. And I will admit in 1988 it was a WONDERFUL station and I had my dial on it every day. I could not WAIT to listen to it!
But it jumped the shark a long, long, long time ago.
And with the exception of Cox, you're essentially just recreating the 1988 WTAE lineup. Why not fill 6-10 or overnights with George Von Benko?
And aging population or no- don't you think a format that failed 10 years ago on the original station is not wise for now?
That's why I'm so critical of WPTT. I've heard it all before. Is Doug Hoerth still playing that interview with Bob Prince every spring?
I think the original poster probably never heard of WTAE. And I will admit in 1988 it was a WONDERFUL station and I had my dial on it every day. I could not WAIT to listen to it!
But it jumped the shark a long, long, long time ago.
Well, I should mention, that I would want Savran not just as a sports host (though he certainly could talk sports if he desired to), but I would be more than happy if he talked politics as well, after all, the Democratic Party thought enough of his politics that they wanted him to run against Tim Murphy, sadly his radio show was one of the main reasons he didn't run. I would be more than content to let him out of the box and just let Stan be Stan.
While I agree to a certain extent that the lineup has a familiar ring to it, let's not forget, we are in this to make money as well. I could have the most innovative lineup going, and if I can't sell it to the local advertisers, all I have is a station that will be bankrupt sooner. The thing about Cullen, Savran, Hoerth and to a lesser extent Cox, they are all known commodities in the market and thereby sellable and while I am not fans of everything each of them does, I do know that there are people that still are. As much as everyone talks of change and the next big thing, when it comes to listening, they don't want it, even on this board. If you don't believe me, just look how many people wanted Myron back for the Super Bowl broadcast that posted as such. Far too often, people like to talk of change and then when it happens, they complain about that too.
Ratings wise, I don't know if WTAE was a failure or not, I do know that by switching to sports, life became cheaper for them. Sportsfan Radio was strictly barter and it was a large part of their original content when they made the switch. Even ESPN content is cheap for them now, given they are owned by ESPN. How many salraies are they carrying over there now? Two, three? They have Madden, Colony, and newsreaders, not exactly a huge financial investment, but given there numbers, a decent bang for their buck ratio.
I haven't heard Von Benko, so I can't offer an opinion one way or the other on him. I have caught bits of Stephanie Miller's show and liked it, though carrying it on delay does create some problems in my mind I will admit.
While I agree to a certain extent that the lineup has a familiar ring to it, let's not forget, we are in this to make money as well. I could have the most innovative lineup going, and if I can't sell it to the local advertisers, all I have is a station that will be bankrupt sooner. The thing about Cullen, Savran, Hoerth and to a lesser extent Cox, they are all known commodities in the market and thereby sellable and while I am not fans of everything each of them does, I do know that there are people that still are. As much as everyone talks of change and the next big thing, when it comes to listening, they don't want it, even on this board. If you don't believe me, just look how many people wanted Myron back for the Super Bowl broadcast that posted as such. Far too often, people like to talk of change and then when it happens, they complain about that too.
Ratings wise, I don't know if WTAE was a failure or not, I do know that by switching to sports, life became cheaper for them. Sportsfan Radio was strictly barter and it was a large part of their original content when they made the switch. Even ESPN content is cheap for them now, given they are owned by ESPN. How many salraies are they carrying over there now? Two, three? They have Madden, Colony, and newsreaders, not exactly a huge financial investment, but given there numbers, a decent bang for their buck ratio.
I haven't heard Von Benko, so I can't offer an opinion one way or the other on him. I have caught bits of Stephanie Miller's show and liked it, though carrying it on delay does create some problems in my mind I will admit.
I was being sarcastic with Von Benko, who hosted 9-11 with a sports show on WTAE in the 80s.
However, the sarcasm was for a chuckle, not to insult you.
I understand "tried and true," but then why don't we put Mike Romine or Pintak on the airwaves on this station if we're just going to re-hash old talent.
However, the sarcasm was for a chuckle, not to insult you.
I understand "tried and true," but then why don't we put Mike Romine or Pintak on the airwaves on this station if we're just going to re-hash old talent.
