When did radio stations begin putting their music... or at least their heavily played currents onto carts? Those were handy little things back then as the carts would cue themselves up and there was no risk of cue burn. You could get a lot more life out of the record that way.
-
Get involved.
We want your input!
Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.
After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.
After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/
Thanks in advance and have fun!
RadioDiscussions Administrators
Carted music
- Thread starter johnbasalla
- Start date
Cart machines were invented in the 50s, and the National Association of Broadcasters approved a standard around 1960. They were initially intended for just spots and jingles, but by the early 60s they were reliable enough (and with enough tape inside) for 3.5 minutes of content. So some stations (especially those that could afford lots of playback machines and carts) started carting music then. For Top 40 stations, they were a godsend -- no cue burns and easy to store. But there were still many stations that didn't use carts for music for several more years. Stereo carting was particularly problematic because of the dangers of phase problems, so it took even longer for FM stations to widely cart music.
WABC, New York was an early adopter...all their music on cart by the mid-1960s.
KHJ, Los Angeles, on the other hand, carted only LP cuts, station edits and exclusives (with a whispered "KHJ World Premiere" over strategic portions) until they went combo (jocks running their own boards) in '76 or '77. At that point, everything was on cart.
It was easier in those days to get multiple copies of new records than it was to get oldies, so at my stations, I carted the gold and played 45s for the currents. Exceptions were songs that burned easily or where the intros were so quiet that any noise would be problematic. I made getting 10 duplicate copies a condition of adding a new single...a standard practice at many bigger stations.
KHJ, Los Angeles, on the other hand, carted only LP cuts, station edits and exclusives (with a whispered "KHJ World Premiere" over strategic portions) until they went combo (jocks running their own boards) in '76 or '77. At that point, everything was on cart.
It was easier in those days to get multiple copies of new records than it was to get oldies, so at my stations, I carted the gold and played 45s for the currents. Exceptions were songs that burned easily or where the intros were so quiet that any noise would be problematic. I made getting 10 duplicate copies a condition of adding a new single...a standard practice at many bigger stations.
michael hagerty said:
There's a classic aircheck at musicradio77.com of WABC's Dan Ingram at the start of the 1965 blackout (which began as a brownout). As the voltage falls, the capstans on all the carts start slowing down -- ruining the jingles and the music. Ingram sounds genuinely perplexed, but he jokes about it and keeps smiling.
Re: ? for Mr. Hagerty
Actual poly-vinyl was way better then styrene pressings. Back in the 1960s, I assume most promo copies were pressed in durable vinyl. If certain records cue-burned faster, it was probably because they were made of styrene. Did you ever end up using all 10 copies? Did you notice the difference in pressings?
I remember that Columbia Records gave radio station's high quality vinyl pressings, while less durable pressings went to the store (although not the cheapest version of the styrene product). Capitol Records seemed to give both radio and consumer the same good quality vinyl. RCA generally did what Columbia did.
Actual poly-vinyl was way better then styrene pressings. Back in the 1960s, I assume most promo copies were pressed in durable vinyl. If certain records cue-burned faster, it was probably because they were made of styrene. Did you ever end up using all 10 copies? Did you notice the difference in pressings?
I remember that Columbia Records gave radio station's high quality vinyl pressings, while less durable pressings went to the store (although not the cheapest version of the styrene product). Capitol Records seemed to give both radio and consumer the same good quality vinyl. RCA generally did what Columbia did.
Re: ? for Mr. Hagerty
Quality of promo copies vaired greatly. You're right about styrene as opposed to vinyl.
Rarely did I go through all 10 copies. 3-5 was about right...7 for a troublesome one.
I may have gone through 10 of one or two from MCA around 1974....they'd switched to recycled vinyl and some of it was pressed with microscopic bits of the old labels ground into the vinyl....getting a copy that didn't skip or stick was a challenge for a few months....made worse by the fact that it was Elton John's label and one of his peak years.
Capitol was very good...and so was Warners when they switched pressing to Capitol around '75 or '76 (the ridges around the label were the giveaway).
johnbasalla said:
Quality of promo copies vaired greatly. You're right about styrene as opposed to vinyl.
Rarely did I go through all 10 copies. 3-5 was about right...7 for a troublesome one.
