Can L.A. Support a true dance station

[codedude2]

Would a true dance station like Groove 103.1 or something similar to XM's BPM work in Los Angeles? Movin' 93.9 is dead in the water as well as a mess. Indie's number are tanking fast. I wish someone would put a dance station back on the air in Los Angeles and do it RIGHT this time! KDL was a total joke -- not daring enough with the music and lacked mixshows. Groove Radio 103.1 was too hip and still would be (even though I LOVED it). Groove 103.1 had a good formula going, but in this day and age the resources the owner put into the format would never happen - too expensive.

 

[Big E]

Movin never came close to being a dance station. And as soon as Ricci Filiar got in, it was for sure going the oldies route. Groove never had a signal, so therefore a life. The only thing I can think of that came close to a dance station with numbers (and by this I mean anything over a 1.5) was B-100 (KIBB), but it died with in the year. I dont know if there will ever be a true Dance station here in LA. I think theres just not enough listners to justify it.

 

[withthedog]

why not? Its not like anything else on some of these stations are setting the area on fire. Indie 103.1 with its 0.3? Movin with its 0.8? I Do remember Groove getting better numbers than Indie and equal to better numbers than Movin 939 (and they have a way better signal). Even B100 did better than Movin at the time. It was quasi-dance/oldies/R&B so not really counts. These days its seems like they are satsified with what would be considered low ratings ten years ago. Cause they got no ideas. But its out theres. Its Dance CHR.

Its kinda funny how the KDL, as bad as it was... did much better than Indie. So a dance station could work on 103.1 again or 93.9.

If LA can support Star 987,V100,Indie and Movin, the way they are, it sure can support a dance station.

 

[Big E]

Even B100 did better than Movin at the time. It was quasi-dance/oldies/R&B so not really counts.

Did you mean B-100 played Oldies or Movin? I know for a fact B-100 didnt play any oldies, i worked there. Maybe your thinking of Mega 100?

 

[withthedog]

Even B100 did better than Movin at the time. It was quasi-dance/oldies/R&B so not really counts.

Did you mean B-100 played Oldies or Movin? I know for a fact B-100 didnt play any oldies, i worked there. Maybe your thinking of Mega 100?

Oldies in terms of older dance, fewer currents. B100 tried to be like KTU but if I remember, way less dance currents than even KTU at the time. Something was off about that station. But looking back, it sure be hella lot better than what we have now.

 

[vonrollskyway1]

Even B100 did better than Movin at the time. It was quasi-dance/oldies/R&B so not really counts.

Did you mean B-100 played Oldies or Movin? I know for a fact B-100 didnt play any oldies, i worked there. Maybe your thinking of Mega 100?

Oldies in terms of older dance, fewer currents. B100 tried to be like KTU but if I remember, way less dance currents than even KTU at the time. Something was off about that station. But looking back, it sure be hella lot better than what we have now.

mars fm is the answer.

 

[BRH]

I also think dance would be a good option for a smaller signal in LA. Dance seems to be heating back up and gaining some attention lately and I think it could certainly garner a niche audience in LA. I think 103.1 would be good choice for dance again. However, it would be best to keep it safe and pretty mainstream though and do a station like "Energy 92.7" San Francisco or the new "Pulse 87" New York. I think it would certainly pull numbers a bit better than the current format.

I admit, I love the dance format, and would love to see it spread, but I realize it isn't going to be a huge mainstream format and work everywhere. However there are certain large markets in the U.S. that I believe would definitely support dance formats on smaller signals. (Namely, San Francisco, New York, LA, Chicago, and Miami).

 

[withthedog]

I think it would certainly pull numbers a bit better than the current format.

Thats a given. With the numbers Indie is getting. I don't see how this station last. Nobody is listening to it.


And we all know the stations history of formats at least doing twice/three times better than the current format. What gives with this company and their 103.1? Wake UP

 

[Big E]

One of my buddies reminded me that the biggest dance station LA has had was Power 106 in the mid to late 80's. It pulled music from KIIS, KROQ, and even KJLH, along with the CHA CHA and the Freestyle (an almost exclusive LA sound). Music plus great air talent (Mucho Morales, The Boomer, Charlie Huero, Frank Lozano, Bill Alexander, and many more), made Power the frontrunner for many years. They must have doing something different back then, because the PD's of today cant seem to get the formula right anymore. It seems all dance stations since the golden Power days, get great hype in the beginning, and then just fade out into history, the latest being Movin. Although it (Movin) started like a dance station, now has turned into an oldies station.

mars fm is the answer.

Was Mars FM really a dance station?

