Can anybody explained to me why in Canada they don't unified their cable dial position with the OTA channel? For example in Toronto: CBLT is broadcasting OTA on Channel 5 and CFTO on Channel 9, but Rogers cable puts them on Cable 6 for CBLT and Cable 8 for CFTO. In Vancouver: CBUT is OTA on 2, CHAN is OTA on 8, CKVU is OTA on 10 and KVOS is OTA (PSIP) 12. Their cable line-up for SHAW is CBUT on 3, CHAN on 11, CKVU on 13, and KVOS is on 30. In Montreal: CBFT OTA is on 2, CBMT OTA is on 6, CFTO OTA is on 10, and CFCF OTA is on 12, but on cable (Videotron) CBFT on 4, CFTM on 7, CFCF on 11, and CBMT is on 13. Why is that in US for example (Seattle WA): KOMO is on 4, KING is on 5, KIRO is on 7, KCTS is on 9, KSTW is on 11, and KCPQ is on 13. Same OTA with Comcast cable line-up.
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Canadian Cable OTA vs. Cable Channel Lineup.
- Thread starter e-dawg
- Start date
The reason for the differing channel numbers is due to signal ingress issues -- many cable systems, in Canada and the US, often put local VHF channels on cable channels other than the local broadcast; otherwise, the station would be interfering with itself if the cable slot is the same as the local channel position. This, more or less, applies only to VHF stations -- the channel numbers on cable higher than 14 operate at frequencies different from the same channel numbers in UHF.
As for the example being KOMO on 4, KING on 5, etc. on Comcast Seattle -- probably depends if you're watching on a digital cable box or on an analog television. Some cable systems would broadcast their local stations digitally at different frequencies, then remap them at the digital cable box to be viewed at the actual channel number.
As for the example being KOMO on 4, KING on 5, etc. on Comcast Seattle -- probably depends if you're watching on a digital cable box or on an analog television. Some cable systems would broadcast their local stations digitally at different frequencies, then remap them at the digital cable box to be viewed at the actual channel number.
H
hintomedia
Guest
e-dawg said:
KVOS used to be on cable 12 in Vancouver (and probably also Victoria) until CIVI launched in 2001 and took that spot.
Some stations also have the same cable and OTA channels outside their home cities. CHCH/11 is on cable 12 in Hamilton, but cable 11 in Toronto. CBUT and CHAN are also carried on cable 2 and 8 respectively in Victoria. CHEK is on cable 6 in both Victoria and Vancouver, probably has something to do with its transmitter being on Saturna Island (halfway between the 2 cities).
Several years ago when I visited New York for the first time, the hotel I was in had analog cable. WCBS was on 2, WNBC was on 4, and all the other VHF stations were in their normal places. The signals were great and there was no interference.
I think in Canada it was CRTC regulations that caused stations to not transmit locally on cable on the same frequency as OTA, as older CRTC documents refer to Channels 5 and 9 in Toronto, for example, as being "impaired" channels on cable there. Perhaps the FCC has no such rule.
I think in Canada it was CRTC regulations that caused stations to not transmit locally on cable on the same frequency as OTA, as older CRTC documents refer to Channels 5 and 9 in Toronto, for example, as being "impaired" channels on cable there. Perhaps the FCC has no such rule.
For years, CFTO always announced themselves as "Channel 9...In Toronto...cable 8!" just before news and sometimes during ads etc.
They get the A+ for doing the best job of letting their viewers always know.
They get the A+ for doing the best job of letting their viewers always know.
M.J. said:
From what I've heard, under Canadian regulations (not sure whether it's CRTC or I-C) it's indeed not permissible to transmit required signals (including the local OTA stations) on channels that are impaired by ingress from local OTA signals. So not only could channel 5 in Toronto not be carried on channel 5 on cable, but it couldn't be carried on channel 9 either.
There is no such rule in the U.S..
Yeziknoradio said:
Quite a few stations did that in the 70s and 80s - CBC Manitoba advertised itself as "CBC 2 - Channel Six", indicating Cable 2 in Winnipeg. CBC Regina, Saskatoon, Edmonton, Calgary, and British Columbia all did something similar.
During the 90s, I visited Alberta, and the locals often used their cable channel numbers:
Calgary:
CICT (Ch. 2)-"Calgary 7" (Also went by 2&7 CKKX before call sign change)
CFCN (Ch. 4)-"CFCN 3" (also saw some old print ads with CFCN 5)
CBRT (Ch. 9)-CBC 9/8
Edmonton:
CFRN (Ch. 3)-"CFRN, It's true, It's 2" / "CFRN 2"
Medicine Hat:
CHAT (Ch. 6) - "CHAT 6 & 3"
Lethbridge
CISA (Ch. 7)-"2 & 7 CISA"
Swift Current, SK
CJFB (Ch. 5) - "CJFB 5 & 9"
Of course now, Channel numbers have all but disappeared from the Canadian TV Landscape - even references to call signs...
