Carly Simon is classic rock?

[semoochie]

Semoochie, I haven't seen the PBS show in question. You're quoting your mom second hand. I can't find any reference to the specific interview anywhere online.

The only thing online mentioning "Three Dog Night" and "mafia", "organized crime" or "mob" is a Quora post from two years ago---in a thread about Tommy James' book which asks the question "Who in the music industry have crossed paths with the Mafia?"

It's one person replying "Supposedly 70s band Three Dog Night pissed off the Mafia so hard they could no longer get hits through radio play and such." No up or down votes, no replies, no follow-up.

Online interviews with Danny Hutton say nothing about mafia interference. Cory Wells addresses the band's decline in a 2008 interview with Las Vegas Weekly this way:

"We were the darlings of rock there for awhile. We were the darlings of Rolling Stone magazine, until we got too successful. They loved us until we had success, then we weren’t cool enough or edgy enough for them (laughs)." (Full interview here: Lively banter with Three Dog Night co-founder Cory Wells)

And Chuck Negron (no longer with the band) told this to the San Jose Mercury News in 2012:
“The only downside for me, of my career in Three Dog Night, was that the egos never really settled in, like most things do. Can you see Scotty Pippin going, ‘Listen, this Jordan guy’s got to stop shootin’ so much!’ I’m the star!’? No one ever got comfortable with the fact that the first million-seller was me singing ‘One,’ and then the record company, being the record company, wanted another single with my voice. And I happened to have another one in the can that was a hit, ‘Easy To Be Hard.’ So you know record companies — if they’ve got something that’s not broken, they don’t want to fix it.... You bring in your song and you do it. And the other guys are hoping it dies,” Negron says with a chuckle.

...At any rate, pressure got us. We were making so much money that the business end of the people just wanted us to work. We’re doing two albums a year, touring 210 days a year. We’re going from guys that look in our 20s to guys that look in our 40s. And we were having sex with anything that has a pulse,” Negron says, laughing.

The band’s implosion concluded in 1976. “Unfortunately, the business, chewed us up and spit us out. Because we let it. And then there were the drugs.” (full interview here: https://www.mercurynews.com/2012/08/15/the-dark-one-dog-night-of-chuck-negron/)

To the question of "Did Three Dog Night lie to PBS?" Nobody does media interviews under oath. It could be something whichever member of the band was being interviewed believed, or believed at that time. All I can tell you (apart from all of the above) is that, as big records from the Eagles and Fleetwood Mac were landing on my desk in '75 and '76, I was still getting calls from ABC Records trying to get me to add the latest Three Dog Night.

And yes, you're right. Moe died in 1975. Still, Tomas Estefan and his male classmates might have preferred the Three Stooges in their then-current state to Bobby Sherman.

I can't really ask my mother in that she would now be 109! Cory died in 2015 so he's no longer with the band either. Besides Moe Howard, Larry Fine also died in 1975. Perhaps, the response to this thread should be, "Get off my cemetery!".

 

[davideduardo]

I know what you meant to say but it came out, "1961"!

Corrected!

 

[TexasTom]

WBAP-FM was already gone when WFAA-FM flipped, having launched KSCS “Silver Country Stereo” the year before.

Now that's the sort of thing that makes these threads fun -- after all these decades in the DFW area, I finally know what the KSCS call letters stood for. When I was younger, I joked that KSCS stood for "K-Sucks Country"...

The discussion of what is and isn't rock has also been entertaining and makes me think back on how the terminology has changed. For much of the seventies, when it came to radio "rock" actually meant Top 40 as opposed to album rock. But as I understand it, the term "rock" started testing badly with pop listeners so it started disappearing -- and as we got into the eighties is increasingly referred to album rock stations.

But what fit into either format changed over time, as well. "Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald" by Gordon Lightfoot broke on album rock stations (at least in Seattle) before it was ever released as a single and played on top 40 -- I remember hearing it on KISW and KZOK for a month or two before it suddenly appeared all over on KJR, KING-AM, and KTAC. A couple years later, there's no way that KISW or KZOK would have touched Gordon Lightfoot, but they did play Charlie Daniels' "The Devil Went Down To Georgia" at the same time as the local Top 40s (by then including KYYX, KVI-FM/KPLZ, and KNBQ) -- with the difference being that the album rock stations played the version that calls the Devil a "son of a b...." instead of a "son of a gun".

 

[semoochie]

Now that's the sort of thing that makes these threads fun -- after all these decades in the DFW area, I finally know what the KSCS call letters stood for. When I was younger, I joked that KSCS stood for "K-Sucks Country"...

