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CBS 2 NBC 4 ABC 7
- Thread starter e-dawg
- Start date
> How did CBS got 2, NBC got 4 and ABC got 7 in major markets?
>
At one time it was thought by ABC that the low VHF would be eliminated. Thus ABC wanted Channel 7. This would allow them to be first on the dial after low VHF (channels 2-6) were eliminated.
NBC wound up on channel 4 in NYC, and optioned that channel in other markets where it had O&O and Channel 4 was available for consistancy. In other markets Channel 5 was NBC.
CBS had to play catch up. At first in such major markets as Chicago and Los Angeles they didn't O&O. I think it had something to do with CBS beliveing that with a new system all TV would move to UHF. So when they went after TV Stations they wanted low VHF if possible.
Low VHF has poorer reception than the higher VHF channels but has a couple of advantages. It uses less power and it travels farther. In days before cable being on Channel 2 meant your signal went farther. Even if the people in the fringes got only barely watchable TV, in the days before cable, that was good enough.
So when CBS realized TV wasn't going to all go to UHF they decided to buy some TV stations. They naturally wanted low VHF and with NBC on 4 and 5 mostly, that left 2 and 3 for CBS.
Of course there are many exceptions to this.
<P ID="signature">______________
Once I figured out the meaning of life....Then I forgot to write it down.</P>
>
At one time it was thought by ABC that the low VHF would be eliminated. Thus ABC wanted Channel 7. This would allow them to be first on the dial after low VHF (channels 2-6) were eliminated.
NBC wound up on channel 4 in NYC, and optioned that channel in other markets where it had O&O and Channel 4 was available for consistancy. In other markets Channel 5 was NBC.
CBS had to play catch up. At first in such major markets as Chicago and Los Angeles they didn't O&O. I think it had something to do with CBS beliveing that with a new system all TV would move to UHF. So when they went after TV Stations they wanted low VHF if possible.
Low VHF has poorer reception than the higher VHF channels but has a couple of advantages. It uses less power and it travels farther. In days before cable being on Channel 2 meant your signal went farther. Even if the people in the fringes got only barely watchable TV, in the days before cable, that was good enough.
So when CBS realized TV wasn't going to all go to UHF they decided to buy some TV stations. They naturally wanted low VHF and with NBC on 4 and 5 mostly, that left 2 and 3 for CBS.
Of course there are many exceptions to this.
<P ID="signature">______________
Once I figured out the meaning of life....Then I forgot to write it down.</P>
J
Joseph_Gallant
Guest
Markxxx wrote:
> CBS had to play catch up. At first in such major markets as
> Chicago and Los Angeles they didn't have an O&O. I think it had
> something to do with CBS beliveing that with a new system,
> all TV would move to UHF.
It was the company's field-sequential color-TV system, which originally was designed to work only on UHF frequencies.
> So when they went after TV Stations they wanted low VHF if possible.
This was only after the FCC's 1947 decision in which the Commission decided not to approve any color TV system. So, CBS had to quickly build-up a black-and-white network on VHF stations. The theory behind getting affiliates on Channel 2 was that the supposedely, TV signals on low VHF channels, especially Channel 2, travel further than TV signals on high VHF channels or UHF channels. Some claim that this theory even explains why CBS went so heavily into "rural" sitcoms during the 1960's.
I also don't think ABC ever thought the low VHF channels were going to be deleted. The reason, from what I once read, why ABC went for five licenses on Channel 7 was because almost nobody had applied for "high VHF's" (channels 7-13). ABC believed that it would get licenses for the five cities (New York, Detroit, Chicago, San Francisco/Oakland, Los Angeles; all of which had ABC-owned radio stations at the time) they applied for if they applied for Channel 7 in those five cities. It turns out that they did.
Having what was then the network's five O&O's on Channel 7 opened-up a number of promotional and marketing opportunities----the most famous of which being the "Circle 7" logo that all the ABC O&O's adopted around 1962 or 1963, around the same time the network's current logo was adopted. I believe that all the ABC O&O's that broadcast on Channel 7 still use this logo today.
