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Carly Simon is classic rock?
- Thread starter vchimpanzee
- Start date
Probably more accurate.
The early “rock” stations were all over the road. KMET in 1972 or 73 had Jim Croce in the studio; Jim Croce played an acoustic version of one of his newest songs. Could you envision KMET playing “Bad Bad Leroy Brown” in the early 80’s?
The evolution of FM rock from Progressive to AOR to fragmentation is fascinating. AOR was very mass appeal (check out the demographic breakdown in the 80’s). Now Classic Rock is the only part of the AOR world that is mass appeal. The AOR offshoots including Active Rock, AAA and Modern Rock have all segued to niche.
The evolution of FM rock from Progressive to AOR to fragmentation is fascinating. AOR was very mass appeal (check out the demographic breakdown in the 80’s). Now Classic Rock is the only part of the AOR world that is mass appeal. The AOR offshoots including Active Rock, AAA and Modern Rock have all segued to niche.
Perhaps the best example of Barry Manilow’s early commercial jingle work is this Polaroid Swinger ad from 1965. I loved it at the time, and couldn’t get the music out of my head:
This is about eight years before Manilow had his breakout hit with “Mandy”. And yes, the girl in the commercial is a very young and then unknown Ali MacGraw.
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I think the term "AOR" was another R&R creation, just like "CHR". They liked making their charts different... all radio based and with different names than used by Billboard and even by Gavin. I can't find usage of "AOR" prior to R&R adopting it. Before that, we did call the original batch of "be sure to wear some flowers in your hair" rockers as Progressive Rock.
Michael, have you tracked the use of those terms?
Well, I have now...
R&R launched in October of 1973, covering four formats---"Singles", "Rock Albums", "Country and Western" and "Pop/MOR"
With the November 9, 1973 issue, R&R changed "Singles" to "Rock".
In the November 1, 1974 issue, R&R dumped the "MOR" from "Pop/MOR" and that chart and news section simply became "Pop".
So Top 40 was "Rock", there were "Rock Albums", and Adult Contemporary was "Pop". You can see (and I can recall) the confusion.
In February of 1975, after briefly referring to it as "FM Rock Radio", R&R coined the term "Album Oriented Rock (AOR)".
In the October 3, 1975, issue "Pop" became "Pop/Adult".
R&R finally settled on "CHR" for "Contemporary Hit Radio" in 1980.
Semoochie, you're looking at this backwards and forgetting the context of the times.
Bread's first album came out in 1969, a year before they got AM Top 40 airplay. It was on Elektra, the Doors' record label, and produced by Bruce Botnik, the Doors' producer. The songs were solid. There was no reason to classify it as anything other than "rock" at that moment.
As for America, they were essentially following in the footsteps of Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young---and delivering an album at a time when those guys weren't.
The question isn't how Bread and America "got on the list"---it's that retroactively after they gained commercial success with softer tracks some people kicked them off their own lists.
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Well, I have now...
R&R launched in October of 1973, covering four formats---"Singles", "Rock Albums", "Country and Western" and "Pop/MOR"
With the November 9, 1973 issue, R&R changed "Singles" to "Rock".
In the November 1, 1974 issue, R&R dumped the "MOR" from "Pop/MOR" and that chart and news section simply became "Pop".
So Top 40 was "Rock", there were "Rock Albums", and Adult Contemporary was "Pop". You can see (and I can recall) the confusion.
In February of 1975, after briefly referring to it as "FM Rock Radio", R&R coined the term "Album Oriented Rock (AOR)".
In the October 3, 1975, issue "Pop" became "Pop/Adult".
R&R finally settled on "CHR" for "Contemporary Hit Radio" in 1980.
When did R&R start tracking stations with soul/R&B formats, and what did R&R call them? Was the format label changed several times over the years, as was the case with Billboard?
R&R was late to this, CTListener. They didn't have a soul/R&B chart or a format editor until sometime in 1977 (I don't have time to track down the exact issue this morning). The used the label "Black Radio". Bill Speed was the original editor.
Exactly. Acts that started their careers on Album Rock radio ended up being excluded because of their success in Top 40 and Adult Contemporary. Which doesn't make a ton of sense to me, since most Album Rock listeners weren't splitting their listening time with Top 40 or AC. They were unlikely to know or care what was playing on those stations.
I've heard Donny once in the past several decades and that was recently. I think it was on a standards station that was trying to not sound like a standards station.
The game show "Name That Tune".
"Sunglasses at Night" is definitely rock, if you ask me.
I was never a P-1 with album rock and somehow missed Bread's and America's beginnings. I don't know how "Sandman" got on your list. It's a pretty soft song! Both it and "Mother Freedom" received Top 40 play, at least where I live.
Corey Hart is after the fact of the discussion. The lines had been re-drawn before he was involved.
This argument is sort of silly. Carly Simon got played on album rock stations before she had any hits at the bare minimum. Charlie Daniels got play on album rock stations before becoming mainstream (Thank God I'm A Country Boy). There were many artists that got airplay even for a short time on album rock radio or progressive radio before they became a big name. The format went from anything to a very defined sound generally by the late 1970s. Generally speaking, this was much more common pre-1975 and on the more free-form progressive stations. I heard artists like Pete Seeger, Miles Davis and Taj Mahal on such stations along with Humble Pie, Gentle Giant, Traffic and many more bands that tended not o make the cut for the late 1970s sound.
I recall listening to KFAD one night and hearing the first movement of Beethoven's 5th Symphony into Roll Over Beethoven by Electric Light Orchestra, then by Chuck Berry.
I recall listening to KFAD one night and hearing the first movement of Beethoven's 5th Symphony into Roll Over Beethoven by Electric Light Orchestra, then by Chuck Berry.
Are you thinking of John Denver, or of Charlie Daniels' "Long Haired Country Boy"?
I realize this thread has been hard to follow, but we've established that Carly got played on album rock stations for eight years after her first hit.
You working from memory, Semoochie? Let's just take it from the final chorus:
I know that I couldn't have played that on an AC station in 1972. I know that I heard it in heavy rotation for months on KMET and KLOS.
And is your suggestion that anything that got Top 40 airplay isn't rock? If so, Led Zeppelin and several dozen other acts would like a word.
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