Can Oldies come back for the New Year ?

[xmradiopro]

I'm wondering if any of the radio stations in New York City that do well below then expected in the ratings would they elect to take a chance in the gap that's missing an Oldies format ? I thought of a few stations that could flip to Oldies 620 AM,
WPLJ, and WQCD and of course WCBS-FM.

 

[fred flintstone]

No!

Ratings?
Can't pay bills with ratings.

National advertisers (and their agencies) won't buy Oldies radio.
In a market like New York, local advertisers have agencies, too. They won't buy Oldies radio.
Sales pays the bills.

Now before somebody says advertisers don't want older listeners, let me say, "that's a lie."
Some do; some don't.
For those that do, there are better ways to reach 50+ demos than radio and better formats than Oldies.
Even those that do don't buy Oldies.

Oldies is dead.
Let it go.
Get XM or Sirius.
Enjoy life again.

 

[DougR]

No!

Ratings?
Can't pay bills with ratings.

National advertisers (and their agencies) won't buy Oldies radio.
In a market like New York, local advertisers have agencies, too. They won't buy Oldies radio.
Sales pays the bills.

Now before somebody says advertisers don't want older listeners, let me say, "that's a lie."
Some do; some don't.
For those that do, there are better ways to reach 50+ demos than radio and better formats than Oldies.
Even those that do don't buy Oldies.

Oldies is dead.
Let it go.
Get XM or Sirius.
Enjoy life again.

Bravo! That is about the best that I have heard it said.

Can you do the same the next time someone wants a station to flip to country too?

 

[radiolover78]

No. If a station hasn't flipped by now, then the chances of a station flipping to Oldies is slim to nothing.

Fred explained it the best.

 

[RadioMan203]

Hey, I like Oldies like the next fan, but unless radio can sell it it's ain't coming back to NYC anytime soon.

The demo's too old and the people at the top see the 18 - 34 cash cow ready to be plucked. We as listeners have to just face the fact that Oldies will now be one of those specialty formats best left to satellite or internet outlets.

 

[fred flintstone]

Thanks.

Other things that won't come back for the New Year:

Afternoon newspapers
The Automat
B. Altman's
Brad Crandall on WNBC
Broadway Plays
New and original Broadway musicals emphasizing story and music over special effects with songs people sing on their way out of the theater.
The Dodgers
The Elevated
Elevator operators
The Herald Tribune
Live TV from New York (outside of Saturday Night)
Penn Station
Radio dramas and comedies
Trolleys
Usable bathrooms in the Subway.
WMCA Good Guys
WNBC, the NBC Radio Network and Monitor
Imus and Howard on one radio station
WNEW, the Make Believe Ballroom, the Milkman's Matinee, Rayburn/Klavin and Finch

 

[rockyraccoon]

I don't know anything about the market in New York. I'm from Knoxville, Tennessee which is a very small radio market compared to New York. Heck, here in Tennessee, if it's not Country then it don't get any ratings at all. This is the state where if it has fur and 4 legs then people will shoot it and eat it. But seriously back to radio. Sure the Oldies format draws older listeners. But this is where ALL the stations go wrong. They market the whole format towards the older listeners. What they don't realize is that this music is from probably the greatest time period in rock n roll history and the music has the power to appeal to any age group. Take The Beatles for instance. Every time something from The Beatles comes out - even 36 years after they broke up - it's immediately a top seller. Young and old alike enjoy the music. If a station would just wake up and do the format the right way, and present the music in a fresh way, they could draw in younger listeners. Oldies is a type of music that will never loose it's appeal to the public - why do you think advertisers keep recycling old songs for new products. The problem is that the broadcast companies just don't know how to do the format right. Here in Knoxville we had an oldies station in the top 5 each ratings period. It had a huge following with teenagers all the way to 60 year olds. They flipped to Jack last year and now the station doesn't even get within the top 15. Of course again, New York is different - and a little more civilized!

 

[Tibbs4]

RR --- I am not sure, even as a fellow Tennessean, that I get any of your logic. I think a large portion of 16-25 year olds would not listen to oldies no matter where you program the format. Why would they? First, the age group has very little connection to radio anyway, because the preferred music genres are not found there, they prefer instant gratification and can download, program and personalize
their own music. Radio itself has decided the key demo is 25+. Many under 20 don't know three, if any, Beatles songs. For the life of
me, I cannot see how you can get a bunch of hip under 30's to listen to a "hip" for that age group Oldies station. Put a channel on
Sirius with no jocks and play the music to everybody? Yes. That's the only way today. The few Oldies stations can't get buys because
the demo is older than agencies fool with, right or wrong. BUT, if you look at the demo, which few do, the "older" population doesn't
want lighter music than Oldies, they actually prefer more classic rock as each new year rolls in. The Beatles are always an exception --
they can be just fine on Oldies, Classic Hits, or Classic Rock. Oldies has gotten to old. Classic Rock hasn't. Remember the 50's was
a long time ago to a 25 year old. I could go on about that to explain why Classic Rock still works better from more continual airplay,etc.