 

[leonardo10]

I can't recall a successful "dance station" since the begining's of the original Power 106 back in 1986...wow, 22 years ago already! Club music seemed pretty popular at that time. Dance, House, freestyle, etc. Would a dance format fly today or is the audience not there for it anymore and are into to other genre's now?

 

[henry]

I believe it can, with the owner/management understanding from day one that it'll probably never break a 1.5-share. For that very reason, a dance station will probably never make it up on Mt. Wilson, but could survive well on a smaller signal.

In both Groove and KDL's case, I'd argue they were actually too successful for their own good.

Groove was pulling low-1's, which isn't gonna make the owner multi-millions, but it is able to pay it's employees decently and generate a modest return for the owners. The trouble is it stole that share from KIIS, which caused Clear Channel to lose about the same amount. They figured it'd be easier to LMA/buy them up and throw a simulcast on. When they tried to expand their holdings during the radio-consolidation-over-speculation-gold-rush of the late 90s, they had to spin off 103.1 to somebody else.

Fast forward about five years: Chicago traded its dance station for one in L.A. When Big City went under they sold both 92.7 in Chicago and 107.1 in Los Angeles to Hispanic broadcasters. The one in Chicago flipped it to a Spanish-AC, as opposed to Entravision in LA who moved Super Estrella off 103.1 to start up a dance station. KDL didn't pull huge numbers (but nothing on 103.1 ever has, nor will). But once it got into the 1-share range, Mr. McLaughlin got a bit scared because KDL was slowing becoming a noticible contender for KIIS' audience, even though it was only a small fraction of its size. So, Clear Channel made an advertising agreement, under the stipulation that KDL change formats to the (cough, non-competitive, cough cough) format it has now. Entravision couldn't pass up a chance to make some real money in their spot sets.

My personal prediction is that Citadel, Clear Channel, and a few other operators are going to start cracking apart under financial pressure and will begin to sell some stations - creating a minor form of deconsolidation - but mostly leaving groups intact. This may open up a window for someone to program a dance format again in L.A. We'll see how long it lasts before Clear Channel puts a stop to it a third time.

 

[vonrollskyway1]

Mucho Morales, The Boomer, Charlie Huero, Frank Lozano, Bill Alexander, and many more), made Power the frontrunner for many years. love that quote!i have tons of old power 106 tapes from the 80s!great times in radio!miss there energy and fun the station had then.the gingles heck there station id.love it!!!

 

[lalumia]

Dance seems to be heating back up and gaining some attention lately and I think it could certainly garner a niche audience in
where exactly is this happening?

 

[Mid West Clubber]

Well Mucho's Gracious Jimi, I see you made it over here..... Anyway, here is how I see it. KDL and Groove both did better than what INDIE is doing now, so why not put Dance on 103.1, or maybe even 93.9...(HA... Fat Chance of that happening)... Anyway, Power 106 could probably get away with adding back a few Dance records like Power 96 Miami, and to a point B-96 in Chicago.

As far as a 24 hour format, I think the perfect formula would be like Chicago's Energy 927&5, but with a few Freestyle and 80s golds from the old Power, and a little bit of a Hispanic Curve couldnt hurt. KDL was too conservative with a shallow playlist for L.A, and we all agree that the original groove radio was too underground for the time, and even today, perhaps even more so today,,,, I never got to hear THE GROOVE 103.1 after they fired Egil and mainstreamed it so I cant comment, I never heard Mars FM either, though from what ive read and been told it was more of a Modern Rocker.

Anyway, back to Power 106, Last time I checked Kiss was beating them in their own target demo, so what do they have to lose by adding/testing a Dance track or two. I think Power should go back to calling themselves LA's Party Station and not pigeon hole themselves as a Hip Hop station, they have the Legendary KDAY for Urban now which does good for their duel weak signal's they have, plus they have that Latino 96.3 for the Latin Hip Hop, so yeah its time for Power to explore its historic Roots It would be better to have a station in LA that supports one or two Dance songs in their playlist at a time, than have no Dance at all. Also, a station with a signal + ratings + a little bit of Dance, is better than a pure dance station with no signal getting 0.0 every book.

Kiss could get away with adding some Dance as well, but we all know that wont happen unless another station in town is playing dance and competing with them, I remember a time I think around 2002 when Kiss started playing more Dance to compete against KDL, and Im pretty sure Kiss played some Dance back when Power and Groove Radio did.

Also, one more thing and I cant stress this enough,,,, While I like Dance music as well as Rhythmic and Mainstream music, I dont personally care for stations that position themselves as Pure Dance, that tells the average listener that Dance is all you play and also pigeon holes you to where you cant play a popular Hip Hop or Rock track if the need comes, see where im getting at here...

