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cart machines

The first digital editing system I learned was SAW, and the very first incarnations of Cool Edit (before Pro).

I realize that I was getting into the biz right at the time when the digital revolution was well under way. I am amused about the discussion that college students should learn how to use the carts and reel tapes. That's the only time I did...and I've never used it again. Oh, and since then the college converted to Pro Tools, and they no longer edit reel tape or use carts. 'Bout time...
 
Countrykev said:
The first digital editing system I learned was SAW, and the very first incarnations of Cool Edit (before Pro).

I realize that I was getting into the biz right at the time when the digital revolution was well under way. I am amused about the discussion that college students should learn how to use the carts and reel tapes. That's the only time I did...and I've never used it again. Oh, and since then the college converted to Pro Tools, and they no longer edit reel tape or use carts. 'Bout time...
Click to expand...

Please re-read my post.

I'm saying that there should be some knowledge and respect for the history of production but not actually USING carts and reels now.

I feel sorry for those same colleges that throw the old equipment on the scrap heap without first telling the students WHY they don't have to use it anymore.

And I don't respect a broadcaster just because he/she can use a computer or software better than me.
I respect them more if they've actually heard of Alan Freed or Murray the K.
There's a big difference.
 
Cart machines rock. Open-reel decks rock. And anyone who has never used a cart machine or spliced tape-- or even cued up a record has no business behind a radio console, let alone a microphone. These are reliable technologies that are still standing the test of time... I use them almost every day in my transcription studio. Alot more quality and stability-- repeatability, if you will-- went into these devices than any crappy taiwanese manufactured computer crap.

There is only one reason why it is so prevalent in broadcasting today, and that reason is that is is cheaper-- both from a payroll and from a purchase standpoint.

The grass is not always greener on the digital side, but I digress...

That cat was let out of the bag a long time ago, and there's no way to get it back into the bag where it belongs...

-A
 
The value of digital production equipment, besides cost savings, is the increase in productivity. Several of us were sitting around one of the first digital workstations (the Studer one, if memory serves), and we couldn't think of anything you could do with it in the way of production that you couldn't do with scissors, two track tape, and a multitrack machine; keeping the cart result at third generation or better. But, the time involved would be so great that things simply weren't done even though they were within the realm of possibility. The productivity of the creative types was greatly enhanced by workstations.
The last Tomcat recorder I bought ran just over $6 thousand, and that was in 1980something dollars. Which is what, maybe 9 Large today? I don't think I can spend 9K on a good digital workstation including software and hardware, in today's dollars.
I purely do not miss doling out stylii to the jocks every 90 days, and telling them they had to replace them out of pocket if they tore them up sooner. Replacing cue - burned 45s in the play bins never was my idea of stimulating labor. It only takes maybe a year of Monday weekly PMI on the cart machines to realize you have a pretty good feel for how they work and what keeps them going. The zen of a lumpy ider roller on a Cue-Master escapes me entirely. As does balancing the bias on a Level Devil daily so it ran reasonably undistorted (and reasonably is a relative term!)
I >do< miss the precision the operators learned when they had to work with this equipment. Gross level errors were unacceptable, because they'd make the station sound really lousy. Tight cues kept the pace lively and the flow 'hi energy'. They still do, and the place still sounds better when the meters are where they ought to be. But sloppiness seems to be at least tolerated in many outlets. If you listen, though, you can pick the ones where it isn't allowed. It may be anecdotal, but it seems to me, the better soundong ones tend to be the ones where the owner(s) are within the coverage area of the station.
 
Perhaps you missed Alan's Point...only if we understand the past can we appreciate the present and the future...that was my take...Thanks...JBI
 
Bring Back Element 9

The point that comes to my mind is the fact that most of today's kiddies don't have a clue as to how radio works. Whatever happens between the time they crack the mic to the time it comes out a receiver somewhere is a deep, dark mystery. They have no idea of the effect that pinning the needle when they talk has on the final product.

Add music that comes off CD compressed like a brick, or is downloaded from some MP3 site, then recompressed in the air chain, and you get the muddy crap that passes for audio on most CHR stations these days. It's no wonder that these kids don't object to the awful audio that comes out of their MP3 players and satellite receivers.

