Can The AM Band Be Saved?

[kenglish]

who nit-pick-to-death every suggestion that is made by people who still believe in our broadcast industry.

Wow...who woke up on the wrong side of the bed today?

OK, fine. Let's petition the FCC to fix the AM band.

Wasn't me that woke up on the wrong side of the bed ;D .

I think the original topic was to the effect that the NAB was looking for answers. Sounds like they want some viable suggestions, and then they can "petition the FCC" to make whatever changes to the law that are needed to accommodate these changes legally.

It's still up to us as broadcasters to fix things at our end, and if it takes helping the listeners we still have get better reception (like, telling them how to make their TV quit buzzing in their radios), why not give it a page on the website, a link to some antenna products, or a phone number where they can report power-line noise issues?

There are still lots of people who depend on AM, or who just prefer it (for whatever reasons). We don't have to brush them aside, either.

 

[kenglish]

........Add to that the fact that in most markets there may be only one or two AMs with good enough coverage to serve the whole market... none in some markets, in fact... and that AM is noisy and receivers are pretty crappy on the AM side... and that discontent you speak of is purely on the listener side.

Good points. I know of at least one local station here in town that regularly airs spots (PAID spots , no less) from C. Crane and others, advertising good-sounding AM radios. I saw a YouTube video recently, from a guy who found a couple of NOS (New, Old stock..still in the box) denon NAB Super Tuners. People were amazed at how good they sounded on AM stations.
I was amazed, myself, at how good a McKay-Dymek AM-5 sounded on many local stations...both music and sports/talk. How hard is it to steer a listener to a good product, if they want to listen to AM?

Anybody know what it would take to fully implement the NRSC standards in a station, or what it would take to add it to an existing receiver? Or, has the standard been superseded?

 

[Tom Wells]

In Indiana corn country, if a homeowner decides to grow their own sweet corn, they may recieve a visit from a representative of a huge corporation with various strong suggestions that they have no right to mind their own business OR grow their own corn.

Huh? ??? ??? ???

Since when does this happen? If I go down to my local garden shop and buy a package of sweet corn kernels (or other vegetable seeds, for that matter) and plant them, don't I automatically get "permission" from the "owner" of that particular hybrid to grow, harvest, and eat the results of my labor? We grew corn in our backyard in Indiana for several years. The Corn Police never showed up at our front door once (granted, that was 40+ years ago, but still...).

I've only heard of this second hand in Indiana, but a close friend DID have this happen in Illinois. I'll have to ask him about what year this was.
The large hybrid seed producers do NOT want cross-pollinization of corn to occur. It may depend on just how close you are to their
show plots, where detassling is a way of life and a livelihood in the months of June/July.
They don't trust homeowners/hobby farmers to detassle.

 

[davideduardo]

Anybody know what it would take to fully implement the NRSC standards in a station, or what it would take to add it to an existing receiver? Or, has the standard been superseded?

NRSC in essence puts a brick-wall filter at 10 kHz to prevent heterodyning in a closely packed band. It is the standard.

 

[Tom Wells]

Anybody know what it would take to fully implement the NRSC standards in a station, or what it would take to add it to an existing receiver? Or, has the standard been superseded?

NRSC in essence puts a brick-wall filter at 10 kHz to prevent heterodyning in a closely packed band. It is the standard.

Makes no difference at all unless the user's receiver is also 20-30 db down 8 khz from center response.
It is partial pickup of the CARRIER on the adjacent that gives the 10 khz whine.
Modulation products beyond 10 khz are liable to create the "upside-down" frequency response monkey chatter.
ONLY a constant (or relatively) signal 10 khz adjacent creates the 10 khz het.

Brickwall filters usually create nasty byproducts, which is why so much work went into proper IF transformer design.
It's also why I prefer 262.5 khz IFs. The response is still kind to audio, while giving sharper cutoff skirts than 455s.

Ceramic filters are "pretend" filters as much as a "Close-n-Play" was a pretend phonograph.

Chopping the audio at the station is foolishness.

 

[radiophiler]

I'm curious about how Mexico and/or Canada is handling the shift of AMs to FM.

It seems as though in the U.S., our FM spectrum is already too crowded on the coasts and around other major metropolitan areas to accomplish this.

