Can We Stop Calling The 60s/70s/80s Format "Classic Hits"?

[Gregg]

There already is a format called "Classic Hits." It's a more hit-oriented Classic Rock format and it already exists in quite a few markets.

Now along comes the successor to the Oldies format... and this also has picked up the label "Classic Hits."

The two formats are quite far apart in how they sound, even if they might be chasing a similar demographic.

A Classic Hits station, like WROR Boston or KJR-FM Seattle, plays almost all white artists with a rock sound who were lucky enough to have hits on both the Rock chart and the Top 40 chart. So while some Classic Rock stations concentrate on harder-edged acts like Zeppelin and Ozzy, a Classic Hits staton is where you might likely hear The Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, Heart, Billy Joel, Elton John, etc. The station uses no jingles, the DJs rarely talk over the music and several songs play in a row with no DJ chatter.

The "other" Classic Hits stations are nearly the opposite. DJs talk up the intros, there are plenty of jingles, African-American artists make up a significant percentage of the acts and the Rock charts of the past are virtually ignored in chosing the music for these stations.

In Tampa WRBQ and WXGL both are in the top 10 and both are listed as Classic Hits. If you didn't know better, you'd wonder why two similar stations rate so high in Tampa. In fact WRBQ (Q105) used to be an Oldies station and WXGL is a little more pop sounding than a Classic Rock station.

Someone suggested that an Oldies station that has cut back on 50s and early 60s hits and added 80s titles (and wants NOT to be associated with the word Oldies) might call itself "Classic Top 40." And let's leave "Classic Hits" to the more pop-sounding classic rock stations.



Gregg
[email protected]

 

[davideduardo]

There already is a format called "Classic Hits." It's a more hit-oriented Classic Rock format and it already exists in quite a few markets.

Classic rock is one format, and classic hits is another. Arbitron considers each to be a separate format, and this is all about sales. Listeners don't pay much attention to format names anyway.

Now along comes the successor to the Oldies format... and this also has picked up the label "Classic Hits."

There was no format called "classic hits" before oldies stations migrated from 50's and 60's to a 70's based format with a tad on either side. Thaqt is why the new format incarnation is called classic hits.

The two formats are quite far apart in how they sound, even if they might be chasing a similar demographic.

Classic hits was never a term of the trade until the aforemetioned oldies migration began. Go look up WOGL at the SIP page of the Arbitron website: Classic hits.

A Classic Hits station, like WROR Boston or KJR-FM Seattle, plays almost all white artists with a rock sound who were lucky enough to have hits on both the Rock chart and the Top 40 chart... the "other" Classic Hits stations are nearly the opposite. DJs talk up the intros, there are plenty of jingles, African-American artists make up a significant percentage of the acts and the Rock charts of the past are virtually ignored in chosing the music for these stations.

Please note that Seattle and Boston have relatively small Black communities, while the markets with the more rhythmic Classic Hits stations are in more Black influenced markets. Just like VHR playlists range from very hip hop leaning to very "white" leaning, so do classic hits stations... mostly based on what the big CHR hits of the 70's were in that market and what tests in that market.

Someone suggested that an Oldies station that has cut back on 50s and early 60s hits and added 80s titles (and wants NOT to be associated with the word Oldies) might call itself "Classic Top 40." And let's leave "Classic Hits" to the more pop-sounding classic rock stations.

Classic hits is mostly 70's CHR hits with some 60's and maybe some 80's. Each is going to reflect its market in the exact era map and the songs themselves. But all are classic hits. Arbitron and the industry already made a format name call on this. It's not going to change.

 

[TheFonz]

There already is a format called "Classic Hits." It's a more hit-oriented Classic Rock format and it already exists in quite a few markets.

Now along comes the successor to the Oldies format... and this also has picked up the label "Classic Hits."

The two formats are quite far apart in how they sound, even if they might be chasing a similar demographic.