The discussion of what is and isn't rock has also been entertaining and makes me think back on how the terminology has changed. For much of the seventies, when it came to radio "rock" actually meant Top 40 as opposed to album rock. But as I understand it, the term "rock" started testing badly with pop listeners so it started disappearing -- and as we got into the eighties is increasingly referred to album rock stations.

But what fit into either format changed over time, as well. "Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald" by Gordon Lightfoot broke on album rock stations (at least in Seattle) before it was ever released as a single and played on top 40 -- I remember hearing it on KISW and KZOK for a month or two before it suddenly appeared all over on KJR, KING-AM, and KTAC. A couple years later, there's no way that KISW or KZOK would have touched Gordon Lightfoot, but they did play Charlie Daniels' "The Devil Went Down To Georgia" at the same time as the local Top 40s (by then including KYYX, KVI-FM/KPLZ, and KNBQ) -- with the difference being that the album rock stations played the version that calls the Devil a "son of a b...." instead of a "son of a gun".

My understanding was that the single used the gun reference and the album had SOB. The Country stations tended to play the single version. The Top 40 stations did not.

 

[Kelly A]

My understanding was that the single used the gun reference and the album had SOB. The Country stations tended to play the single version. The Top 40 stations did not.

We're at 465. Come on geezers! We can still make this pop history topic hit a radio-discussions record for the highest number of posts on a single inane topic, ever!

 

[gr8oldies]

Now that's the sort of thing that makes these threads fun -- after all these decades in the DFW area, I finally know what the KSCS call letters stood for. When I was younger, I joked that KSCS stood for "K-Sucks Country"...

The discussion of what is and isn't rock has also been entertaining and makes me think back on how the terminology has changed. For much of the seventies, when it came to radio "rock" actually meant Top 40 as opposed to album rock. But as I understand it, the term "rock" started testing badly with pop listeners so it started disappearing -- and as we got into the eighties is increasingly referred to album rock stations.

But what fit into either format changed over time, as well. "Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald" by Gordon Lightfoot broke on album rock stations (at least in Seattle) before it was ever released as a single and played on top 40 -- I remember hearing it on KISW and KZOK for a month or two before it suddenly appeared all over on KJR, KING-AM, and KTAC. A couple years later, there's no way that KISW or KZOK would have touched Gordon Lightfoot, but they did play Charlie Daniels' "The Devil Went Down To Georgia" at the same time as the local Top 40s (by then including KYYX, KVI-FM/KPLZ, and KNBQ) -- with the difference being that the album rock stations played the version that calls the Devil a "son of a b...." instead of a "son of a gun".

Legend has it that "Wreck" hit top 40 when Rosalee Trombley of CKLW needed to fill a CanCon slot. She liked the song but it was too long, so she asked the production staff to do an edit and added it to the playlist. That edit became the official single edit.

WMEE in Fort Wayne flipped its top 40 format from AM to FM when "The Devil Went Down to Georgia" was topping the charts. They stayed top 40 but promised more full album cuts, less talk, etc. On AM it was "Son of a Gun" (the song remained on the AM's replacement hot country format), but the SOB version took over on the now "hipper" FM.

 

[TexasTom]

Legend has it that "Wreck" hit top 40 when Rosalee Trombley of CKLW needed to fill a CanCon slot. She liked the song but it was too long, so she asked the production staff to do an edit and added it to the playlist. That edit became the official single edit.

It's actually a pretty minor edit -- I have the vinyl 45 from a long time ago, and it has a running time of 5:55 listed on it (Wikipedia says 5:57), versus about 6:30 for the full album cut. The 45 cuts an instrument bridge between two verses and it fades down faster at the end. At the time that it came out, I didn't even notice the difference.

 

[Harvey_Dogg]

So this thread is about Carly Simon being Classic Rock? Yet multiple posts about bubblegummer's Bobby Sherman and Three Dog Night.

At least she might be compared to other singer-song writers who came out of the folk scene who were played on free form radio and top 40 back in the day. Judy Collins. Joni Mitchell. Joan Baez. Celine Dion. Amy Grant. These artists are now AC or classic hits.

 

[CTListener]

So this thread is about Carly Simon being Classic Rock? Yet multiple posts about bubblegummer's Bobby Sherman and Three Dog Night.

At least she might be compared to other singer-song writers who came out of the folk scene who were played on free form radio and top 40 back in the day. Judy Collins. Joni Mitchell. Joan Baez. Celine Dion. Amy Grant. These artists are now AC or classic hits.

James Taylor and Cat Stevens, too. Both ex-romantic interests of Carly Simon, coincidentally.

Celine Dion and Amy Grant on free-form radio? Out of the folk scene? In what universe did this occur?