Can David E or someone else shed more light, if nothing else, provide a link about this? Thanks.

 

[blackgold]

I've noticed listening to WBZ and WINS in Boston and New York, respectively, that they also list their FM HD3 frequencies. Like back in 2007, WBZ started airing their HD signal on WODS-FM HD3 before putting it on WBZ-FM HD3. And WINS mentioned their HD signal on WFNS-FM HD3 in the Big Apple. So, in a small way, the migration from AM to FM(albeit on HD radio) has already begun.

 

[kenglish]

Isn't there also some form of pre-emphasis curve included in the NRSC specs?

Kinda wondering, too...It seems like every HD Radio I've opened up is an almost identical Software-Defined Radio (SDR) module, it looks like. Can the NRSC-related functions be easily done with software? If the HD Radios are using them (SDR), they must be getting more widespread.

Could they also be designed to do noise-blanking, some sort of auto-notch "whistle filter", or even Synchronous-AM (even selective sidebands), automatically?

Not every $20 radio will do all this stuff, of course, but offering some better-quality receivers at a moderately higher price, to the folks who want better quality, might help.

 

[kenglish]

Another thought...
Why do the FCC OTARD rules specifically exclude outdoor antennas for "broadcast" services, while specifically calling out the other, competing services? An FM radio will certainly sound far better with an outdoor antenna than with the ribbon-lead one hanging behind the stereo cabinet. And, AM (though it might be best with a big loop or longwire) can always benefit from something outside, even if it's fairly small.

There's a point that COULD be handled at the FCC level.

 

[davideduardo]

Why do the FCC OTARD rules specifically exclude outdoor antennas for "broadcast" services, while specifically calling out the other, competing services? An FM radio will certainly sound far better with an outdoor antenna than with the ribbon-lead one hanging behind the stereo cabinet. And, AM (though it might be best with a big loop or longwire) can always benefit from something outside, even if it's fairly small.

There's a point that COULD be handled at the FCC level.

Generally, the ferrite rod antenna inside a conventional radio with an AM section is much better than any piece of wire short of something in the 50 foot long, 20 foot high type longwire with shielded leads and a good ground.

For decades, DX enthusiasts have preferred somewhat larger size (10" to 12") ferrite rods that can be turned for directionality; the point being that those little ferrite rods wrapped in wire and tuned with a little coil are really good AM antennas.

They fit in even the little transistor radios of the 60's and 70's... but they won't fit in phones and mp3 players. But users of portable devices are not going to want to plug a long piece of wire into their nanos.

 

[TheBigA]

There's a point that COULD be handled at the FCC level.

If someone there knew anything about that sort of thing.

 

[davideduardo]

Isn't there also some form of pre-emphasis curve included in the NRSC specs?

FM has pre-emphasis. The AM standard is basically a wall at 10 kHz to avoid heterodynes with adjacent channels.

Stations, according to preference and format, may do the equivalent of parametric equalization on any frequency band they want via settings on their audio processor. The more common practice is to roll the frequencies above 5 kHz off a bit... or a lot... because most radios handle stuff over 5 kHz pretty badly. The NRSC committee findings on the subject indicated that the average consumer radio did not handle anything over 6 kHz too well, and mentioned that anything over 7 kHz might as well not be transmitted.

Not every $20 radio will do all this stuff, of course, but offering some better-quality receivers at a moderately higher price, to the folks who want better quality, might help.

Nobody buys "radios" any more. They buy devices with radios, and no manufacturer is going to spend a penny more per unit to improve reception on a band that they perceive has so little interest that the improvement will do nothing for sales.

 

[johnbasalla]

Just a few months ago, I bought a radio... nothing but a radio... because I wanted an AM/FM radio.

 

[TheBigA]

Just a few months ago, I bought a radio... nothing but a radio... because I wanted an AM/FM radio.

Hoo-ray! I'll alert the media. Do you give interviews?

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Just a few months ago, I bought a radio... nothing but a radio... because I wanted an AM/FM radio.

I will also... as soon as I can find one that I would have in my house. Every time I look for one, all I find is Buck Rogers Tinker Toys meets Barbie Doll in style.

If it is true that ONLY "old farts" listen to AM radio, how come they don't display something I would allow in my house?