A Classic Hits station, like WROR Boston or KJR-FM Seattle, plays almost all white artists with a rock sound who were lucky enough to have hits on both the Rock chart and the Top 40 chart. So while some Classic Rock stations concentrate on harder-edged acts like Zeppelin and Ozzy, a Classic Hits staton is where you might likely hear The Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, Heart, Billy Joel, Elton John, etc. The station uses no jingles, the DJs rarely talk over the music and several songs play in a row with no DJ chatter.

The "other" Classic Hits stations are nearly the opposite. DJs talk up the intros, there are plenty of jingles, African-American artists make up a significant percentage of the acts and the Rock charts of the past are virtually ignored in chosing the music for these stations.

In Tampa WRBQ and WXGL both are in the top 10 and both are listed as Classic Hits. If you didn't know better, you'd wonder why two similar stations rate so high in Tampa. In fact WRBQ (Q105) used to be an Oldies station and WXGL is a little more pop sounding than a Classic Rock station.

Someone suggested that an Oldies station that has cut back on 50s and early 60s hits and added 80s titles (and wants NOT to be associated with the word Oldies) might call itself "Classic Top 40." And let's leave "Classic Hits" to the more pop-sounding classic rock stations.



Gregg
[email protected]

Classic Top 40 has a nice sound to it. The problem is......................it relates to "charts". Radio programmers go ballistic over that word.

 

[davideduardo]

Classic Top 40 has a nice sound to it. The problem is......................it relates to "charts". Radio programmers go ballistic over that word.

The format already has a name to it, and it is not going to change. Accepted by Arbitron, accepted by the trades, accepted by the industry. There's no real point to debating something that is a fait acomplit.

As to charts, stations make their own based on how people respond to songs today. Yesterday's charts are as useful as yesterday's newspaper... what was news then is not news today. It would be nice if all involved in these discussions realized that radio stations are not museums. We don't play songs that charted in 1971 because they charted then... we play them beccause, in 2008, people like to hear them and, thus, they are hit's TODAY...

 

[Oldbones]

A Classic Hits station, like WROR Boston or KJR-FM Seattle, plays almost all white artists with a rock sound who were lucky enough to have hits on both the Rock chart and the Top 40 chart. So while some Classic Rock stations concentrate on harder-edged acts like Zeppelin and Ozzy, a Classic Hits staton is where you might likely hear The Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, Heart, Billy Joel, Elton John, etc. The station uses no jingles, the DJs rarely talk over the music and several songs play in a row with no DJ chatter.

The "other" Classic Hits stations are nearly the opposite. DJs talk up the intros, there are plenty of jingles, African-American artists make up a significant percentage of the acts and the Rock charts of the past are virtually ignored in chosing the music for these stations.

Someone suggested that an Oldies station that has cut back on 50s and early 60s hits and added 80s titles (and wants NOT to be associated with the word Oldies) might call itself "Classic Top 40." And let's leave "Classic Hits" to the more pop-sounding classic rock stations.

While I agree that there are 2 fairly distinctive formats being called "Classic Hits", does anyone but us radio geeks really care? Obviously, if there is one of each in a given market, they both can't refer to themselves as classic hits on the air, but what's the big deal in the trades? A rock station can be a real head-banger or it can lean classic rock or anywhere in between and still be listed with Arbitron as an AOR. Likewise a contemporary hits station can lean rock, pop or rhythmic and still be designated as CHR. Listeners don't go by format descriptions...if they like what a station plays they'll listen, if they don't they won't.

Besides, "Classic Top 40" sounds really dumb.

 

[oldies76]

DavidEduardo Yesterday's charts are as useful as yesterday's newspaper... what was news then is not news today. It would be nice if all involved in these discussions realized that radio stations are not museums. We don't play songs that charted in 1971 because they charted then... we play them beccause, in 2008, people like to hear them and, thus, they are hit's TODAY...

Very well...understood, but don't discount the charts of the past either, they are very useful, especially in hobbyists and collectors..and by people possibly building collections of music to do their own gigs on radio or internet radio.