I may have gone through 10 of one or two from MCA around 1974....they'd switched to recycled vinyl and some of it was pressed with microscopic bits of the old labels ground into the vinyl....getting a copy that didn't skip or stick was a challenge for a few months....made worse by the fact that it was Elton John's label and one of his peak years.
Capitol was very good...and so was Warners when they switched pressing to Capitol around '75 or '76 (the ridges around the label were the giveaway).
Re: ? for Mr. Hagerty
I agree, the MCA pressings then were terrible, and sounded terrible. At one station, we replaced our worn out Steely Dan discs on ABC with clean MCA repressings. The fidelity on the older discs was so plainly superior, we switched back to them -- even with the surface pops.
michael hagerty said:
I agree, the MCA pressings then were terrible, and sounded terrible. At one station, we replaced our worn out Steely Dan discs on ABC with clean MCA repressings. The fidelity on the older discs was so plainly superior, we switched back to them -- even with the surface pops.
Do they still use Carts today??
MarioMania said:
Somebody somewhere might but I doubt it.
After years of using carts on the air I remember going to CD's. I thought it would be so great, but it wasn't. Oh the sound was a big improvement but from using carts on the air all of us had problems remembering to cue up to the correct track number on the CD. A few times songs got played that were not exactly in the format. The CD players themselves even though they were built for radio sometimes refused to cue up to the cut you wanted.
Also in the days of the cart, you could pull the music for your entire shift. The CD's we used were Century 21 Gold Discs and they would repeat CD's so you really couldn't do that.
In my first on-air job it was a MOR station and record service wasn't a good as the top 40 stations received. We started by carting the currents and eventually got around to doing the oldies. I just heard an old aircheck of mine with a very badly cue burned "Yesterday When I was Young" by Roy Clark. I remember it was on Dot Records. Scepter Records were also bad when it came to cue burns.
Carts were a good move but I missed the info you could get off the record labels like what record company an artist was on or more importantly who wrote the song.
Prais said:
Did you run afoul of the AFM local by doing that, or were you a member?
Follow-up Q for you, Prais:
Were you also allowed to operate the cart machines and board, or just the turntables,
in the cart dubbing sessions? Assume this was in a production room.
Were you also allowed to operate the cart machines and board, or just the turntables,
in the cart dubbing sessions? Assume this was in a production room.
This gets even deeper, deep enough to go two ways...
1) So you didn't run afoul of other local radio unions by operating stuff besides
turntables? Or did AFM hold all the engineering contracts at WIND?
2) WIND didn't get cart machines until circa 1970? What did they do before
then for spots and the like--run them all off of ETs or reel-to-reel?
1) So you didn't run afoul of other local radio unions by operating stuff besides
turntables? Or did AFM hold all the engineering contracts at WIND?
2) WIND didn't get cart machines until circa 1970?
What did they do beforethen for spots and the like--run them all off of ETs or reel-to-reel?
Yep, 1970. Til then they had 6 "record turners" that had to be union musicians. Spots and music ALL on disk (I think wgn changed over a few YEARS later than that,)
The first song to air from a cart was "Games" by Redeye. They used 1 cart w/that song for a few months to test it. Then, I came along, and recorded roughly 50 songs a day (I had other duties, too and back then there was only 1 production room, (really!!) so I got thrown out a lot and used in many locally produced promos and spots.
The first song to air from a cart was "Games" by Redeye. They used 1 cart w/that song for a few months to test it. Then, I came along, and recorded roughly 50 songs a day (I had other duties, too and back then there was only 1 production room, (really!!) so I got thrown out a lot and used in many locally produced promos and spots.
we had maybe a dozen carted songs to keep as backups when the current box of records was out in the remote bus...we would use the carts until the bus got back and returned the box 'o records to the blue metal stool it sat on next to the board..lol..also had a couple of long carts with four or five songs and some jingles on it to use as "bathroom' break music..useful on weekends when your there alone and no one to ride the board while your in the "download" center..all of this in the early/mid 70's at a small 1000 watt daytimer north of nashville...i think by the early seventies wmak/wkda in nashville were carting their tunes then...and about that same time 92Q in hendersonville,tn had everything on carts as they were automated using huge revolving carousels..
The Chicago musicians uion was a horrible bunch of thugs. Gorrillas
WIND used to "pay off" the stewards to look the other way, so there could be some things done.
The record turners were the LAST hold out.