469 and counting! Geezer on! (That's my new rallying cry'hashtag for this thread. Idea taken from Luke Bryan's new single, "Country On.")

 

[michael hagerty]

So this thread is about Carly Simon being Classic Rock? Yet multiple posts about bubblegummer's Bobby Sherman and Three Dog Night.

Gee, Harvey, so we shouldn’t be discussing any artists other than Carly Simon?

 

[michael hagerty]

469 and counting! Geezer on! (That's my new rallying cry'hashtag for this thread. Idea taken from Luke Bryan's new single, "Country On.")

Well, if we subtracted all but the first post stating the same opinion from Kelly and my having to post evidence that yes, in fact, FM rock stations of the time considered her an artist worthy of play (by the way, Harvey, still waiting to hear call letters and market of the powerful major market FM rock station where you were MD in the 70s), plus political and other statements requiring correction, oh—-and Kelly’s latest trolling technique (the ”geezer”), we probably could have brought it in south of 150, but as that great classic rocker Doris Day said, Que Sera, Sera.

 

[Harvey_Dogg]

Gee, Harvey, so we shouldn’t be discussing any artists other than Carly Simon?

View attachment 3349

Carly Simon also likes Adult Standards. Nice job on this Benny Goodman hit.

 

[michael hagerty]

Carly Simon also likes Adult Standards. Nice job on this Benny Goodman hit.

*Benny Goodman has entered the chat as the guest of Harvey_Dogg*

 

[michael hagerty]

Carly Simon also likes Adult Standards. Nice job on this Benny Goodman hit.

And as an illustration of how these things expand, some context:

Carly was early to the Standards thing. Ringo Starr released “Sentimental Journey“ in 1970 and Harry Nilsson teamed with Nat Cole’s conductor/arranger Gordon Jenkins for “A Little Bit of Schmilsson in the Night” in 1973, neither of which sold well and most other artists of that generation stayed away.

Carly released “Torch” in 1981—predating Linda Ronstadt’s “What’s New” by three years. After Linda, of course, there have been standards albums by Rod Stewart and a dozen or more others.

The Nilsson and Carly standards albums are among my favorite albums, period:

https://albumism.com/features/carly-simon-torch-turns-40-anniversary-retrospective

 

[tbolt909]

Well, if we subtracted all but the first post stating the same opinion from Kelly and my having to post evidence that yes, in fact, FM rock stations of the time considered her an artist worthy of play (by the way, Harvey, still waiting to hear call letters and market of the powerful major market FM rock station where you were MD in the 70s), plus political and other statements requiring correction, oh—-and Kelly’s latest trolling technique (the ”geezer”), we probably could have brought it in south of 150, but as that great classic rocker Doris Day said, Que Sera, Sera.

Kelly is adamant that Simon isn't "Classic Rock". We have established that she was played on FM album rock stations long ago. The world does not revolve around today's rigid Radio formats. Most musicians don't classify themselves by Radio format names...

 

[vchimpanzee]

My understanding was that the single used the gun reference and the album had SOB. The Country stations tended to play the single version. The Top 40 stations did not.

Also, in the mid 90s there were some country stations that were more adventurous about what they would play. Those played the SOB version.

 

[Harvey_Dogg]

Way back in 1972, this old geezer remembers WNAP playing Merle Haggard - Okie From Muskogee along with progressive rock artists. They were free form and kind of fun.

Today Merle Haggard is called classic country.

 

[KeithE4]

I remember WNAP quite well from my youth in Bloomington. Mostly Top 40 with some album cuts during the day, reversed at night.

They'd play Merle, followed by The Osmonds, then Jethro Tull and John Lee Hooker. I still have Music Markers from 1971 and early 1972.

 

[michael hagerty]

I remember WNAP quite well from my youth in Bloomington. Mostly Top 40 with some album cuts during the day, reversed at night.

That’s essentially the approach the original KROQ-AM took when it launched in 1972. Charlie Tuna did a straight Top 40 show in the morning, album cuts filtered in at 9:00 am with Sam Riddle, Jay Stevens, Steve Lundy and Jim Wood, then Jimmy Rabbitt would go mostly album with some hits at 9:00 pm and they’d stick with that until 6:00 am.

 

[TomásEstefan]

So this thread is about Carly Simon being Classic Rock? Yet multiple posts about bubblegummer's Bobby Sherman and Three Dog Night.

At least she might be compared to other singer-song writers who came out of the folk scene who were played on free form radio and top 40 back in the day. Judy Collins. Joni Mitchell. Joan Baez. Celine Dion. Amy Grant. These artists are now AC or classic hits.

I thought Amy Grant was a major Christian format artist.