By the way..you're right..radio stations are not museums, but I'd have to say CBS 101.1's weekend programming kind of defies that, with all the extra hit songs heard, that most other stations would never play! You've got to give them credit for at least trying to break the monotony of today's oldies & classic hits radio.

 

[JustPastBuffalo]

Whoa! Gentlemen... and the esteemed DE. I came across this thread, thought I'd contribute and perhaps set the record straight. I was PD and did PM drive at WHTT-FM Buffalo, one of the first Classic Hits stations in America that flipped to CH in September of 1986 and garnered considerable success in all the prime demos.

As Fred Jacobs is generally credited with being the architect of the Classic Rock format, Gary Guthrie was instrumental in putting the original Classic Hits concept together in the mid 80s.

WHTT at the time was owned by Pyramid Broadcasting and consulted by Gary Gurthrie, who was based in Phoenix. His company was called Edinborough Rand and he consulted Classic Hits stations in several markets, including Boston, Atlanta and LA. Ironically, the WHTT Buffalo call letters came from a Boston CHR that abandoned them.

WKLH Milwaukee also was a very successful Classic Hits station at the time. For four or five straight books, Buffalo and Milwaukee vied for top honors as America's highest rated CH stations.

As a CH station, WHTT primarily played Pop hits with a measured dose of AOR Classics (Whole Lotta Love, Sweet Home Alabama and Heart Of Gold, for example) that crossed over and charted, with music from 64 to about 1980. Lots of Beatles and Stones, mixed with Motown, Memphis and Atlantic as well as copious amounts of British Invasion from the Kinks, Yardbirds, Dave Clark Five and power pop stuff like Beach Boys, America, Peter & Gordon and Bee Gees. An occasionaly slice of Elvis and Chuck Berry, but WHTT tended to stay away from songs that might be construed as Oldies, e.g., The Twist. The distinction being "Oldies" was a 55 Chevy, while "Classic Hits" was a 68 'Vette. For a brief time, we experimented with a limited number of in-format-artist currents, playing two cuts per daypart at the very most.

The on air jock approach at the time was uptempo, but not quite Top 40. It was very personality oriented in that we related to what was going on in the community. Still, we were music intensive. Talk-overs were limited.

WHTT performed extremely well in the CH format for about two years while the market was without a bonafide AOR or Classic Rock station. When Classic Rock returned to the market on 97 Rock, WHTT flipped to Oldies and became one of the longest running, highest rated Oldies stations in America (1989-200) under the Program Directorship of Tom Schuh. (Shortly after WHTT flipped to Oldies, I went to work for 97 Rock, where I did PM drive and Production.)

Years pass. These days I'm back at WHTT (doing middays and production) which has made the transition from Oldies, back through Classic Hits and is now Gold Based AC as Mix 104.1. As the Grateful Dead once sang, "what a long strange trip it's been..." -Truckin.' And yes, back in 86 we played "Truckin'" on WHTT.

FWIW, I've worked AOR, Classic Rock, AC and even Country, yet Classic Hits is my favorite format. It's being done a little bit differently these days, but I think it has its place. Radio certainly runs in cycles... yeah... kilo and Mega... no pun was intended, but I the initial thought almost begged for the pun-ish reference.

Best regards,

Jim Pastrick

 

[davideduardo]

FWIW, I've worked AOR, Classic Rock, AC and even Country, yet Classic Hits is my favorite format. It's being done a little bit differently these days, but I think it has its place. Radio certainly runs in cycles... yeah... kilo and Mega... no pun was intended, but I the initial thought almost begged for the pun-ish reference.

That's an interesting background on what appears to be a limited use of the term in the past. My only point, since I don't have a horse in this race, is that the term has been accepted broadly in the industry and, particularly, by Arbitron as the descriptor for the post-oldies format consisting of some variety of CHR songs from, mostly, the 70's.

More than anything, your explanation shows that names of formats are, at best, arbitrary.