The day that the FCC dropped the requirement for a 3rd ticket with broadcast endorsement is the day that the decline began. It's like giving people a driver's license without making them pass a test. Then they wonder why people don't drop power on transmitters at sunset, fill out logs properly, or perform EAS tests correctly.
 
For that matter, can you imagine what today's all-in-one, wonderbox digiprocessors could do if fed cleanly with yesterday's material? No, I'm not talking about 'remastered' brickwall squashed CD versions of yesterday's recordings. I'm talking about maybe, say, a orange label Crapitol Beatles, or for classical or jazz, an early Columbia Masterworks. I'd just love to set up a decent 'table in a studio somewhere with a decent preamp. Set it up right with a high compliance arm and cartridge properly aligned and balanced and send the signal straight into the board...

No back-cueing and no segue's. Just announce "Listen to this" and drop a damped arm onto the first track.

Hell, could this be the next dangerous potentially hazardous radio stunt? "Guess what this sound is..."

Could call it "Drop your Wee for a Wii..."

Weeeeeee....!

Holy crap do I hate today's POP CULTURE!!!

-A
 
Alan Fletcher said:
Cart machines rock. Open-reel decks rock. And anyone who has never used a cart machine or spliced tape-- or even cued up a record has no business behind a radio console, let alone a microphone. These are reliable technologies that are still standing the test of time... I use them almost every day in my transcription studio. Alot more quality and stability-- repeatability, if you will-- went into these devices than any crappy taiwanese manufactured computer crap.

There is only one reason why it is so prevalent in broadcasting today, and that reason is that is is cheaper-- both from a payroll and from a purchase standpoint.

The grass is not always greener on the digital side, but I digress...

That cat was let out of the bag a long time ago, and there's no way to get it back into the bag where it belongs...

-A
Click to expand...

We still have cart machines, CD cart players, and a reel-to-reel deck in our one AM's on-air studio. We don't use those devices today, but they're there if we should ever need them.
 
Great thread guys!

I agree with Alan’s take, from the historic standpoint. I’ve been around the block myself. When I got into radio as a teenager back in the mid 80’s, carts, reels, and occasionally a record were used at the studio. Reels had the music, and carts were primarily for everything else.

I appreciate today’s systems from the cost / maintenance standpoint. IMHO this technology saves $$$ in the long run, especially for small market radio. After awhile, cleaning / degaussing tape heads every day, losing records from cue burn and precisely stacking carts in order only to accidentally knock ‘em over gets kind of frustrating.

But I do agree kids getting into radio today without learning how to operate the analog gear, has it a little too easy. Some of that “junk” is still in use, especially in third world countries, and likely still remains as back up equipment at any given number of stations.

Regarding the comments concerning the audio quality of source material, that is indeed true. Garbage in = garbage out. The stupid music industry today doesn’t give a damn about audio quality. They want their product to sound as loud as it does on the radio.

As an oldies music programmer today, I care about the audio quality of the source material, and I will not hesitate to reject use of poorly mastered consumer CD’s. I absolutely love the audio quality of Jones TM (formerly TM Century) GoldDiscs. Their product is always my preferred choice for source material.

R
 
Robert Bass said:
But I do agree kids getting into radio today without learning how to operate the analog gear, has it a little too easy. Some of that “junk” is still in use, especially in third world countries, and likely still remains as back up equipment at any given number of stations.
Click to expand...

I've talked with a number of college professors that operate the campus radio station, and they've told me that they've not upgraded to digital systems for this very purpose. Either that, or they simply have Adobe Audition in the production studio.

Nevertheless, today's technology has saved broadcasters a fortune over the years. It's less equipment to buy, you can, in most cases, trade out for PC's, and engineering maintenance fees are much less. What's more, it's saved many stations from the brink of financial ruin by dramatically lowering their operating costs. It's even enabled "dark" stations to make a comeback.
 
Ur-A-Dawg said:
Herschel Sills said:
Do radio stations still use cart machines?
Click to expand...
only in Martinsville
Click to expand...

..and maybe Tallahassee, Fla..one of the nation's worst AM radio markets.
 
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