Can Clear Channel Sink Any Lower?

[gr8oldies]

Except for the fact that nobody's buying.

 

[SirRoxalot]

The Countdown Continues

Sounds like the wise and prudent thing to do would be sell stations until you are debt free and have the remaining $0.05 Billion yet. Thats simple enough for a 5th grader!

Believe me, they'd probably like to do that, but there's no way that they'd get enough for their stations now in order to come close to paying off the debt, let alone turn a profit.

Big, you and David are geniuses. You're so far ahead of the rest of us, that you and your ilk have driven the value of your stations into the toilet, are on the verge of driving your stock prices off the NYSE because they can't hit the dollar mark, have watched revenues sink, and watched listening erode. You've shifted the focus of sales to from quarter hours to cume because you know that TSL is dying. You continue on the same path that's demonstrated that IT DOESN'T WORK. Now, you're accelerating toward the destruction of the industry. I know, I know, IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT. It's the economy, right? I'm not sure how you spin declining revenue over the 6 of the last 7 years when the economy was booming, but I'm sure that you'll find a way.

Good luck with that. I'm sure that you look forward to the day when 30 guys in NY, LA, and Chicago provide all the programming for all your stations. The only problem will be that your audience will have fled to other, commercial free entertainment.

 

[gr8oldies]

Rox, maybe while you're at it, you can demand that all the local TV afternoon and late night movie and children's hosts be rehired. Maybe all the booth announcers too.

You insist over and over and over again that audiences are leaving radio because they want live and local DJs, yet syndicated personalities have large audiences. I've told you about friends of mine who aren't at all complaining that John Tesh or Jon Rivers isn't sitting in a chair in the hometown, and even seek out those personalities while out of town. And our local talk host, eho according to your insistence should be absolutely demolishing Rush, because he is, in fact, sitting in a chair in Dayton, OH. Whe I was growing up, how dare we, in my small town in Ohio, lsiten to NON-LOCAL CKLW instead of our local swap shop station. Except we did. Then there were even people who listened to automated stations. How dare they!

 

[TheBigA]

Re: The Countdown Continues

Now, you're accelerating toward the destruction of the industry. I know, I know, IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT.

It's obviously not your fault either. You're quick to point the finger at everyone else, and tell them how to spend their money, and meanwhile you invest nothing of your own in anything. All you care about is your salary and benefits, and if you work more than 40 hours, you better get a penalty. You don't build anything, you don't own anything, and you don't donate your time to help others. Meanwhile, the boss is a jerk, and everything he does is wrong. You see what that mentality has done to radio, as well as other industries where the employees take no responsibility for their work.

 

[SirRoxalot]

The Plunge

Gr8, there are some syndicated shows that do well. What's happening now is syndication is the choice NO MATTER WHAT THE RATINGS. I'm watching guys who are seriously outperforming syndicated shows get whacked because their $40K/year is "too much". We're talking about DAYTIME shifts - not 7-Midnight, not overnights. Revenues are dropping after they're replaced because the station lost avails to syndication, and because local advertisers - 80% of the business - are less interested in advertising on syndicated shows.

Want to hear the best part? In a few years, when the syndicators figure out that they can reach the same audience via the web without giving up ANY avails, they'll demand that local stations pay dearly for every avail that pre-empts a pre-sold national ad.

The consolidators are NOT about what gets numbers. Numbers don't matter anymore. Revenue doesn't matter anymore. Service to listeners doesn't matter anymore. They're convinced that they can cut their way out of the bind that they're in. The problem is that they can't cut the debt that they've incurred, and they can't sell their stations for enough to pay off the debt. There are two alternatives - bankruptcy, or decimation of the product. They're even selling off the real estate, creating a poison pill for anyone who might challenge the licenses, or anyone who might get the property after bankruptcy.

The consolidators are doing permanent, irreversible damage to radio. By the time they're done, all that will be left will be strip-mall storefronts housing the public file, a satellite dish, and a receptionist forwarding sales calls to freelancers working part-time out of their houses.

 

[SirRoxalot]

Projection

Now, you're accelerating toward the destruction of the industry. I know, I know, IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT.

It's obviously not your fault either. You're quick to point the finger at everyone else, and tell them how to spend their money, and meanwhile you invest nothing of your own in anything. All you care about is your salary and benefits, and if you work more than 40 hours, you better get a penalty. You don't build anything, you don't own anything, and you don't donate your time to help others. Meanwhile, the boss is a jerk, and everything he does is wrong. You see what that mentality has done to radio, as well as other industries where the employees take no responsibility for their work.

YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. Don't project your personality on me. You have no idea what my community involvement is, what I own, what I have owned, and what I invest both my money and my time in.

