Can Wild 94-9 Be Saved?

[Daryl Lynn L.A.]

The new MOR is classic rock if you're male; traditional AC if you're female. In ten or fifteen years, it will be "alternative".

A personal story, albeit not Bay Area-oriented: The owner of the station where I had my first professional full-time radio job was the same age that I am now. I remember thinking of him as a tired old man who often wanted to do the right thing but couldn't summon the energy to do so. And, sure, he had smoked, was down to one kidney, and seemed to feel deeply the stress of keeping his radio station going, even though it was quite profitable. I've never smoked, my health is good, and while I had a stressful profession post-radio, I learned how to manage that stress. I don't feel tired. I also don't drive a Lincoln Continental - the owner did - and that, right there, shows you how being in one's 60s has changed. Does that matter to advertisers? Not really. But they're the ones writing the checks, so telling them "you need to shift your perceptions" isn't likely to get very far, AARP The Magazine notwithstanding.

Mark, I agree with you that today's seniors are much more active and have much more energy than seniors of 25 years ago. And, I agree w/ you that it does not matter to advertisers, so even when they are advised to "shift their perceptions", they don't pay much attention.
And, what this means is that the generations like the Boomers and Generation X, are dwindling in size, so there is less listenership, plus younger generations are moving to podcasts and individual playlists. I'm wondering if there are too many radio stations in the Bay Area for the dwindling listenership. They have to struggle for listeners and struggle for ad dollars. So, KYLD may not survive at all. JMO.

 

[Daryl Lynn L.A.]

Maybe in Rossmoor as an LPFM (if it's even technically feasible in the Walnut Creek area) but even there I think the format would age out pretty quickly. There is money there, but motivation is another matter.

Mark, I don't know if a LPFM could reach many people in the Walnut Creek area, due to the terrain. I know you are very familiar with the terrain, having lived in the Montclair section of the Oakland Hills, which has the same terrain.( about 650 feet, but surprisingly steep in places). For others reading this, Walnut Creek is at the junction of Highway 24 and Interstate 680, where it's all rolling hills. I live right by there, and I have difficulty pulling in KKDV 92.1, the simulcast station for country KBAY 94.5 in San Jose. Apparently, KKDV's transmitter is about 2 miles away from me as the crow flies. It should be strong, but it's full of static and fades in and out.
I would love to have a LPFM as a hobby, but I don't think it would reach more than 50 neighbors, due to the terrain. Just my opinion.

 

[Mark Roberts]

Mark, I don't know if a LPFM could reach many people in the Walnut Creek area, due to the terrain. I know you are very familiar with the terrain, having lived in the Montclair section of the Oakland Hills, which has the same terrain.( about 650 feet, but surprisingly steep in places).

My former residence was at about 1400 feet, with clear line of sight to Sutro and Mt. San Bruno. On the other hand, we were shadowed from Monument Peak above Fremont, and, of course, shadowed from Mt. Diablo. The terrain is challenging, to say the least. The top of the ridge usually runs around 1600-1700 feet.

For others reading this, Walnut Creek is at the junction of Highway 24 and Interstate 680, where it's all rolling hills. I live right by there, and I have difficulty pulling in KKDV 92.1, the simulcast station for country KBAY 94.5 in San Jose. Apparently, KKDV's transmitter is about 2 miles away from me as the crow flies.

It's on the Lafayette-Walnut Creek border. You can see it from 24 if you know where to look. For years, it was on a tall-ish wooden telephone pole that reportedly finally just rotted out and had to be replaced. I think it was the Leavitts who had to replace it.

I was sort of kidding about Rossmoor - even though a very close friend lives there and, much to our surprise, loves it. It would drive me nuts.

 

[Daryl Lynn L.A.]

My former residence was at about 1400 feet, with clear line of sight to Sutro and Mt. San Bruno. On the other hand, we were shadowed from Monument Peak above Fremont, and, of course, shadowed from Mt. Diablo. The terrain is challenging, to say the least. The top of the ridge usually runs around 1600-1700 feet.



It's on the Lafayette-Walnut Creek border. You can see it from 24 if you know where to look. For years, it was on a tall-ish wooden telephone pole that reportedly finally just rotted out and had to be replaced. I think it was the Leavitts who had to replace it.

I was sort of kidding about Rossmoor - even though a very close friend lives there and, much to our surprise, loves it. It would drive me nuts.

