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Can I move this AM Station?

R

Robert

Guest
Will it be possible for me to move this AM Station from Ft.Wayne,Alabama to Queens,New York.
The Station is WFPA 1400 Khz. @ 1kw. If it is possible what will be required?<P ID="signature">______________
Robert Dillon</P>
 
> Will it be possible for me to move this AM Station from
> Ft.Wayne,Alabama to Queens,New York.
> The Station is WFPA 1400 Khz. @ 1kw. If it is possible what
> will be required?
>

April fools was April 1st.

<P ID="signature">______________
--- THE Insultant ---</P>
 
> Will it be possible for me to move this AM Station from
> Ft.Wayne,Alabama to Queens,New York.
> The Station is WFPA 1400 Khz. @ 1kw. If it is possible what
> will be required?

No, it's not possible for a couple of big reasons:
1) First & foremost, there is already a station on 1400Khz
licensed to Stanford, CT which is just under 28 air miles
away. No way could you meet required interference criteria.
2) This entails a major change to the city/area of license. That
automatically means it's a major change to the facility
which places it beyond your control and puts the proposal
into the FCC's auction system. You'd have to bid for it!!!
Unless you're a multi-millionaire with a lot of throw away
money, you'd never stand a chance in the bidding process,
especially for a station in the NYC market.
Forget the idea cause it ain't gonna happen. If you've got the
money you'd be better off buying an existing station licensed
to an outlying suburb which covers the market. It'd be a lot
easier, faster, and cheaper to do....
 
> 2) This entails a major change to the city/area of license.
> That
> automatically means it's a major change to the facility
> which places it beyond your control and puts the proposal
> into the FCC's auction system. You'd have to bid for it!!!
>
> Unless you're a multi-millionaire with a lot of throw away
>
> money, you'd never stand a chance in the bidding process,
> especially for a station in the NYC market.
> Forget the idea cause it ain't gonna happen. If you've got
> the
> money you'd be better off buying an existing station
> licensed
> to an outlying suburb which covers the market. It'd be a lot
>
> easier, faster, and cheaper to do....
>

Are you sure about that one? There's one company that is trying to move several small AMs out of the Chicago area to upgrade one of it's signals and on the 1 that did get approval to move, they didn't have to go to an auction. (They're 1 and 1 with the signal moves, btw... 1 to be ruled on still)

-A<P ID="signature">______________

</P>
 
> > 2) This entails a major change to the city/area of
> license.
> > That
> > automatically means it's a major change to the facility
> > which places it beyond your control and puts the
> proposal
> > into the FCC's auction system. You'd have to bid for
> it!!!
> >
> > Unless you're a multi-millionaire with a lot of throw
> away
> >
> > money, you'd never stand a chance in the bidding
> process,
> > especially for a station in the NYC market.
> > Forget the idea cause it ain't gonna happen. If you've got
>
> > the
> > money you'd be better off buying an existing station
> > licensed
> > to an outlying suburb which covers the market. It'd be a
> lot
> >
> > easier, faster, and cheaper to do....
> >
>
> Are you sure about that one? There's one company that is
> trying to move several small AMs out of the Chicago area to
> upgrade one of it's signals and on the 1 that did get
> approval to move, they didn't have to go to an auction.
> (They're 1 and 1 with the signal moves, btw... 1 to be
> ruled on still)
>
> -A

Absolutely...it's one thing when a company owns all the stations
involved and another when there would be different owners. Several
years back the owners of WLIB 1190 in NYC pulled off a deal whereby
WOWO 1190 in Ft. Wayne, IN would permanently reduce power from 50KW
to 9.8KW at night to allow WLIB to substantially increase its night-
time coverage. The deal was allowed because of the way ownership was
structured and because the two stations would not cause any more
interference than already existed. So WOWO took a cut in coverage
and WLIB gained, but it was all legally worked out. Co-channel
(same frequency)interference criteria requires that one stations
0.5mV/m (millivolt per meter) signal contour does not overlap the
other stations 0.025mV/m contour and vice versa. The 0.5mV/m contour
of a non-directional 1Kw station at that frequency will travel about
30 miles, depending on several variables. The 0.025mV/m contour
would most likely go somewhere around 3-4 times as far.
Considering that the existing licensed station on 1400 in Stamford,
CT is just under 28 air miles from Queens, there is NO way that kind
of move would be allowed. And that doesn't even consider 1st, 2nd, &
3rd adjacent channels which must be protected as well. On top of that
Stamford's 0.5mV/m contour goes smack dab through the middle of Queens.
Even though his frequency would remain the same, the fact that he wants
to change location of city of license to over 1000 miles away would
put the change under a MAJOR license change which would require the
auction procedure because the station literally becomes a new facility.
There are a lot more things involved as well. This just will not be
allowed to happen.
 