You are absolutely right that I don't have ANY money invested in radio. ARE YOU NUTS? Have you LOOKED at the stock prices, and what the consolidators have done to shareholders?

My boss is not a jerk. I feel sorry for him, because he knows what the right thing to do is, but he's not allowed to do it. I've seen what he looks like after he's been forced to fire several more good employees, knowing full well that losing their talent will cost the company more than they earned. I've seen him take two pay cuts now, and he still sees the sword dangling over his head by a thread.

EVERYBODY in my building does yeomanlike work trying to produce the best product that they can. Jocks daily put aside the carnage around them, put on a brave face, and remind themselves that it's NOT THE LISTENERS FAULT. They do their best to entertain and inform within the limitations of the format because they are PROFESSIONALS. They know full well that NOTHING that they can do will ultimately save their jobs, BUT THEY DO IT ANYWAY. BTW, there hasn't been a "4 and out the door" jock in any radio station I've worked at in the last 15 years. Everybody has production, along with 2 or 3 other jobs which directly impact the operation of the station.

Sales people call on an ever increasing number of clients, trying to get a piece of shrinking advertising budgets, while having fewer "perks" to offer. Is "Mr. Syndicated" going to do a personal endorsement for a local advertiser? I don't think so. Is "Ms. Syndicated" going to get involved in the charity gig that the station used to co-sponsor with the client? Nope. Outside of the top stations in the top markets, selling is more about relationships than it is about numbers - and it's not just the saleman/client relationship. Heck, you can't even run a decent contest locally anymore. "Enter on our website". WTF? What's the point of contesting if you can't use it to help TSL? Oh, wait, TSL doesn't count anymore anyway, right?

We won't even talk about the volume of work expected out of the production people that are left. Or the promotions people (person?) that's left. Or the traffic, billing, and other staff that are left.

You need to get out of that corporate office and SPEND SOME TIME IN A RADIO STATION - while there's still anyone left to observe. Not that it will make any difference to a person like you who measures EVERYTHING is how much money it puts in YOUR portfolio.

 

[TheBigA]

Re: Projection

You need to get out of that corporate office and SPEND SOME TIME IN A RADIO STATION

To use your words: YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. Don't project your personality on me.

 

[SirRoxalot]

A Fitting End

Why am I not surprised that you don't have an ORIGINAL thought to share with us.

For my part, the conversation is over. The consolidators stock prices, revenues, and ratings say more than I can about their effect on radio.

Meanwhile, those of us left will continue to do the best we can with what we have left to work with. We'd like to thank corporate for all the "support".

 

[davideduardo]

Re: Projection

Is "Ms. Syndicated" going to get involved in the charity gig that the station used to co-sponsor with the client?

The model of regional or smaller size syndication "nets" allows local market copy to be done, and also allows the talent to be involved with certain local events; I see this every day.

The fact is that most things given to an advertiser were offered as value added by weak sellers. Unable to sell the station, they add in remotes and van hits and personality appearances. If I were an advertiser, and offered anything for free, I would take it.

Again, for the demos where we see other forms of entertainment encroaching slooooooooooooowly on radio, localism is not the issue. Most people under 30 or 40 are totally globalized due to the web and all the TV channels available... right on their phone sometimes. So it's not about being a hometown voice... it's about being the best.

Nope. Outside of the top stations in the top markets, selling is more about relationships than it is about numbers

It's about results at the end of the day. If relationships are built, it is because the station performs, whether measured by an agency by ratings or by a direct account by results. Relationships will get a bad station a buy once or twice, but not in the long run. Most sellers to the big national and regional agency accounts have relationships, too.

I was GSM or DOS or whatever the title would be today of a top 15 market station, and we were #1. And 95% of our sales was to agencies, but those sales were based on carefully built relationships and backed by a massive audience.

- and it's not just the saleman/client relationship. Heck, you can't even run a decent contest locally anymore. "Enter on our website". WTF? What's the point of contesting if you can't use it to help TSL? Oh, wait, TSL doesn't count anymore anyway, right?

That is soooooo old fashioned I am ROTFL. Using the web is perfect for today's listener, and it is a way of making the station more sticky in that person's life. It's like those stickers on the mail offers... once you lift a sticker, you are sold, committed...which is why they do it. Going to a station website and going back are two of the "stickers" radio has. And the web will likely replace RF generators at some point, so we had better be there.

Most of the old TSL "generators" were BS anyway. And in the diary, even more. The web helps TSL by helping to set appointments, and that is what PPM is about. You are way behind the times on marketing and promotion.

You need to get out of that corporate office and SPEND SOME TIME IN A RADIO STATION - while there's still anyone left to observe. Not that it will make any difference to a person like you who measures EVERYTHING is how much money it puts in YOUR portfolio.

You would be surprised how much time in the studio, in front of the music scheduler, and how much time out with the listeners some of us you mindlessly demean in the name of localism actually spend.