When I came to work (non union) the pd Bob Moomey, explained to me that "there might be some trouble" (I was just a 21 year old kid amongst some guys in their early 60's who had many reasons to HATE me), but I would have done ANYTHING to have the job I had.
Moomey saw to it that I was treated well (and so were the turners) with lots of "bonuses" (because the station was doing VERY well and WESTINGHOUSE owned us.. Eventually the place went ALL cart without any trouble.
WLS went all cart in about 1961 (a year after they went top 40). When cfl went top 40 theyplayed 45 's for a couple of years, until their pd actually THREW OUT the record turners and went ALL cart in about '64. The station was OWNED by the Chicago Federation of Labor, but the bosses had hardly any knowledge of management or radio. They were ALL thugs.
WGN was the last place to use "record turners." They too, remodeled and modernized.
WIND used to "pay off" the stewards to look the other way, so there could be some things done.
The record turners were the LAST hold out.
When I came to work (non union) the pd Bob Moomey, explained to me that "there might be some trouble" (I was just a 21 year old kid amongst some guys in their early 60's who had many reasons to HATE me), but I would have done ANYTHING to have the job I had.
Moomey saw to it that I was treated well (and so were the turners) with lots of "bonuses" (because the station was doing VERY well and WESTINGHOUSE owned us.. Eventually the place went ALL cart without any trouble.
WLS went all cart in about 1961 (a year after they went top 40). When cfl went top 40 theyplayed 45 's for a couple of years, until their pd actually THREW OUT the record turners and went ALL cart in about '64. The station was OWNED by the Chicago Federation of Labor, but the bosses had hardly any knowledge of management or radio. They were ALL thugs.
WGN was the last place to use "record turners." They too, remodeled and modernized.
Prais said:
I guess you're not worried about the ghost of Petrillo coming back to haunt you. ;D
A story by either Landecker or Lujack alluded to even after WLS carted all its music,
they still had to employ an AFM guy or two to handle the records for dubbing to cart.
There is a photo I saw years ago of a WGN studio with an announcer at his mic setup,
a board engineer at a console, and in between them a nerdy-looking AFM guy in a suit
and tie in between two turntables. The record turner was referred to as the "disc jockey."
The big stations had 6 turners for a few years, then 3, then 1. But by then, they came to work and READ THE NEWSPAPER...at wind they flung old 45's out the Wrigley Building window into the river. At WCFL, they used to sleep in the production room (where Chickenman , the Tooth Fairy, and their other fabulous production (like capsule countdown and mini spins) came from.
I can't say enough good things about wind pd (the late) Bob Moomey. He did see that I was a "sucker" and would do anything to work there, but when he said something, it was good.
"WIND #1 Music" was his idea. Howard Miller got fired, and Westinghuse FIRED the manager that fired Howard. For about 2 years NOBODY listened. They were "uptempo mor with personality -but seldom in the top 20 stations.
When Moomey changed the format to oldies, brought in ROBERT W. MORGAN and LARRY THE LEGEND JOHNSON WIND went from an "also ran" to top 3 ratings for about 3 years. Revenue went through the roof.
Then, WFYR went Drake Automated oldies, with a beautiful Schaefer automation system, and hurt us. RKO from Los Angeleas bought WFYR for a million dollars (then the highest price ever for an fm). They bought a sad old bar and turned it into "the FYR station", a dance club with oldies, and promoted the daylights out of the place.
They beat us only because the oldies sounded better in stereo. We still had GREAT personality, but "more music" won.
I can't say enough good things about wind pd (the late) Bob Moomey. He did see that I was a "sucker" and would do anything to work there, but when he said something, it was good.
"WIND #1 Music" was his idea. Howard Miller got fired, and Westinghuse FIRED the manager that fired Howard. For about 2 years NOBODY listened. They were "uptempo mor with personality -but seldom in the top 20 stations.
When Moomey changed the format to oldies, brought in ROBERT W. MORGAN and LARRY THE LEGEND JOHNSON WIND went from an "also ran" to top 3 ratings for about 3 years. Revenue went through the roof.
Then, WFYR went Drake Automated oldies, with a beautiful Schaefer automation system, and hurt us. RKO from Los Angeleas bought WFYR for a million dollars (then the highest price ever for an fm). They bought a sad old bar and turned it into "the FYR station", a dance club with oldies, and promoted the daylights out of the place.
They beat us only because the oldies sounded better in stereo. We still had GREAT personality, but "more music" won.
- Status