> > Will it be possible for me to move this AM Station from
> > Ft.Wayne,Alabama to Queens,New York.
> > The Station is WFPA 1400 Khz. @ 1kw. If it is possible
> what
> > will be required?
>
> No, it's not possible for a couple of big reasons:
> 1) First & foremost, there is already a station on 1400Khz
> licensed to Stanford, CT which is just under 28 air miles
> away. No way could you meet required interference
> criteria.
> 2) This entails a major change to the city/area of license.
> That
> automatically means it's a major change to the facility
> which places it beyond your control and puts the proposal
> into the FCC's auction system. You'd have to bid for it!!!
>
> Unless you're a multi-millionaire with a lot of throw away
>
> money, you'd never stand a chance in the bidding process,
> especially for a station in the NYC market.
> Forget the idea cause it ain't gonna happen. If you've got
> the
> money you'd be better off buying an existing station
> licensed
> to an outlying suburb which covers the market. It'd be a lot
>
> easier, faster, and cheaper to do....
>

Guys, he can't move 1400 into New York. But if you have a license, a major change can change city of license and frequency. The last filing window contained dozens of applications for moves hundreds of miles to a new frequency.

That having been said, what it would cost to squeeze an AM into NYC wouldn't even come close to being worth it.
 
> > Will it be possible for me to move this AM Station from
> > Ft.Wayne,Alabama to Queens,New York.
> > The Station is WFPA 1400 Khz. @ 1kw. If it is possible
> what
> > will be required?
> >
>
> April fools was April 1st.
>
I don't believe Queens qualifies as a city of license. Isn't it also a little close to 1380?
 
> Will it be possible for me to move this AM Station from
> Ft.Wayne,Alabama to Queens,New York.
> The Station is WFPA 1400 Khz. @ 1kw. If it is possible what
> will be required?
>

the city is fort payne in alabama
 
> Will it be possible for me to move this AM Station from
> Ft.Wayne,Alabama to Queens,New York.
> The Station is WFPA 1400 Khz. @ 1kw. If it is possible what
> will be required?
>
Why move this 1400 graveyard 800 miles Northeast whaen there must be eight or ten others between the two locations...
 
First and foremost, if this sort of thing were economically feasible, somebody else would have done it a long time ago. There are certain instances where stations have been moved hundreds of mile, but to my knowledge, nobody has ever moved a station from so far away into a major market. It would first require a major change window, then assuming you found a frequency which would actually work in NYC, which is highly doubtful, there's no way on earth another applicant wouldn't file for the same slice of bandwidth. You'd then have to duke it out with the other applicant or applicants. Most likely, you'd be paid to go away.

I'm quite certain that if there WERE a piece of bandwidth in NYC which would accomodate a new station, it would have been applied for in the last major change window. In fact, I haven't checked...this could actually have happened. Every bottom-feeder and scavenger in the business, as well as a good many very reputable broadcasters, searched high and low for openings which would accomodate new stations. In fact, some of the applications were just flat irresponsible.

Even if this WERE possible technically, and it's NOT, why on earth would you do that?? I think there's probably a fortune to be made in Fort Payne. You just have to understand the opportunity presented in small-market broadcasting. Trust me when I say I make more money with less stress in smaller markets than you ever would with a station in Queens.
 
I spoke to Robert the other night

He's a man with very good intentions just no knowledge.....
 
Why? Ft Payne is a really Nice town in Alabama
I used to live there... thats the hometown Of the band ALABAMA
If I had the money I would have bought WFPA..
Neal


> Will it be possible for me to move this AM Station from
> Ft.Wayne,Alabama to Queens,New York.
> The Station is WFPA 1400 Khz. @ 1kw. If it is possible what
> will be required?
>
 
> Will it be possible for me to move this AM Station from
> Ft.Wayne,Alabama to Queens,New York.
> The Station is WFPA 1400 Khz. @ 1kw. If it is possible what
> will be required?
>
Well actually, you could possibly MOVE it, BUT...
you could not legally turn it on.
 