 

[vonrollskyway1]

thats the way i feel as well.take power 106 back to its roots.bring back the boomer as a sunday night back in the days.i can hear it now!72,000 watts of music power(less talk)KPWR LOS ANGELES!!!!!!!!!Power 106!

 

[BRH]

Also, one more thing and I cant stress this enough,,,, While I like Dance music as well as Rhythmic and Mainstream music, I dont personally care for stations that position themselves as Pure Dance, that tells the average listener that Dance is all you play and also pigeon holes you to where you cant play a popular Hip Hop or Rock track if the need comes, see where im getting at here...

I would have to definitely disagree with you on that one (at least as far as my own personal tastes go). I actually prefer the stations that really identify with dance music and the culture and make it very well known that that is what they do. That's why I really love KNGY "Energy 92.7" San Francisco and really prefer them over stations like "Pulse 87" New York, or "Party 105" Long Island. I like the fact that Energy is really proud to be "pure dance" and they promote dance music. Where as, it seems like Pulse 87 and Party 105 play a lot of dance music but try to position themselves more as "pop" stations and almost go out of there way to avoid the "dance" label. It's almost like they are ashamed that they play dance.

I guess I can understand it a bit. If you position as "pure dance" and really get into the dance culture, a lot of people, even though it isn't really the case, will view it as a gay station. And even though there is a huge gay population in NYC, really the main targets for Pulse 87 are Italians and Hispanics. And even though it shouldn't be an issue, it still is and if it was positioned as pure dance, it would turn off some of those groups. (which as I said is kind of sad in this day, but I'm guessing that's why J. Salkowitz has always stayed away from the "pure dance" image with his stations (Pulse 87 now and Hot 103/97 back in their dance days).

Anyway, I'm getting off topic here on the LA board I guess, but as far as my own personal preference, I really prefer the full-on dance format with no apologies for being pure dance (the way Energy 92.7 does it).

 

[davideduardo]

Anyway, back to Power 106, Last time I checked Kiss was beating them in their own target demo, so what do they have to lose by adding/testing a Dance track or two.

Power is #1 in 18-34, ahead of KIIS.

I think Power should go back to calling themselves LA's Party Station and not pigeon hole themselves as a Hip Hop station,

Why would a #1 station go back to something that quit working for them a decade or more ago? The current 18-34 listener has no idea what "the party station" is or was... they were not old enough to remember.

they have the Legendary KDAY for Urban now which does good for their duel weak signal's they have,

It does not do well. There are many rumors of the format not lasting past early summer at best. One of the "dual" signals is not even in this market, in fact, and contributes nothing.

plus they have that Latino 96.3 for the Latin Hip Hop,

Latino plays reggaetón, not Latin Hip Hop. It's a totally different audience.

so yeah its time for Power to explore its historic Roots

A 12-34 station's roots go back maybe 5 to 8 years. And Power changed to its current music mix to stay up with the times. There is certainly not enough interest in dance to give Power the 7.6 18-34 they have now.

One thing is to suggest dance as an alternative for a station like KMVN that has low, low ratings. But for the market leader in 18-34 the idea is absurd.

 

[CHRles]

David, I too was under the impression that KIIS was beating Power 106 in its target demo. That's what I had read from someone over at KIIS in either a recent article or forum.

 

[hotpatrick2004]

David the party station just blew up into indie in december of 2003 so everyone would remember it unless you are talking about something different but that is what kdl 103.1 the party station branded themselves as.The party station.In your opinion why does entravision keep indie???

 

[Mid West Clubber]

Patrick....Hey whats up with you man,,,, Hit me up on Myspace sometime soon. Anyway, the Party station we are reffering to was used by Power 106 as late as 1997. And Mr. Eduardo, I respect your posts and I know you know a hell of a lot more about LA radio than I do. But I happen to be in that target demo, a 27 year old male not even living in or near LA, and I remember when Power was LAs party station like it was yesterday.. Anyway, I read the same thing about Kiss beating out Power, thats why I suggested they experiment a little.

But something else David..(Who I Highly Respect)..... More and More rhythmic stations are dropping the Hip hop and R&B slogan, and are going back to positioning themselves more CHRish...... Listen to Vibe 95.7 in Kansas City, or any of the cumulous Rhythmics and they are using Party Station, and Hit Music station alot more these days, plus using mostly White DJs. This wasnt so back in 2004-2005. Im not saying a station like that would work in LA, an LA rhythmic station has to sound kinda Street, and have some Hispanic Jocks and lots of them. Power always sounded Street and Hip, even when they played Dance.