And how come they don't make one that works if you live beyond the city limits? (I learned this bit of humor[?] in Eastern Kentucky coal country a few years ago: "I live so far out in the country.... I have to walk back toward town to hunt."

 

[borderblaster]

Have to grab a Superradio or something that's more designed for distance (DX)listening.

 

[semoochie]

It's been awhile but I thought that when the FCC instituted the 10KHZ cutoff, it included a pre-emphasis circuit for standard radios, with the understanding that a de-emphasis circuit would be included in new better quality radios. I don't believe the receivers were ever developed.

 

[kenglish]

I see, this morning, where Utah is wanting to ban use of phones by teen drivers.
I hope their cars will still have plain old radios in them, so we don't lose them as listeners. ;D

 

[GeneSavage]

Actually, the NRSC curve is about a +10db boost starting flat at 1 Khz and running up to 9.6 Khz. I think you have to be down something like 40 db by 10Khz. So there's a minor boost in highs, the idea being that it would help make it sound a little brighter on typical, rolled-off radios.

As far as better quality radios: HA! Back in the 80s when AM stereo came out, I called around looking for one. I had sales people telling me an AM/FM stereo radio was AM stereo.

It took me months to find a store that had the GE Superradio III, and it was a K-Mart of all places, not a major electronics store, and they didn't realize they had it, and had to dig it out of the back of a shelf.

People are stunned when I send them the YouTube video of the AM stereo Japanese station; I'm not, because I heard a Carver TX-11a receiver once and swore if there were AM/FM simulcasts, I'd never go back to FM again. (Turns out that has more to do with the 75us pre-emphesis and hard limiting on FM, but that's another post...)

The receivers WERE there. The technology WAS out there. By the time it came along, people were already mostly using AM for sports, news, traffic and weather, and saw no need.

I tried to convert as many as possible, but it was an up-hill battle... made worse by a lack of quality contemporary music programming on the AM band to demonstrate its capabilities.

AND THAT WAS NEARLY THIRTY YEARS AGO.

Today? Fogedaboudit.

If I could wave a magic wand, I would have the FCC shut off digital, require 7.5 Khz frequency response & noise blanking in all radios, boost all AM stations under 50k to some higher power, start cracking down HARD on AM noise manufacturers, and mount a huge, expensive consumer education campaign. At the same time, I'd bring in AM station owners from around the country to discuss the technical improvements we were going to make to the listeners' experience, and encourage them to look again at musical programming holes in the market.

I don't see ANY of that happening. Even if it did, I think the AM owners would laugh me out of D.C.

I suppose if I could lobby the FCC for ONE thing, I'd push for the 7.5 Khz / noise blanking. That would do more to improve the listener experience than anything else.

If I had an AM stick... it would depend on where I was. If I was out in the middle of nowhere, I might be able to get away with AC / CHR / country if there were no local competing FMs and I had lots of community involvement.

In most cities above, oh, 25,000 residents, I think the only option is to find a secondary niche an FM won't or isn't filling.

The question I can't answer is whether a station targeted at a secondary group can generate enough income to pay the bills... although in the Tulsa, Oklahoma area (and many others I suspect) that's what's been happening.. in fact, right now we have FIVE Spanish-language AM stations on the air... and we'd have a sixth, save a dispute with a landlord. We have one, 6kw FM.

Years ago I heard an OKC station go EZ Listening / Beautiful Music. I thought it sounded awful, but I was young, the station was distant, and the processing could have been set "wrong."

Although it's an older target, I wonder if either Beautiful Music or Smooth Jazz could find a profitable home on AM, since they seem to be dying on the FM vine as the audience ages? This could be automated (pardon the pun) for a song, you'd only need maybe two employees and a sales staff, tops...

 

[MickeyD]

But if you can come up with some way to loosen the directional patterns that stations like WIND have, you might have a shot at keeping things alive.

Is that under the purview of the NAB Board of Directors? I doubt it. So having them meet on this subject is a waste.

Now say the FCC had such a meeting. (And pigs flew) But obviously the FCC doesn't care whether AM radio as we knew it comes back. The band is still the band, regardless of how it's used. So they still have jobs.

I a decade or so the AM band will probably another ham radio band.