 

[TheBigA]

I'd love to see any of the big mouth anti-corporates take a pay cut and work for a mom & pop or a non-commercial station. Just put their money and dedication where their mouth is. But very few do it. They want to make the safe corporate salary, get the corporate benefits, work at the big signal, and get to do whatever they want. Life doesn't work that way. Just once I'd like to see an anti-corporate make the courgeous move, and bring his knowledge and skills to a place where it would be appreciated. I would be impressed by that.

Meanwhile, when the charities need a big donation, the thing they all want is the corporate grant. Clear Channel stations have donated millions to local charities around the country. I doubt that a lot of small local non-profits could make it without CC money. I've never worked for CC, but I have competed against them, and so I've seen them in action. They are worthy competitors, and anyone who thinks they can beat them, even after all the layoffs, will have a tough fight on their hands.

Thank you, and goodnight.

 

[PTBoardOp94]

They want to make the safe corporate salary, get the corporate benefits, work at the big signal, and get to do whatever they want.

Yeah, that safe corporate salary. As a rebuttal to the idea that CCU and Cumulus remain afloat by laying off workers. And they sure don't get to do whatever they want. Management is much more impersonal in a large corp than a station where every employee has every other employee's cell phone number.

I strongly suspect several mom & pop stations have benefits on par with those of a CCU - and haven't laid anyone off in years. South Central Communications comes to mind.

I also doubt that CCU gives more to charities than say, any mom & pop as a percentage of revenue. CCU does millions of dollars in business per day nationally, so if they give 0.1% of their revenue to charities, it adds up to these "millions" that you tout. The same applies for Wal-Mart and their "good works" slogan.

It's about results at the end of the day. If relationships are built, it is because the station performs, whether measured by an agency by ratings or by a direct account by results. Relationships will get a bad station a buy once or twice, but not in the long run. Most sellers to the big national and regional agency accounts have relationships, too.

I was GSM or DOS or whatever the title would be today of a top 15 market station, and we were #1. And 95% of our sales was to agencies, but those sales were based on carefully built relationships and backed by a massive audience.

If you hired Rosie O'Donnel to sell for your station, you agree that you'd have revenues drop?

You need to get out of that corporate office and SPEND SOME TIME IN A RADIO STATION - while there's still anyone left to observe. Not that it will make any difference to a person like you who measures EVERYTHING is how much money it puts in YOUR portfolio.

You would be surprised how much time in the studio, in front of the music scheduler, and how much time out with the listeners some of us you mindlessly demean in the name of localism actually spend.

Ah, yes. The music scheduler and research, more of those great broadcasting innovations of the last 20 years.

 

[TheBigA]

Management is much more impersonal in a large corp than a station where every employee has every other employee's cell phone number.

Depends on which management you're talking about. CC is very decentralized management, so if you work at a CC station, you probably have the cell phone number of just about everyone at the station. It's not that big a staff! But no, you probably don't have the CEO's number. Then again, when I worked at the mom & pop station, I didn't have mom or pop's direct number. Nor did I see them much.

Corporate employees make a good salary, and have a national benefits package. When I was at mom & pop, I paid for medical, and had no retirement. And did I mention the checks bounced? We all wanted to work at the big corporate station so we could get retirement.

I strongly suspect several mom & pop stations have benefits on par with those of a CCU - and haven't laid anyone off in years. South Central Communications comes to mind.

You think South Central is mom & pop? Using that as criteria, I guess Dan Snyder's Red Zebra is mom & pop too.

South Central fired their whole staff in Nashville when they flipped the oldies station to Jack.

I also doubt that CCU gives more to charities than say, any mom & pop as a percentage of revenue.

I think you misunderstand how CC works. If a CC station gives money to a local charity, that money comes out of the local budget, not corporate. If you judge it based on corporate revenue, you may be right. But it's a big chunk of local money, and that's how it's figured.

 

[PTBoardOp94]

Corporate employees make a good salary, and have a national benefits package. When I was at mom & pop, I paid for medical, and had no retirement. And did I mention the checks bounced? We all wanted to work at the big corporate station so we could get retirement.

You do have a valid point - with smaller companies, you're less likely to find the same thing from company to company. There is an expectation for publicly traded companies to have a minimum of salary and benefits that doesn't necessarily apply to the small "mom & pop" operations.

South Central fired their whole staff in Nashville when they flipped the oldies station to Jack.

Yes, I'm aware. But this was 2005? Four years ago. And South Central is very much a mom & pop. I don't see why Red Zebra wouldn't qualify as well. In my mind, most privately held companies that own ten or fewer stations qualify for "mom & pop" status.

