Can't Hear WFAN 660 tonight - Aurora conditions?

[Buckeyes2001]

Here in Vermilion, OH, WFAN 660 comes in pretty much like a local at night. However, tonight as I type this, I can't hear them at all and in fact 660 is just some splatter from WSM 650. Also WABC 770 comes and goes but it quite weak when it's there. WCBS 880 is a little stronger but not like normal. Is anyone else noticing any unusual AM tonight?

 

[crainbebo]

I suppose aurora conditions. This morning was terrible for DX - only heard KFLS 1450 Klamath Falls OR at 6AM TOH and no sign of TP hets. With aurora comes California graveyard action - mainly KNRY 1240 Monterrey CA which when aurora is big time I can hear relatively well with the Immaculate Heart Radio format.

-crainbebo

 

[Icangelp]

Buckeyes2001.

I only listened for a few minutes last night and didn't specifically tune 660, but WCBS was at its usual levels when I passed by the frequency.

However, 860/CJBC was completely missing last night, to the point that I wondered if they were off air.

830 Minneapolis 810 WGY and a few others were also significantly diminished when I tuned them.

Chicago stations boomed in, and WJR was very strong. 800 CKLW, not so good.

Go figure.

I'm in SW Ohio.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

For what it is worth - 660 has always been a weak signal compared to 770 and 880. Prior to station glut, and when 770 actually had a format that mattered, it was a regular in Houston, all you had to do is null the 770 in Albuquerque, then musicradio was on the air in Houston at night. Prior to KRVN, 880 was a regular as far west as Lubbock. 660 KSKY Dallas was a daytime only station, and try as I might in the 60's and 70's, I never had any luck with WNBC (as 660 was called in those days). This was with some really good equipment. Just - too weak.

An interesting anecdote, with nearby powerhouse 710's like KEEL and KGNC, WOR is unreceivable under any circumstances - but: There is sideband interference clearly audible on 720 in Houston, and 700 and 720 in Dallas (Houston has a 700 that operates at night). When I nulled the interference, and looked at the direction of the null with a surveyor quality compass - it is very obvious that WOR is the source. So digital sidebands from WOR make it into Texas at night.

 

[pianoplayer88key]

Bruce, didn't you hear IBOC hash from a Chicago station at midday in Arizona some time ago, maybe using a small portable with a ⅛" long ferrite bar? IIRC wasn't there absolutely *NO* trace of the analog carrier, even with a 6+ft loop & SSB/CW/BFO engaged? (The search here is broken and Google's links go to the old version of this site, though.)
So was it WBBM's sidebands completely wiping out KNST even when you were right next to the latter's transmitter? Or was it WGN obliterating KBMB, or WMVP clobbering KXXT or KTKT?

A quick side note re: IBOC … one of my personal requirements for digital on AM (or anywhere) is weak signal robustness. You should still be able to get a perfect decode, even if you can just barely see a trace of the carrier on the waterfall display of an SDR, and you have to zoom in (so the entire screen width only shows 0.5 Hz) to "get around" the co-channel interference on that graveyard channel.

As for my reception and aurora, I haven't noticed the effects. KXNT on 840 from Vegas (which is basically north of me, about 225-250 miles or so) was just as strong as ever. A couple nights ago KOA was doing a little better than normal, too. I didn't check KNBR (I did listen several nights ago to a Giants game but that was before this week's aurora), KCBS, KGO, KOMO (have a semi-local co-channel) or KSL, though.

How strong of an aurora would it take for me at my latutude (32-45-39N) to … 1 - clearly see the aurora overhead at midday even in heavy overcast, and 2 - have it completely wipe out reception of stations that I normally might clearly hear even at noon on radios whose sensitivity is 10mV/m at 0dB S/N?

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Bruce, didn't you hear IBOC hash from a Chicago station at midday in Arizona some time ago,

It was at a rest stop on highway 64 / 87 near Grenville, NM. I had an extremely good car radio with a full whip antenna. There were only two stations receivable on the dial, except for extremely weak remnants of stations in Amarillo and Denver. So the radio's AGC was obviously opened up to full gain. I was frankly astonished, and the first time it happened I thought it was an atmospheric fluke. But I went the same way during a different season, and it happened again. I would sure welcome independent confirmation.

I think you got confused about a test I did when a frequent poster on here was spouting out nonsense about C-Quam platform motion limiting the range of AM in the presence of mountains - presumably Los Angeles area. I decided to test it for myself in Crosbyton Canyon on highway 114 east of Lubbock. Receiver was an SRF-A1, small because I wasn't going to lug something big and heavy up canyon walls while dodging rattlesnakes. Results were impressive - at 290 miles C-Quam was not limiting the range of two Dallas stations at all, and was quite listenable. This was daytime, of course. The only platform motion I got was on 770, because an Albuquerque station was audible in the background. So - the myth of C-Quam limiting AM broadcast range: BUSTED!

It would be hard for anybody to replicate the test, because both stations have since converted to HD, which very definitely adversely affects the range of both. In order to get any sort of HD reception at all, I had to be within 35 miles of one station, and less than 10 miles from the other. Analog range on both stations is gutted - I doubt you could get a listenable signal in the Crosbyton Canyon now on either one.

Again - I invite anybody with a car, time, and desire to replicate my results. I have been nothing but forthcoming in my test methodology, places where observations were done, time of day and year, and types of receivers used. Replicate the tests and confirm or disprove - but until you do I would appreciate being taken at face value. These are my observations, they are what they are, and I welcome anybody's results if they care to replicate the test.

 

[davideduardo]

I think you got confused about a test I did when a frequent poster on here was spouting out nonsense about C-Quam platform motion limiting the range of AM in the presence of mountains - presumably Los Angeles area. .

You have combined two separate issues I raised involving C-Quam into one and made an incorrect conclusion.

At 50,000 watt KTNQ in LA, we turned off C-Quam for three reasons:

1. Platform motion made in-car listening nauseating to some and annoying to many.
2. C-Quam's artifacts, in deep nulls caused audio deterioration noticed mostly as a "ringing" sound and sometimes what we called "the Darth Vader" effect.
3. Because there were so few C-Quam receivers around '95 or '96, the above issues overpowered any gain achieved by being in AM Stereo.

The result was an immediate increase in measured, documented listening in ZIP Codes in the nulls. The station went on to beat or tie KFI in 25-54 on a number of occasions, despite a highly directional signal protecting KDKA and an very limited night interference free zone that was limited to just under 10 mV/m.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

I would have thought your null was to protect the 50 kW 1020 in Roswell, NM. It is about the same direction and a heck of a lot closer. That Roswell station is a bit of a powerhouse, I can never get KDKA even from Houston.

I know what you mean about those nulls - there is a horrible one on 610 here that hits on a swath through the West part of town. Get in it, and platform motion would sound pleasant by comparison. The channel swapping that happened because of platform motion was actually interesting when listening to music. But the warbling on HD radio when tuned exactly on frequency - probably from slight asymmetry in IF response - now THAT will make anybody sick! I have a good recording of it on an HD station that was broadcasting dead air. I would think, though, that if all stations were required to phase lock their carrier to GPS would solve the platform motion problem on C-Quam. All stations on the same frequency would have the exact same carrier frequency.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

duplicate post deleted