> CBS had to play catch up. At first in such major markets as
> Chicago and Los Angeles they didn't have an O&O. I think it had
> something to do with CBS beliveing that with a new system,
> all TV would move to UHF.
It was the company's field-sequential color-TV system, which originally was designed to work only on UHF frequencies.
> So when they went after TV Stations they wanted low VHF if possible.
This was only after the FCC's 1947 decision in which the Commission decided not to approve any color TV system. So, CBS had to quickly build-up a black-and-white network on VHF stations. The theory behind getting affiliates on Channel 2 was that the supposedely, TV signals on low VHF channels, especially Channel 2, travel further than TV signals on high VHF channels or UHF channels. Some claim that this theory even explains why CBS went so heavily into "rural" sitcoms during the 1960's.
I also don't think ABC ever thought the low VHF channels were going to be deleted. The reason, from what I once read, why ABC went for five licenses on Channel 7 was because almost nobody had applied for "high VHF's" (channels 7-13). ABC believed that it would get licenses for the five cities (New York, Detroit, Chicago, San Francisco/Oakland, Los Angeles; all of which had ABC-owned radio stations at the time) they applied for if they applied for Channel 7 in those five cities. It turns out that they did.
Having what was then the network's five O&O's on Channel 7 opened-up a number of promotional and marketing opportunities----the most famous of which being the "Circle 7" logo that all the ABC O&O's adopted around 1962 or 1963, around the same time the network's current logo was adopted. I believe that all the ABC O&O's that broadcast on Channel 7 still use this logo today.
> Having what was then the network's five O&O's on Channel 7
> opened-up a number of promotional and marketing
> opportunities----the most famous of which being the "Circle
> 7" logo that all the ABC O&O's adopted around 1962 or 1963,
> around the same time the network's current logo was adopted.
> I believe that all the ABC O&O's that broadcast on Channel 7
> still use this logo today.
>
They sure do -- apparently, the Circle 7's so successful, many non-O&Os that were on ch.7 (especially on cable from the late-1990s on) also used the logo.
Another benefit of ABC O&Os being on ch.7 is that their signal gets out as far as ch.2 -- I recall on fybush.com of an article that Los Angeles' KABC's channel slot and transmitter location (Mount Wilson, I think) enabled the signal to be transmitted as far south as Ensenada, Mexico, south of Tijuana.
> opened-up a number of promotional and marketing
> opportunities----the most famous of which being the "Circle
> 7" logo that all the ABC O&O's adopted around 1962 or 1963,
> around the same time the network's current logo was adopted.
> I believe that all the ABC O&O's that broadcast on Channel 7
> still use this logo today.
>
They sure do -- apparently, the Circle 7's so successful, many non-O&Os that were on ch.7 (especially on cable from the late-1990s on) also used the logo.
Another benefit of ABC O&Os being on ch.7 is that their signal gets out as far as ch.2 -- I recall on fybush.com of an article that Los Angeles' KABC's channel slot and transmitter location (Mount Wilson, I think) enabled the signal to be transmitted as far south as Ensenada, Mexico, south of Tijuana.
> > Having what was then the network's five O&O's on Channel 7
>
> > opened-up a number of promotional and marketing
> > opportunities----the most famous of which being the
> "Circle
> > 7" logo that all the ABC O&O's adopted around 1962 or
> 1963,
> > around the same time the network's current logo was
> adopted.
> > I believe that all the ABC O&O's that broadcast on Channel
> 7
> > still use this logo today.
> >
> They sure do -- apparently, the Circle 7's so successful,
> many non-O&Os that were on ch.7 (especially on cable from
> the late-1990s on) also used the logo.