As for Oldies in K-town being in the Top 5, especially 12, no. Even in 25-54. Signals were some of the problem. Jack's in the
Top 15, there are barely 15 signals. Jack is a problem, though. To many CR, VH stations. Country is huge there and has one of the highest
one station listenerships in America. But, the market is pretty decent and conventional for Classic Rock, AC and
even CHR. They added together do just fine and exceed Country.

New York (esp. the City) rocks and is different. I miss it. The energy can't be duplicated in the US. Knoxville is okay, Nashville,
is bustling and rightfully a pretty hip, booming place---where country may be king, but mainly only for the tourists and for export, lots
of great alt music's here. Memphis is fun for obviously jazz and blues. You ought to check them both out.

In all due respect, you want to be more civilized, know more about the radio market you live in and layoff the stereotypical TN comments.
Even in jest, they make you sound less than enlightened. The good far outweights the bad in TN.


And, I vote NO on Oldies return to NYC. All the research I read long before and after WCBS's decision merits a format change.
Jack was just launched wrong and will probably never recover. Hmm! Interestingly enough, no one thought New Yorkers would be as sentimental
about the concept of WCBS as an entity and more importantly the people on air that were taken away. Talk about stereotypes, or
misconceptions, NYC would have had a lot more heart for a re-tooled WCBS with a slightly altered VH format using the legendary staff and call letters,
right?

 

[Joey1986]

I actually agree with Fred Flintstone for a change. There likely would've been another oldies station in NYC by now. The format is, at least for the most part, six feet under, pushing up the daisies, and other slang phrases for being dead. I'm skeptical that NYC will ever have an oldies station again. In fact, it's pretty much a safe bet that it won't.

 

[fred flintstone]

Our friends to Tennessee still want to think this is about programming and ratings.
Please repeat after me: It's about money.

That said, markets like Chattanooga are different from New York.
In small and medium markets, radio stations are supported mostly by local sales from retail advertisers.
Local station sales reps can sell Oldies to local business people and merchants.
No ad agencies are involved.
Local clients buy based on (1) Their relationship with the sales rep, the manager/owner and the station; (2) What they like and listen to themselves and what they think their friends and customers listen to. A lot of local business owners are in the target demo for Oldies.

According to Arbitron, the biggest shares in the 55+ demos go to:
Talk/News-Talk
AC
Country
Urban or Hispanic formats
Religion

In New York 2006, if you want to reach guys who listened to Musicradio 77 in 1966, buy Talkradio 77 (for guys) and LiteFM (for chicks).

What makes Talk radio the more potent sales vehicle that AM Top 40 once was? The most obvious thing the two have in common: Personalities.

 

[briancraig]

Lay off the negative Tennessee stereotypes.

Radio is mainly music and Tennessee has contributed more to popular music than any other state. Country, soul, blues, gospel, bluegrass, rock and roll and even alternative pop all come from Tennessee.

R & B, country, and religious radio for the most part originated in Tennessee.

 

[OldGringo]

According to Arbitron, the biggest shares in the 55+ demos go to:
Talk/News-Talk
AC
Country
Urban or Hispanic formats
Religion

Except in Miami and NY, there are very few listeners to Spanish langauge formats in the 55+ demos. This is because the average age of the Hispanic community in the US is so low (over 10 years younger than non-Hispanic whites) and there are relatively few Hispanics to even listen.

Miami is the real exception, as the Hispanic population is much older than the rest o fth emarket, so we have stations with average ages of 70 there.

 

[radiolover78]

According to Arbitron, the biggest shares in the 55+ demos go to:
Talk/News-Talk
AC
Country
Urban or Hispanic formats
Religion

Except in Miami and NY, there are very few listeners to Spanish langauge formats in the 55+ demos. This is because the average age of the Hispanic community in the US is so low (over 10 years younger than non-Hispanic whites) and there are relatively few Hispanics to even listen.

Miami is the real exception, as the Hispanic population is much older than the rest o fth emarket, so we have stations with average ages of 70 there.

Also, a lot of Hispanics simply listen to other formats. Just because I'm Irish doesn't mean I listen to Irish music.

Good points David.

 

[OldGringo]

According to Arbitron, the biggest shares in the 55+ demos go to:
Talk/News-Talk
AC
Country
Urban or Hispanic formats
Religion

Except in Miami and NY, there are very few listeners to Spanish langauge formats in the 55+ demos. This is because the average age of the Hispanic community in the US is so low (over 10 years younger than non-Hispanic whites) and there are relatively few Hispanics to even listen.

Miami is the real exception, as the Hispanic population is much older than the rest o fth emarket, so we have stations with average ages of 70 there.

Also, a lot of Hispanics simply listen to other formats. Just because I'm Irish doesn't mean I listen to Irish music.

Good points David.

In most US markets, the overwhelming majority of Hispanics cume Spanish radio. Only in highly assimilated later-generation dominnat places like San Antonio, Albuquerque, NY is there a lot of English listening. First generation Hispanics, no matter how well they may learn English, seldom use English radio (unless they grew up listening to American pop in the country of birth) but the second generation often listens to both. By the third generation, there is generally no listening to Spanish radio or it is extremely light.