> > > Will it be possible for me to move this AM Station from
> > > Ft.Wayne,Alabama to Queens,New York.
> > > The Station is WFPA 1400 Khz. @ 1kw. If it is possible
> > what
> > > will be required?
> > >
> >
> > April fools was April 1st.
> >
> I don't believe Queens qualifies as a city of license.
> Isn't it also a little close to 1380?
>
Isn't it KYW that has operated in not only Philadelphia but also Chicago and Cleveland?
 
> Even though his frequency would remain the same, the fact
> that he wants
> to change location of city of license to over 1000 miles
> away would
> put the change under a MAJOR license change which would
> require the
> auction procedure because the station literally becomes a
> new facility.
> There are a lot more things involved as well. This just will
> not be
> allowed to happen.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. (It's also very lucrative for the consultants who come in to help fix things, so I'm not complaining...)

ANY change of city of license is a major change, whether it's to the next town over or across the country. A change of frequency greater than +/- 30 kHz is a major change.

However, the station wouldn't become a new facility, "literally" or otherwise, in the eyes of the FCC. Nor would it automatically go to auction.

What triggers an auction proceeding during an FCC AM major change window (the last one of which was in early 2004) is an application becoming part of a "mutually exclusive," or "MX" group. This means exactly what it sounds like: the application, while technically grantable, would conflict with one or more other applications that have been filed during the same window. In some cases, these conflicts can stretch across many hundreds of miles. There were applications filed in the last window for stations in Las Vegas that ended up as part of huge (150+ applicants) MX groups that extended all the way to Texas.

The FCC allows applicants who become part of MX groups limited opportunities to settle disputes among themselves, amending or withdrawing their applications to remove or reduce the conflicts. Only if the parties to an MX group are unable to resolve it through the settlement procedure will the matter then go to auction.

That said: as other posters have noted, any attempt to move the 1400 from Fort Payne to New York would be tossed out immediately as technically ungrantable, with overlapping interference to a whole slew of stations including WSTC in Connecticut, WEOK in Poughkeepsie, WHTG in New Jersey, WKDM New York, WNSW Newark, etc. etc. etc.

In general, when you see a license being moved long distances, it's for only one reason: since the FCC no longer grants new class D (daytime-only) licenses, the only way to put a "new" class D signal on the air, if you find a big market where one will fit, is to take an existing class D license in a small town and relocate it. (There are also isolated instances where a licensee will move a fulltime signal simply to get it out of the way of an upgrade to another station, as has happened around Chicago.)

The bottom line: in pretty much any market of any size that you can name, if there's a spot on the dial for a fulltime signal, it's already in use. If you want to be on the air, you pay the price for an existing license, and since they're not making any new ones, those prices just keep going up.<P ID="signature">______________
Tower Site Calendar 2006 ON SALE! - <a target="_blank" href=http://www.fybush.com/nerw.html#calendar>www.fybush.com</a></P>
 
> Isn't it KYW that has operated in not only Philadelphia but
> also Chicago and Cleveland?

Sorta. The KYW license, one of the very earliest licenses in radio, began in Chicago in 1921 and was moved to Philadelphia by Westinghouse in the early thirties.

The KYW calls then moved to Cleveland in 1956, in what the Westinghouse PR machine tried to portray as a move of the entire station (at least some of the Philly KYW staff moved to Cleveland as well) - but from an historical perspective, what really happened was just a station sale. What was KYW Philadelphia was sold to NBC and became WRCV, while what had been NBC's WTAM Cleveland was sold to Westinghouse and took the KYW calls. When the deal was unraveled in 1965, the KYW calls returned to Philadelphia with the Westinghouse ownership, and they remain there today. <P ID="signature">______________
Tower Site Calendar 2006 ON SALE! - <a target="_blank" href=http://www.fybush.com/nerw.html#calendar>www.fybush.com</a></P>
 
> > Isn't it KYW that has operated in not only Philadelphia
> but
> > also Chicago and Cleveland?
>
> Sorta. The KYW license, one of the very earliest licenses in
> radio, began in Chicago in 1921 and was moved to
> Philadelphia by Westinghouse in the early thirties.
>
> The KYW calls then moved to Cleveland in 1956, in what the
> Westinghouse PR machine tried to portray as a move of the
> entire station (at least some of the Philly KYW staff moved
> to Cleveland as well) - but from an historical perspective,
> what really happened was just a station sale. What was KYW
> Philadelphia was sold to NBC and became WRCV, while what had
> been NBC's WTAM Cleveland was sold to Westinghouse and took
> the KYW calls. When the deal was unraveled in 1965, the KYW
> calls returned to Philadelphia with the Westinghouse
> ownership, and they remain there today.
>
Thanks!
 
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