WJLA Washington DC uses the circle 7. It used to have the same logo as Australia's Channel 7 network, a logo very similar to the ABC O&O's circle 7.
ixnay
>
> > opened-up a number of promotional and marketing
> > opportunities----the most famous of which being the
> "Circle
> > 7" logo that all the ABC O&O's adopted around 1962 or
> 1963,
> > around the same time the network's current logo was
> adopted.
> > I believe that all the ABC O&O's that broadcast on Channel
> 7
> > still use this logo today.
> >
> They sure do -- apparently, the Circle 7's so successful,
> many non-O&Os that were on ch.7 (especially on cable from
> the late-1990s on) also used the logo.
WJLA Washington DC uses the circle 7. It used to have the same logo as Australia's Channel 7 network, a logo very similar to the ABC O&O's circle 7.
ixnay
> > Having what was then the network's five O&O's on Channel 7
>
> > opened-up a number of promotional and marketing
> > opportunities----the most famous of which being the
> "Circle
> > 7" logo that all the ABC O&O's adopted around 1962 or
> 1963,
> > around the same time the network's current logo was
> adopted.
> > I believe that all the ABC O&O's that broadcast on Channel
> 7
> > still use this logo today.
> >
> They sure do -- apparently, the Circle 7's so successful,
> many non-O&Os that were on ch.7 (especially on cable from
> the late-1990s on) also used the logo.
>
> Another benefit of ABC O&Os being on ch.7 is that their
> signal gets out as far as ch.2 -- I recall on fybush.com of
> an article that Los Angeles' KABC's channel slot and
> transmitter location (Mount Wilson, I think) enabled the
> signal to be transmitted as far south as Ensenada, Mexico,
> south of Tijuana.
>
Brooks and Marsh are correct; NBC was originally assigned
Channel 1 and CBS, Channel 2 in New York. When Channel 1
was reassigned to land-mobile units, NBC was "kicked upstairs"
to Channel 4.
I've heard that ABC was afraid Channels 2-6 were going to
be assigned to the military, making 7 the first position
on the VHF dial. Whether ABC really believed this I don't
know. I do know that, yes, Channel 7 was available in five
large markets: New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, San Francisco,
and Detroit. ABC went in and got the licenses for those
stations and had them all on the air by the end of 1949,
the first network to have five o&os on the air.
I've also heard that Leonard Goldenson considered 7 to be
his lucky number; ABC's telephone number was LT 1-7777, and
777 (I think) was his extension. ABC's address for years
was 7 West 66th Street (it's 77 West 66th Street today).
Nevertheless, CBS and NBC were not deterred from going after
low-VHF o&os and affiliates. For years NBC had three o&os
on Channel 4 (New York, Los Angeles, Washington), one on 3
(Cleveland), and one on 5 (Chicago). CBS had three o&os
on Channel 2 (New York, Los Angeles, Chicago), one on 4
(St. Louis), and (an exception), one on 10 (Philadelphia,
but WCAU was started by members of Bill Paley's family
in the 1920s). When ABC was making all those affiliation
switches in the '70s and early '80s it was, in part, to
get on low VHFs; for example, moving from 11 to 2 in Atlanta,
9 to 5 in Minneapolis, 33 to 2 in Baton Rouge, 26 to 6
in Knoxville, 13 to 6 in Indianapolis, 9 to 2 in Midland/
Odessa, 22 to 2 in Dayton (2 went back to NBC).
>
> > opened-up a number of promotional and marketing
> > opportunities----the most famous of which being the
> "Circle
> > 7" logo that all the ABC O&O's adopted around 1962 or
> 1963,
> > around the same time the network's current logo was
> adopted.
> > I believe that all the ABC O&O's that broadcast on Channel
> 7
> > still use this logo today.
> >
> They sure do -- apparently, the Circle 7's so successful,
> many non-O&Os that were on ch.7 (especially on cable from
> the late-1990s on) also used the logo.