Jim
Calgary:
CICT (Ch. 2)-"Calgary 7" (Also went by 2&7 CKKX before call sign change)
CFCN (Ch. 4)-"CFCN 3" (also saw some old print ads with CFCN 5)
CBRT (Ch. 9)-CBC 9/8
Edmonton:
CFRN (Ch. 3)-"CFRN, It's true, It's 2" / "CFRN 2"
Medicine Hat:
CHAT (Ch. 6) - "CHAT 6 & 3"
Lethbridge
CISA (Ch. 7)-"2 & 7 CISA"
Swift Current, SK
CJFB (Ch. 5) - "CJFB 5 & 9"
Of course now, Channel numbers have all but disappeared from the Canadian TV Landscape - even references to call signs...
Jim
I see no one has mentioned that Cogeco in the Niagara Region has for years now, carried WGRZ 2 on ch. 2 In contrast though, WIVB 4 is on 5. And as usual, CBLT is 6 & CFTO is 8. As noted before, CHCH is on 12.
To my knowledge this has never been done in the U.S. I lived in Maine in the 80's & 90's and all our VHF's from Portland & Boston (on cable) were always on their correct broadcast channel. For awhile, I lived in Geneva, NY. All VHF's from Rochester & Syracuse were again on their regular channels. And now in my eastern NY locale, it's the same.
To my knowledge this has never been done in the U.S. I lived in Maine in the 80's & 90's and all our VHF's from Portland & Boston (on cable) were always on their correct broadcast channel. For awhile, I lived in Geneva, NY. All VHF's from Rochester & Syracuse were again on their regular channels. And now in my eastern NY locale, it's the same.
mimo said:
I was just going by a picture I had from an ad on the light rail in Calgary - it was an old one and didn't match the lineup in my hotel room (which was probably 6 - just not 9 as the ad had - but then the ad also had the old CBC logo on it, so it had been there for a while...).
Jim
RBW said:
In Madison, Wis. channel 3 was never carried on 3 on cable in the time I was there. (1977-1991) It was on 13 for the whole period -- I'm told it was moved to 9 shortly after I left. (13 was impaired by ingress from WREX in Rockford, Illinois. Yes, the cable was so leaky that a station 70 miles away could result in ingress issues.....) The remaining stations were all UHF, so while they too were carried "off-channel", you would have expected that.
But it's legal to carry stations on-channel in the US.
In Buffalo, the local VHF's were carried off-channel, but in Niagara County 20 miles to the north, they were on-channel, mainly due to the interference issue.
Toronto/Hamilton Ont. VHF channels (CFTO 9, CHCH 11) were originally carried on-channel across the border, with the exception of CBC Channel 5, which was on Channel 6 (Channel 5 was used for HBO in the Niagara Falls area).
The Canadian channels have since been given higher channel allocations, as the Buffalo locals (specifically the UHFs) demanded better channel placement.
Toronto/Hamilton Ont. VHF channels (CFTO 9, CHCH 11) were originally carried on-channel across the border, with the exception of CBC Channel 5, which was on Channel 6 (Channel 5 was used for HBO in the Niagara Falls area).
The Canadian channels have since been given higher channel allocations, as the Buffalo locals (specifically the UHFs) demanded better channel placement.
Obtuse1 said:
Here's the confusing part:
Since the late 80's/early 90's it been a strict policy of cable companies (and the CRTC?) to have Canadian channels come first on the cable line up, and American stations second.
As of recent years, Rogers Cable Toronto still maintains that.
However, Rogers Cable in Scarborough. (East end Toronto)
decided to move their local community cable 10 way up to 62
and carry WGRZ channel 2 (Buffalo, NY) on cable 10.
I found that to be rather strange...
Yeziknoradio said:
Definitely not the case - on Rogers in Fredericton, WHDH (NBC) Boston is on Cable 2.
It appears sometimes that Canadian stations come first at least in Ontario because TVO is almost always on Cable 2 and Global is almost always on Cable 3.
In Akron, OH (Cleveland market), the Cleveland VHF network affiliates are on different channel numbers...i.e. WKYC/3 is on 2, WEWS/5 is on 11, and WJW/8 is on 9.
It's been that way forever, and the reason given was concern over OTA signal ingress - the stations' transmitters are in the southern Cleveland suburbs, and boom into Akron.
Of course, in the digital era, it's different - WKYC/3 is RF 17 and WEWS/5 is RF 15. WJW sticks, stubbornly, to RF 8...they were RF 31 pre-transition.
By the time large parts of the Cleveland area got cable - only some suburbs had it at first - they weren't as concerned about ingress. The Cleveland based Time Warner system has 3 on 3, 5 on 5, and 8 on 8.
It's been that way forever, and the reason given was concern over OTA signal ingress - the stations' transmitters are in the southern Cleveland suburbs, and boom into Akron.
Of course, in the digital era, it's different - WKYC/3 is RF 17 and WEWS/5 is RF 15. WJW sticks, stubbornly, to RF 8...they were RF 31 pre-transition.
By the time large parts of the Cleveland area got cable - only some suburbs had it at first - they weren't as concerned about ingress. The Cleveland based Time Warner system has 3 on 3, 5 on 5, and 8 on 8.
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