I think you misunderstand how CC works. If a CC station gives money to a local charity, that money comes out of the local budget, not corporate. If you judge it based on corporate revenue, you may be right. But it's a big chunk of local money, and that's how it's figured.

Doesn't change my point. If every CC cluster in the country would give $30,000 to some local charity at some point this year, you'd be able to brag on how they gave a million dollars despite the tough economy. And no, I'm not especially aware of how CCU works. Nor was I referring specifically to CCU.

 

[TheBigA]

In my mind, most privately held companies that own ten or fewer stations qualify for "mom & pop" status.

Maybe. When I worked at a mom & pop, pop was the GM and mom ran personnel. And they didn't wear nice suits or have deep pockets.

If every CC cluster in the country would give $30,000 to some local charity at some point this year, you'd be able to brag on how they gave a million dollars despite the tough economy.

That's not what they do. It's all about local contributions to local charities. It's not unusual for a medium market CC station to raise at least a million dollars locally for charity. The national numbers don't matter. But the local numbers go into the station's public file, which is part of the license renewal process. THAT is why it matters.

 

[gr8oldies]

So instead of a music scheduler we're supposed to use index cards? And heaven forbid we do research..guess we just have the jocks play their favorites

 

[PTBoardOp94]

So instead of a music scheduler we're supposed to use index cards? And heaven forbid we do research..guess we just have the jocks play their favorites

I don't necessarily agree. I just think its ironic that David is defending himself from accusations that "he doesn't spend time in a radio station" by saying that he spends time poring over research.

As far as CCU and their donations go, I'll cede the point. I've been projecting what other large corporations do for charities upon CCU since I don't know much about Clear Channel itself.

(I guess I should stop referring to Clear Channel by its stock ticker symbol now that it is privately owned. )

 

[davideduardo]

So instead of a music scheduler we're supposed to use index cards? And heaven forbid we do research..guess we just have the jocks play their favorites

One of Roxies non-points was that "the suits" spend all their time in the executive suite (doing what, I fail to see) and mine is that there are plenty of corporate level people who spend time "in the studio " (meaning "with the talent") and "in front of the music scheduler" (meaning "doing the day to day tasks of programming") or "out on the street talking tolisteners" (meaning "finding out what listeners want to hear and how they feel about what they presnetly hear." Nobody is in an ivory tower, and, even with today's economy, those with multi-market responsibilites spend a lot of time traveling and seeing first hand the issues of every station. The idea that there is "standardization" in playlists and such is much exaggerated; the idea that corporate level management does not know radio is wrong in 99% of the instances.

 

[SirRoxalot]

Look, we're seeing corporate mandating cuts that make no economic sense. Guys are getting whacked who attract far more money than their salary and benefits. They're replaced by VT or syndication, and revenue from the daypart sinks. Yet we're supposed to accept that "corporate knows best". This is not an isolated incident.

On the issue of Clear Channel (and other) "corporate benificence":

How much money that came through the door is actually given to charity? I'd bet the answer is "not much". Most of the "charity" is partnering with local charities to raise funds. Sometime they give away unsold inventory in order to promote a charity event. Sometimes they take it further and actually co-sponsor an event, rolling out the promo vehicle and providing a jock (who usually does the gig for free), and giving it a significant promotional push.

What do they get in return? Free publicity, a boost to their corporate image, and a tax write-off for actual expenses incurred for participating. Most of the heavy lifting of getting publicity out to other media, doing posters, etc. is done by the charity.

Is it a win for the charity? Yes. Is it a win for Clear Channel? Yes again. Is it a good thing to do? Yes - because it helps the charity, AND it helps the Clear Channel station as well. But, it's hardly Clear Channel taking the profits from inventory that was sold and turning it over to a local charity, and getting nothing in return. That happens rarely, if ever.

 

[TheBigA]

What do they get in return? Free publicity, a boost to their corporate image, and a tax write-off for actual expenses incurred for participating.

I think that's a pretty negative attitude to take about it. Most importantly, it is community service. The GMs I talk to are very serious about it. It's definitely not about corporate image.

 

[JimmyNeutron]

I disagree with much of the diatribe that is coming from SirRoxalot. Nothing personal, just my point of view. One thing that I do get a sense from the postings is that SirRoxalot has a passion for radio.

CC, Cumulus, and many other corporations require one thing of radio stations, make a profit. In the end, this is how employees are paid and expenses are covered. Let's say the government got more involved, as suggested in an early post, what do you think the outcome would be? Do you feel if the government was more involved (starting several years ago), the layoffs experienced by broadcast companies in the US, Canada, and elsewhere would have been avoided?

In regard to charity, how much money have each of us given to charity? Is it anywhere near the amount that Cumulus, CC, and other corporations have given?

I would like to hear how people on this board would run their radio stations differently from CC and other giants that would make them profitable, including avoiding layoffs?