Thanks, Mark ! I always appreciate your informative and courteous replies.

 

[radiofan2023]

Having the same dream over and over is called... a nightmare!

Especially if it includes the Jardiance lady singing standards!

How does a station like WJEJ support itself? Their format is pretty close to MOR, and it apparently has enough of an audience that the owners feel the format is still viable as is. Is Hagerstown, MD some sort of retirement community where the average age is 90?

They have an FM translator and target Maryland and southern Pennsylvania, based on their advertisers. Hagerstown is part of the DC area and based on the callers I hear on the Phone Party, they have listeners with ages of 40-100. The 100 year old WW2 veteran that calls nearly every day is still pretty sharp. They also have an online store with station merch, though I don’t know how popular that is. I just like listening because it’s like being in a time warp with the Vaughn Monroe songs, 60s weather jingles and talking about hanging up laundry to dry, etc.

Because it’s one of the only standards stations that I know of in the DC area, I’m guessing the age of their listeners may not matter as much as if they were a rock, CHR, etc station. The ads I’ve heard seem to be local businesses, county agencies, a few Air Force ads, possibly sponsored call ins from museum directors, etc.

 

[DXingRadio]

They have an FM translator and target Maryland and southern Pennsylvania, based on their advertisers. Hagerstown is part of the DC area and based on the callers I hear on the Phone Party, they have listeners with ages of 40-100. The 100 year old WW2 veteran that calls nearly every day is still pretty sharp. They also have an online store with station merch, though I don’t know how popular that is. I just like listening because it’s like being in a time warp with the Vaughn Monroe songs, 60s weather jingles and talking about hanging up laundry to dry, etc.

Because it’s one of the only standards stations that I know of in the DC area, I’m guessing the age of their listeners may not matter as much as if they were a rock, CHR, etc station. The ads I’ve heard seem to be local businesses, county agencies, a few Air Force ads, possibly sponsored call ins from museum directors, etc.

WJEJ, AM nor FM translator, reach the Washington DC area at all. It's a unique independent station supported by the Hagerstown area, for sure.

 

[radiofan2023]

WJEJ, AM nor FM translator, reach the Washington DC area at all. It's a unique independent station supported by the Hagerstown area, for sure.

They stream too, so it’s not just about their over the air signal.

 

[cc333]

WJEJ, AM nor FM translator, reach the Washington DC area at all. It's a unique independent station supported by the Hagerstown area, for sure.

Indeed. If it can work there, it stands to reason that, given enough time/money/effort, it could be made to work elsewhere.

Nothing seems to work very well in the Bay Area though, and I'm not really sure why? Too much competition?

They stream too, so it’s not just about their over the air signal.

They do indeed! That's how I discovered them, actually.

There's something weird about the processing, though. It sounds like some sort of weird feedback or something? It's annoying, but still mostly listenable regardless.

c

 

[radiofan2023]

They do indeed! That's how I discovered them, actually.

There's something weird about the processing, though. It sounds like some sort of weird feedback or something?

Haven’t noticed that. How are you listening to them? I use radiogarden and listen to the Phone Party episodes on their Soundcloud page.

 

[cc333]

How are you listening to them?

I use this: WJEJ

c

 

[cc333]

Having the same dream over and over is called... a nightmare!

Especially if it includes the Jardiance lady singing standards!

I know what you mean. I noticed there's a new variation of the TV ad. It's not much better.

c

 

[michael hagerty]

The ads I’ve heard seem to be local businesses, county agencies, a few Air Force ads, possibly sponsored call ins from museum directors, etc.

The Air Force and county agencies would be public service announcements (PSAs), which aren't paid.

 

[michael hagerty]

Indeed. If it can work there, it stands to reason that, given enough time/money/effort, it could be made to work elsewhere.

As John Cleese said in Monty Python's Cheese Shop sketch, "Explain the logic underlying that conclusion, please".

Hagerstown is a city of 43,500 people, 70 miles away from the nearest major city (Washington, D.C.).

The median age is 35.9, it's 60% non-Hispanic white and 97% are U.S. citizens.

Prior to the pandemic, it had a less than 1% growth rate in any given year. That suggests a very stable population.

Even if you could duplicate that, here's what you can't:

The same family has owned WJEJ for 52 years. John Staub bought an existing community-oriented radio station in Hagerstown (it's been on the air since 1932) and just kept doing what they were doing ("Phone Party" has been on the air since 1940). And when he died two years ago, his wife and daughters took over. No changes.