 

[kturnerga]

The term "Classic Hits" for Sixties, Seventies and Eighties has my vote. I still wish that stations would loosen up on the playlists. If we feed "My Life" by Billy Joel and "Think of Me" by Todd Rundgren and not much else how are people going to get stations to play more material. Where are the rest of The Carpenters or Captain and Tennille? Where is "Chevy Van" by Sammy Johns? How do listeners tell Classic Hits stations they want more music, more variety? I know it's been discussed as to how playlists are determined but somehow someone gets the ball rolling on a certain song.

 

[firepoint525]

For some reason, "oldies" stations were loath to play anything after about 1975! ??? They would play music from any decade, as long as it was the '60s! ;D Their three favorite decades were the '60s, the '60s, and the '60s. Therein lay their problem. They didn't "age" along with the rest of us. I remember a caller to the (former) oldies station here in Nashville commenting on them adding the likes of Peter Frampton to their playlist. They needed to add more '70s, and in particular, late '70s to their playlist. But it wasn't long after that that they changed to a "classic hits" format anyway. I've never understood why 1975 must be such a dividing line between all that came before, and all that came after it! Why can't they play "oldies" and "classic hits"?

 

[gr8oldies]

I worked at two stations that imaged as Classic Hits in the late 80s. They both might include a touch of Motown, but were pretty rock leaning without being chainsaw. We also played currents.

 

[KOOL Listener Lauren]

There already is a format called "Classic Hits." It's a more hit-oriented Classic Rock format and it already exists in quite a few markets.

Now along comes the successor to the Oldies format... and this also has picked up the label "Classic Hits."

The two formats are quite far apart in how they sound, even if they might be chasing a similar demographic.

I agree with you!

Some oldies stations playing 60s and 70s are calling themselves "classic hits" now, or if not that, they're at least sounding a lot like one. I know some people say, "who cares what a station calls themselves except for the radio geeks", but what a station calls themselves does seem to make a difference. Maybe not right from the start, but more and more, the "classic hits" stuff comes along more frequently, which ultimately really sounds like "classic rock". At least, that's what THIS listener thinks...

 

[DXMeister]

I agree Lauren.

There was a station here in Northern New Jersey called Classic Hits 103.7 It was the hits oriented classic rock format the original poster described, Makes no sense oldies would transition to classic hits. As much as Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera started this youth oriented culture we have now. The term 'old' shouldn't be offensive, The original top-40 music got the term oldies because it was and compared to the American Idol wannabes, computerized music and crap er rap that's out there..is the greatest music of all time..Motown, Soul and Great Rock N' Roll.

 

[KOOL Listener Lauren]

I agree Lauren.

There was a station here in Northern New Jersey called Classic Hits 103.7 It was the hits oriented classic rock format the original poster described, Makes no sense oldies would transition to classic hits.

Funny you mention that. Reminds me of a recent aircheck cassette I received of Phoenix radio in 1997. I don't remember the station, because I was pretty young to really pay attention to radio then... But here in Phoenix we had 96.9 Classic Hits (or something along those lines). One of the station's commercials had the voice guy say "Classic Hits", and play a clip of a late 70s hit, and then say "not Classic Hits", play a clip of an oldies song, and a few more comparisons like that came after. The difference, to this day, is still evident... 11 years later.

the greatest music of all time..Motown, Soul and Great Rock N' Roll.

Amen!

 

[DXMeister]

In January 1997 WNNJ FM flipped to a Pop based Rock format focusing on 70's Pop rock. The station became known as "Classic Hits 103-7". Also except for the legal ID the airstaff no longer said the WNNJ FM call letters on the air. Musically Classic Hits 103-7 played rock oriented songs from 1964 to 1989. The focus was 70's rock hits. Mixed in were hard rock hits as well as pop hits from the 70's that were not too far out of the realm of rock. Also big 80's rock hits and some big hits from the late 1960s were also played. The station earned high ratings with this format.

This proves that Oldies and Classic Hits are not the same formats and shouldn't be called such.