>
> Another benefit of ABC O&Os being on ch.7 is that their
> signal gets out as far as ch.2 -- I recall on fybush.com of
> an article that Los Angeles' KABC's channel slot and
> transmitter location (Mount Wilson, I think) enabled the
> signal to be transmitted as far south as Ensenada, Mexico,
> south of Tijuana.
>
Brooks and Marsh are correct; NBC was originally assigned
Channel 1 and CBS, Channel 2 in New York. When Channel 1
was reassigned to land-mobile units, NBC was "kicked upstairs"
to Channel 4.
I've heard that ABC was afraid Channels 2-6 were going to
be assigned to the military, making 7 the first position
on the VHF dial. Whether ABC really believed this I don't
know. I do know that, yes, Channel 7 was available in five
large markets: New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, San Francisco,
and Detroit. ABC went in and got the licenses for those
stations and had them all on the air by the end of 1949,
the first network to have five o&os on the air.
I've also heard that Leonard Goldenson considered 7 to be
his lucky number; ABC's telephone number was LT 1-7777, and
777 (I think) was his extension. ABC's address for years
was 7 West 66th Street (it's 77 West 66th Street today).
Nevertheless, CBS and NBC were not deterred from going after
low-VHF o&os and affiliates. For years NBC had three o&os
on Channel 4 (New York, Los Angeles, Washington), one on 3
(Cleveland), and one on 5 (Chicago). CBS had three o&os
on Channel 2 (New York, Los Angeles, Chicago), one on 4
(St. Louis), and (an exception), one on 10 (Philadelphia,
but WCAU was started by members of Bill Paley's family
in the 1920s). When ABC was making all those affiliation
switches in the '70s and early '80s it was, in part, to
get on low VHFs; for example, moving from 11 to 2 in Atlanta,
9 to 5 in Minneapolis, 33 to 2 in Baton Rouge, 26 to 6
in Knoxville, 13 to 6 in Indianapolis, 9 to 2 in Midland/
Odessa, 22 to 2 in Dayton (2 went back to NBC).
> > > Having what was then the network's five O&O's on Channel
> 7
> >
> > > opened-up a number of promotional and marketing
> > > opportunities----the most famous of which being the
> > "Circle
> > > 7" logo that all the ABC O&O's adopted around 1962 or
> > 1963,
> > > around the same time the network's current logo was
> > adopted.
> > > I believe that all the ABC O&O's that broadcast on
> Channel
> > 7
> > > still use this logo today.
> > >
> > They sure do -- apparently, the Circle 7's so successful,
> > many non-O&Os that were on ch.7 (especially on cable from
> > the late-1990s on) also used the logo.
>
> WJLA Washington DC uses the circle 7. It used to have the
> same logo as Australia's Channel 7 network, a logo very
> similar to the ABC O&O's circle 7.
>
> ixnay
>
Practically every ABC affiliate on Channel 7 uses the
Circle 7 logo:
KATV Little Rock
KVII Amarillo
WVII Bangor, ME
WBBJ Jackson, TN
KLTV Tyler, TX
KVIA El Paso (which used Circle 13 similar to
KTRK Houston before it swapped channels
with the PBS station in El Paso)
I believe WXYZ is still using it, as is
KOAT Albuquerque.
WKBW Buffalo uses a modified version of the logo.
> 7
> >
> > > opened-up a number of promotional and marketing
> > > opportunities----the most famous of which being the
> > "Circle
> > > 7" logo that all the ABC O&O's adopted around 1962 or
> > 1963,
> > > around the same time the network's current logo was
> > adopted.
> > > I believe that all the ABC O&O's that broadcast on
> Channel
> > 7
> > > still use this logo today.
> > >
> > They sure do -- apparently, the Circle 7's so successful,
> > many non-O&Os that were on ch.7 (especially on cable from
> > the late-1990s on) also used the logo.
>
> WJLA Washington DC uses the circle 7. It used to have the
> same logo as Australia's Channel 7 network, a logo very
> similar to the ABC O&O's circle 7.