WJEJ doesn't show up in the Hagerstown ratings (it's market #164). Likely, they just don't buy Nielsen. The bulk of the audience is almost certainly people who've been listening a long time---some since Staub bought the station in 1972 or before.

Checking the Hagerstown ratings from 20 years ago---Fall, 2003---WJEJ was fifth in the market with a 5.7 share---the only AM station in the top 10.

I doubt WJEJ slights an advertiser by not including them on their "Our Advertisers" page, so here's what they're working with:

Our Advertisers

Please visit WJEJ Advertisers. Click on each individual icon and check out their websites. Most of our advertisers are small, family-owned businesses like us that need your support. Show your love for your hometown community by shopping with these exceptional businesses. They can't be beat for...

www.wjejradio.com

And look, good for them! John Staub was smart enough not to chase trends or fads and serve an audience he understood. That was repaid with loyalty within the community. So he and now his family have been able to keep it going without ratings.

That's very different from putting a station on the air today with no history or continuity and attempting to attract an audience you can sell or that will donate its own money to keep you on the air and in format.

 

[Mark Roberts]

Let's swing this back around to the basic arithmetic, using an example.

In the 1990s, Music of Your Life/MOR formats tended to appeal to people in their 50s and 60s. Now add "30" to those numbers.

In the 1990s, alternative formats tended to appeal to people in their 20s, maybe early 30s. Now add "30" to those numbers.

These are broad generalizations and aggregations. No doubt there's a 35-year-old out there who loves swing music; and there could well be a 75-year-old hankering for Bush, Sublime, and Garbage. But radio advertising time is bought on the basis of aggregated members of an audience; not on the basis of an individual's unique tastes. The latter wasn't possible 30 years ago; it is now, thanks to (rather intrusive and annoying) technology. Marketers want to target - and will push aside valid privacy and cybersecurity concerns to do so - and now can skip the aggregation that radio and other mass media relied upon - and see what individuals are interested in, are buying, etc.

Meanwhile, if you're looking for an MOR format, streaming is your option. There the annuity salesmen can address you directly instead of scattering their messages to the wind, hoping someone will catch them. Or you could just make a small subscription payment and skip the indirect subsidy.

 

[CassChopper96]

Alice 97.3 ratings are way down from what they used to get to

 

[Goldilocks94941]

I don't agree that you can't attract listeners to music styles that they didn't grow up with in high school. Certainly not everybody, but not everybody in any age category is one monoglot. If you know how to put together a compelling presentation that resonates emotionally in whatever way you want it to, you can develop an audience that might happen to spread out demographically beyond its core constituents.

I hesitate to suggest this, given how many naysayers here seem to delight in trashing anything different that others might like (kinda explains the limitation of the U.S. broadcasting industry, in my opinion). But I think 94.1 The Lounge in Eureka Calif. does a brilliant job of presenting a freshened up Adult Standards format. Lots of new releases, mixed with Great American Songbook material, as well as classics going back as far as the 1930s, that sound bright and new in FM stereo. (You know the kind from the 1950s when stereo started out and they liked to try wide separation between the left and right channels? Mambo, man!)
Actually sounds quite nice streaming from my phone on my car stereo. I enjoying listening for a nice feel-good accompaniment to running errands on the weekend, even tho' I live ~500 miles away in a big city with aggravating traffic.)

I doubt they are the top rated station in the Eureka market. But should everyone have to be? However their group owner makes it work, I think they are a model for other local broadcasters with several FM signals, and one they aren't doing much with. Especially for those larger corporate clusters who need to copy someone else's success, and don't feel comfortable trying something new out on their own.

While offhand I only know of two such commercially-operated Adult Standards/mix stations in Northern California, both are full power FM signals in their markers. However, I recommend the Eureka area station - 94.1 KLGE - over 93.7 KJZY from Sebastopol, who's trying a similar music mix, but doesn't seem to have as much joy or fun in its automated liners, or as sophisticated a mix of music that you'll usually hear on KLGE "The Lounge."

Sure would be nice for an unserved audience to have stations like these is a larger market. And, as those of you itching to tell me how naive I am would just listen for awhile, you'll hear it's not intended to be a senior center station for just the elderly. Maybe this weekend some of you who have time can sample them, and post some positives observations about what you heard. Even if you aren't a fan of the music. See how it works for those who are.