 

[OldGringo]

Lay off the negative Tennessee stereotypes.

Radio is mainly music and Tennessee has contributed more to popular music than any other state. Country, soul, blues, gospel, bluegrass, rock and roll and even alternative pop all come from Tennessee.

R & B, country, and religious radio for the most part originated in Tennessee.

I would take exception to the statement about religious radio. Long before there were religious stations in Tennessee and long before WDIA even had a gospel show, the Mexican "border blasters" were preaching and selling mail order blessings and autographed pictures of Jesus and resurrection plants and the prayer table cloth. This goes back to the 30's, in fact, when in the US the only ting religious on the radio was generally a sedate church service or two on Sunday morning.

 

[fred flintstone]

What "negative Tennessee stereotypes" are you talking about? Two guys from Tennessee posted. And in many markets, Country stations dominate the Arbitron numbers. And in some markets, Urban or Hispanic stations are strong.

I posted nationally about Arbitron AQH shares in the 50+ demos; about the proportion of in the listeners for different formats in the context of pointing out that not that many people who have aged out of the so-called "money demos" are listening to oldies.

Also, a lot of Hispanics simply listen to other formats. Just because I'm Irish doesn't mean I listen to Irish music.

That is really an illogical statement and has nothing to do with the topic. Clear proof that people in radio should spend more time in class; less time playing radio at some student station.

 

[disney fanatic]

No!

Ratings?
Can't pay bills with ratings.

National advertisers (and their agencies) won't buy Oldies radio.
In a market like New York, local advertisers have agencies, too. They won't buy Oldies radio.
Sales pays the bills.

Now before somebody says advertisers don't want older listeners, let me say, "that's a lie."
Some do; some don't.
For those that do, there are better ways to reach 50+ demos than radio and better formats than Oldies.
Even those that do don't buy Oldies.

Oldies is dead.
Let it go.
Get XM or Sirius.
Enjoy life again.

You're right, Fred. Oldies is dead in New York City. Now, we got WBPM "Cool 92.9" in Kingston, NY. That is what you're stuck with playing oldies. I have airchecks from WBPM up in Hudson Valley, because fans of the old WCBS-FM doesn't get an oldies station in New York City anymore. I posted every once in awhile on different message board that I requested for "Cool 92.9" airchecks according to these links. Nobody responded or some responded including my follow-up aircheck with more oldies due to the pre-emption of "WABC's Saturday Night Oldies Show" with Mark Simone with Army Football. I posted airchecks like the "Doo-Wop Cruise" with Rick McCaffery where he is on every Friday night still playing doo-wop music from the 50's and early 60's, because the fans who missed the "Doo-Wop Shop" that has been gone for 4 years on Sunday nights when Don K Reed was there. I have plenty of "Doo-Wop Cruise" shows on Rick McCaffery's show on WBPM. The station in Kingston is 90 miles away from New York City. That's why New York City doesn't get an oldies station anymore. I have plenty of airchecks somewhere in my collection. I will post more WBPM airchecks during the week. New York City has no oldies station, but the Hudson Valley station like "Cool 92.9" is stuck with playing oldies. Thanks to my iPod for using my oldies playlists. I can listen to WCBS-FM New York Top 1001 Songs of the Century on my iPod.

 

[neo11]

Huh?

 

[fred flintstone]

You're right, Fred. Oldies is dead in New York City. Now, we got WBPM "Cool 92.9" in Kingston, NY. That is what you're stuck with playing oldies. I have airchecks from WBPM up in Hudson Valley, because fans of the old WCBS-FM doesn't get an oldies station in New York City anymore. I posted every once in awhile on different message board that I requested for "Cool 92.9" airchecks according to these links. Nobody responded or some responded including my follow-up aircheck with more oldies due to the pre-emption of "WABC's Saturday Night Oldies Show" with Mark Simone with Army Football. I posted airchecks like the "Doo-Wop Cruise" with Rick McCaffery where he is on every Friday night still playing doo-wop music from the 50's and early 60's, because the fans who missed the "Doo-Wop Shop" that has been gone for 4 years on Sunday nights when Don K Reed was there. I have plenty of "Doo-Wop Cruise" shows on Rick McCaffery's show on WBPM. The station in Kingston is 90 miles away from New York City. That's why New York City doesn't get an oldies station anymore. I have plenty of airchecks somewhere in my collection. I will post more WBPM airchecks during the week. New York City has no oldies station, but the Hudson Valley station like "Cool 92.9" is stuck with playing oldies. Thanks to my iPod for using my oldies playlists. I can listen to WCBS-FM New York Top 1001 Songs of the Century on my iPod.

There are a few Oldies stations in markets adjoining New York and people in the 'burbs may get some of them.
590
740
850
950
1160
1220
1230
1250
1260
1360
1410
1420
1460
1500
1510
92.9
102.9
103.1

 

[AlvaJr]

Nope, we don't need Oldies on FM in NYC, so the only that I listen to is Saturday Night Oldies with Mark Simone on 77WABC 6-10pm.