J
Johnny Morgan
Guest
The key there is "talent"--something that alot of talk hosts don't have. Pintek, Romigh, Hoerth, etc. may be old and treaded, so to speak, but are they better than what most stations are offering now?
You bet.
You bet.
R
Radio_Realist
Guest
"are they better than what most stations are offering now?"
Compared to second-string syndicated talk hosts, of course they are better. Compared to Hoerth and Cullen, who passed their sell-by date years ago, of course they are better. Compared to how they used to be before they apparently got bored doing talk radio (at least, that's what their show's sounded like), they aren't as good as they once were.
Compared to second-string syndicated talk hosts, of course they are better. Compared to Hoerth and Cullen, who passed their sell-by date years ago, of course they are better. Compared to how they used to be before they apparently got bored doing talk radio (at least, that's what their show's sounded like), they aren't as good as they once were.
How about this for a totally different kind of talk station?
6-10, Bob & Sheri
10-noon, Pam Stone
noon-3, a local show. They will be the only local show on a talker during 2/3 of that time.
3-7, Matt & Ramona
I don't know what you would do at night, or in the evenings, but I figure it's a start anyway.
Thoughts?
6-10, Bob & Sheri
10-noon, Pam Stone
noon-3, a local show. They will be the only local show on a talker during 2/3 of that time.
3-7, Matt & Ramona
I don't know what you would do at night, or in the evenings, but I figure it's a start anyway.
Thoughts?
R
Radio_Realist
Guest
"Thoughts?"
Just what Pittsburgh needs. More syndicated radio, and a mystery program in the early afternoon.
It would almost make me want to hit the button on my radio to switch to AM.
Just what Pittsburgh needs. More syndicated radio, and a mystery program in the early afternoon.
It would almost make me want to hit the button on my radio to switch to AM.
George Von Benko is now doing Saturday mornings at WMBS 590 AM in Uniontown. I don't think he would want to make the step up to WPTT.
Realist- once again your wisdom shines through!
"Compared to second-string syndicated talk hosts, of course they are better. Compared to Hoerth and Cullen, who passed their sell-by date years ago, of course they are better. Compared to how they used to be before they apparently got bored doing talk radio (at least, that's what their show's sounded like), they aren't as good as they once were."
Renda has some veteran talent- like Chilly Billy and Jack Bogut. Now, they are pulling in very few numbers outside of the nursing home- but the people in the nursing home are living long and prospering when they hear those guys because they DO still have it!
WPTT is to radio stations what Braddock is to cities.
"Compared to second-string syndicated talk hosts, of course they are better. Compared to Hoerth and Cullen, who passed their sell-by date years ago, of course they are better. Compared to how they used to be before they apparently got bored doing talk radio (at least, that's what their show's sounded like), they aren't as good as they once were."
Renda has some veteran talent- like Chilly Billy and Jack Bogut. Now, they are pulling in very few numbers outside of the nursing home- but the people in the nursing home are living long and prospering when they hear those guys because they DO still have it!
WPTT is to radio stations what Braddock is to cities.
F
FreddyE1977
Guest
Bill Alexander said:George Von Benko is now doing Saturday mornings at WMBS 590 AM in Uniontown. I don't think he would want to make the step up to WPTT.
Thanks for the update! I used to always enjoy his old Saturday morning show on 1130 in Brownsville. Will have to check him out.
F
FreddyE1977
Guest
Radio_Realist said:"are they better than what most stations are offering now?"
Compared to second-string syndicated talk hosts, of course they are better. Compared to Hoerth and Cullen, who passed their sell-by date years ago, of course they are better. Compared to how they used to be before they apparently got bored doing talk radio (at least, that's what their show's sounded like), they aren't as good as they once were.
...well, if the old hosts are tired and worn-out, then the logical response would be to go with new talent....which is risky, plus the trend seems to be for these people to come from NON-TRADITIONAL SOURCES!! (i.e. local attorneys, stand-up comics, ex-jocks, political types, and
(-gasp-) CALLERS! Most people in the industry have a visceral reaction to that sort of thinking.....
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