 

[TheBigA]

Sure would be nice for an unserved audience to have stations like these is a larger market. And, as those of you itching to tell me how naive I am would just listen for awhile, you'll hear it's not intended to be a senior center station for just the elderly.

The problem isn't the lack of audience. The problem is the lack of advertiser support. Advertisers have other ways to reach the audience for that music. Fans of that music have other ways of hearing that music, via streaming and satellite. So there's no need to tie up a local radio frequency when they can't get local advertisers to pay for it. The format would work better in a non-commercial way, which is why KEXP purchased KREV and will be running its AAA format there soon.

But yes, in principle I agree that music fans don't restrict their listening to the music they grew up with. I worked in both classical and jazz radio, and all of the music I played pre-dated me. Almost all of it pre-dated the listeners.

 

[davideduardo]

Indeed. If it can work there, it stands to reason that, given enough time/money/effort, it could be made to work elsewhere.

That depends. In smaller markets where there are still local direct retail and professional accounts, those agency "25-54" buys are not as important. So Hagerstown or Traverse City or Live Oak or Flagstaff might work, but big metros will not.

Nothing seems to work very well in the Bay Area though, and I'm not really sure why? Too much competition?

Any business or professional service that can afford full area media has an agency. That is where the door is slammed. Little neighborhood accounts won't be able to use a full market station, and the advertisers who can will have an agency.

 

[rustyhodge]

\While offhand I only know of two such commercially-operated Adult Standards/mix stations in Northern California, both are full power FM signals in their markers. However, I recommend the Eureka area station - 94.1 KLGE - over 93.7 KJZY from Sebastopol, who's trying a similar music mix, but doesn't seem to have as much joy or fun in its automated liners, or as sophisticated a mix of music that you'll usually hear on KLGE "The Lounge."

Interesting, a quick search turned up this public link to KJZY's station loggers if you want to hear some airchecks of it:

Display Directory Files

198.27.159.137

or listen to the live stream KJZYHD2 (Funny the URL shows HD2, I wonder if originally it was a HD2 now the main stream?)

 

[Mark Roberts]

I hesitate to suggest this, given how many naysayers here seem to delight in trashing anything different that others might like (kinda explains the limitation of the U.S. broadcasting industry, in my opinion). But I think 94.1 The Lounge in Eureka Calif. does a brilliant job of presenting a freshened up Adult Standards format. Lots of new releases, mixed with Great American Songbook material, as well as classics going back as far as the 1930s, that sound bright and new in FM stereo. (You know the kind from the 1950s when stereo started out and they liked to try wide separation between the left and right channels? Mambo, man!)
Actually sounds quite nice streaming from my phone on my car stereo. I enjoying listening for a nice feel-good accompaniment to running errands on the weekend, even tho' I live ~500 miles away in a big city with aggravating traffic.)

I doubt they are the top rated station in the Eureka market. But should everyone have to be? However their group owner makes it work, I think they are a model for other local broadcasters with several FM signals, and one they aren't doing much with. Especially for those larger corporate clusters who need to copy someone else's success, and don't feel comfortable trying something new out on their own.

Keep in mind a couple of things. Eureka (and Humboldt County) is quite isolated.* Some distinctive formats have sprouted up there. For example, KWPT, The Point, is nominally a classic-rock station but goes quite deep on the album cuts. KUFX it's not. There's a AAA outlet there, too - adjacent Arcata is a college town, after all.

Second, most ad sales there are local. A lot of ads are, um, "agricultural". (Maybe they're supplying Colorado.) So there's more wiggle room compared to stations in larger markets dependent on national business and media buyers who are locked into particular categories.

Revenue is probably relatively low, but costs may be, too. What has struck me about Eureka when I've been there is how modest the economy is there. (And also how bad the street pavement is.) There are some beautiful Victorian houses that cost maybe 1/8 of what they would cost in the Bay Area.

So it's great that you found something online that you enjoy, and I think no one wants to take that away from you, but be cautious about extrapolating that to over-the-air broadcasting that goes after more mass appeal.

(* Fun fact that I learned from visiting Eureka during the pandemic: there are exactly *19* ER beds in Humboldt County, all of them in Eureka. If the ER runs out of room, the alternatives are Ukiah or Santa Rosa, at least a couple of hours away if not more. That's how isolated it is.)