Btw..Doo-wop, Motown, Soul and Great Rock 'N Roll sounds even better.

 

[davideduardo]

This proves that Oldies and Classic Hits are not the same formats and shouldn't be called such.

As JimPastrick pointed out, the earliest uses of Classic Hits had an entierely, and more rock oriented, meaning than the one Arbitron accepts today, which indicates CHR hits of the 70's and nearby years.

We all agree that neither form of classic hits is the same as oldies, which is 60's based Top 40 songs.

 

[kturnerga]

Firepoint I'll give the reason in one word; disco. I think the 1975 limit is too severe; just stop at summer 1977 and right before "Saturday Night Fever". Face it; many of us don't have good memories of the late Seventies (Jimmy Carter, inflation, farm crisis, energy crunch). Disco also died a rapid death. Anything other than disco in that time period was rather slow and like cornbread gruel. Believe me; I was there. The demographic for disco is lacking compared to that for everything from Bread to KC and the Sunshine Band.

 

[LKellerIII]

"The format already has a name to it, and it is not going to change. Accepted by Arbitron, accepted by the trades, accepted by the industry. There's no real point to debating something that is a fait acomplit."

I think Classic Hits is a good label, because it's flexible. "Classic Hits" KFRC in San Francisco plays primarily late 60s thru late 70s, but also plays a fair number of 80s hits, and has gone back to occasionally throwing in songs from the early 60s. In a few more years, they can dump the 60s and add in the 90s if they want. Oldies clearly had a 50s-60s connotation that Classic Hits does not.

"Oldies" as a label didn't get popular until the 90s in the Bay Area. Early oldies stations were "Solid Gold, and "California Gold." The big oldies station here in the 80s here used the label "Rock and Roll Classics" - the harder "Classic Rock that Rocks" station came along later.

They're just labels, in any case.

 

[firepoint525]

Firepoint I'll give the reason in one word; disco. I think the 1975 limit is too severe; just stop at summer 1977 and right before "Saturday Night Fever". Face it; many of us don't have good memories of the late Seventies (Jimmy Carter, inflation, farm crisis, energy crunch). Disco also died a rapid death. Anything other than disco in that time period was rather slow and like cornbread gruel. Believe me; I was there. The demographic for disco is lacking compared to that for everything from Bread to KC and the Sunshine Band.

I think that's about half of it right there. The other half of it is that the baby boomers (particularly the first half of the baby boom generation) kept the '60s in the spotlight for so long, until the leading edge of generation X was ready to make the '80s "retro." The '70s never really got their moment in the retro spotlight, and if they did, it was brief!

I agree with you about all the "maladies" of the late '70s, and I lived it, too, although I was in my early teens at the time. This is why I could never really understand all the nostalgia for the '60s. Their major "maladies" were the Vietnam War, and repeated assassinations. That's fewer than what we suffered through in the '70s, but those two were also more "major" than ours were. About all I can say is that most of us look back with a sense of fondness, and try to block out the more unpleasant memories of our youth. I hated disco back in the day! It was WAY overplayed on radio! But I actually kinda like some disco now! ;D

And the clothes? Well, even back then, I knew the clothes were gross! I was never one of those "what were we thinking?" types! I knew even back then that the clothes of that era sucked! No wonder streaking was "in"! ;D I'm just glad that relatively few photos exist of me in that awful clothing back then! Especially those short shorts that even guys wore back then!

 

[palalwanabe]

There is plenty to pick from the A.........Z ----------70's
America
Bee Gees
Captain and Tennille
Doobie Brothers
Eagles
Fleetwood Mac
Green, Al
Heart
Ingram, Luther
Jackson Five
Kendricks, Eddie
Lightfoot, Gordon
McCartney
Newton-John
O'Jays
Presley
Queen
Rolling Stones
Three Dog Night
Undisputed Truth
Valli, Franki
Wonder, Stevie
X, Malcom............... Ok, Ok , this one I made-up.
Young, Neil
ZZ top

and I stayed away from Disco.