>
> ixnay
>
Practically every ABC affiliate on Channel 7 uses the
Circle 7 logo:
KATV Little Rock
KVII Amarillo
WVII Bangor, ME
WBBJ Jackson, TN
KLTV Tyler, TX
KVIA El Paso (which used Circle 13 similar to
KTRK Houston before it swapped channels
with the PBS station in El Paso)
I believe WXYZ is still using it, as is
KOAT Albuquerque.
WKBW Buffalo uses a modified version of the logo.
K
KMRichards
Guest
> For years NBC had three o&os
> on Channel 4 (New York, Los Angeles, Washington), one on 3
> (Cleveland), and one on 5 (Chicago).
And, of course, it is well known that WBKB/Chicago started out on channel 4 (as W9XBK) before that channel allocation was deleted from Chicago and reassigned to Milwaukee and it moved to channel 2 as WBBM-TV. That was how CBS got its Chicago station in the first place; as a result of the United Paramount-ABC merger, the new entity could not own both WBKB and WENR (now WLS-TV), so ABC sold WBKB to CBS.
So it is unlikely that, even if NBC had been the original licensee of channel 4 in Chicago, they would have stayed there.<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
> on Channel 4 (New York, Los Angeles, Washington), one on 3
> (Cleveland), and one on 5 (Chicago).
And, of course, it is well known that WBKB/Chicago started out on channel 4 (as W9XBK) before that channel allocation was deleted from Chicago and reassigned to Milwaukee and it moved to channel 2 as WBBM-TV. That was how CBS got its Chicago station in the first place; as a result of the United Paramount-ABC merger, the new entity could not own both WBKB and WENR (now WLS-TV), so ABC sold WBKB to CBS.
So it is unlikely that, even if NBC had been the original licensee of channel 4 in Chicago, they would have stayed there.<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
Buffalo was unique in that eventhough their VHF allocations were 2, 4, and 7, NBC chose to establish an O&O station on channel 17 (which evolved into today's WNED) - a very early UHF experiment that failed. Channel 4 was already taken by the CBS affiliate WBEN, and ABC was on channel 2 (WGR), but of course neither were ever O&Os. Channel 7 didn't go on the air until Channel 17 went dark.
DuMont, on the other hand, seems to have had a desire to use channel 5, as their two early stations in New York and Washington were on channel 5. That obviously didn't get too far.
<P ID="signature">______________
From WNBC-TV New York this is Liiiiive at Fiiiiive!</P><P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by mjlarochelle on 12/02/05 04:44 PM.</FONT></P>
DuMont, on the other hand, seems to have had a desire to use channel 5, as their two early stations in New York and Washington were on channel 5. That obviously didn't get too far.
<P ID="signature">______________
From WNBC-TV New York this is Liiiiive at Fiiiiive!</P><P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by mjlarochelle on 12/02/05 04:44 PM.</FONT></P>
T
TampaTV
Guest
> When ABC was making all those affiliation
> switches in the '70s and early '80s it was, in part, to
> get on low VHFs; for example, moving from 11 to 2 in
> Atlanta,
> 9 to 5 in Minneapolis, 33 to 2 in Baton Rouge, 26 to 6
> in Knoxville, 13 to 6 in Indianapolis, 9 to 2 in Midland/
> Odessa, 22 to 2 in Dayton (2 went back to NBC).
I have one more for you, in Waco/Temple, TX. ABC moved from 25 to 6. Then to confuse everyone even more, a few years later NBC got 6 back and ABC went back to 25.
> switches in the '70s and early '80s it was, in part, to
> get on low VHFs; for example, moving from 11 to 2 in
> Atlanta,
> 9 to 5 in Minneapolis, 33 to 2 in Baton Rouge, 26 to 6
> in Knoxville, 13 to 6 in Indianapolis, 9 to 2 in Midland/
> Odessa, 22 to 2 in Dayton (2 went back to NBC).
I have one more for you, in Waco/Temple, TX. ABC moved from 25 to 6. Then to confuse everyone even more, a few years later NBC got 6 back and ABC went back to 25.
> DuMont, on the other hand, seems to have had a desire to use
> channel 5, as their two early stations in New York and
> Washington were on channel 5. That obviously didn't get too
> far.
What was the DuMont-owned (but affiliated with all four networks) station in Pittsburgh on? 5? Or was it 11?
<P ID="signature">______________
The Pab Sungenis Project - http://www.lowbudgetradio.com</P>
> channel 5, as their two early stations in New York and
> Washington were on channel 5. That obviously didn't get too
> far.
What was the DuMont-owned (but affiliated with all four networks) station in Pittsburgh on? 5? Or was it 11?
<P ID="signature">______________
The Pab Sungenis Project - http://www.lowbudgetradio.com</P>
S
SweetT8201
Guest
> > When ABC was making all those affiliation
> > switches in the '70s and early '80s it was, in part, to
> > get on low VHFs; for example, moving from 11 to 2 in
> > Atlanta,
> > 9 to 5 in Minneapolis, 33 to 2 in Baton Rouge, 26 to 6
> > in Knoxville, 13 to 6 in Indianapolis, 9 to 2 in Midland/
> > Odessa, 22 to 2 in Dayton (2 went back to NBC).
>
> I have one more for you, in Waco/Temple, TX. ABC moved from
> 25 to 6. Then to confuse everyone even more, a few years
> later NBC got 6 back and ABC went back to 25.
And another one... in Savannah, ABC moved from 22 to 3, and then back to 22.
> > switches in the '70s and early '80s it was, in part, to
> > get on low VHFs; for example, moving from 11 to 2 in
> > Atlanta,
> > 9 to 5 in Minneapolis, 33 to 2 in Baton Rouge, 26 to 6
> > in Knoxville, 13 to 6 in Indianapolis, 9 to 2 in Midland/
> > Odessa, 22 to 2 in Dayton (2 went back to NBC).
>
> I have one more for you, in Waco/Temple, TX. ABC moved from
> 25 to 6. Then to confuse everyone even more, a few years
> later NBC got 6 back and ABC went back to 25.
And another one... in Savannah, ABC moved from 22 to 3, and then back to 22.
M
Mark_Ericson
Guest
> What was the DuMont-owned (but affiliated with all four
> networks) station in Pittsburgh on? 5? Or was it 11?
WDTV-3.
Later became KDKA-2.
WDTV calls live on on channel 5 in Weston/Clarksburg, WV.
- Trip<P ID="signature">______________
Visit my website, www.rabbitears.info! It's eventually going to be your one resource for television info! Digital television, histories, and technical information for the entire USA from one source!</P>
> networks) station in Pittsburgh on? 5? Or was it 11?
WDTV-3.
Later became KDKA-2.
WDTV calls live on on channel 5 in Weston/Clarksburg, WV.
- Trip<P ID="signature">______________
Visit my website, www.rabbitears.info! It's eventually going to be your one resource for television info! Digital television, histories, and technical information for the entire USA from one source!</P>
J
Joseph_Gallant
Guest
Pittsburgh (Was: Re: CBS 2 NBC 4 ABC 7)
Pab asked:
> What was the DuMont-owned (but affiliated with all four
> networks) station in Pittsburgh on? 5? Or was it 11?
The station, known as WDTV, started on Channel 3 but was moved around 1953 to Channel 2. It was sold in late 1954 to Group W/Westinghouse, and re-named KDKA-TV.
As other Pittsburgh stations signed-on, KDKA decided to let go of it's ABC and NBC affiliations (DuMont had ceased network operations by that time), and become a fulltime CBS affiliate.
Pab asked:
> What was the DuMont-owned (but affiliated with all four
> networks) station in Pittsburgh on? 5? Or was it 11?
The station, known as WDTV, started on Channel 3 but was moved around 1953 to Channel 2. It was sold in late 1954 to Group W/Westinghouse, and re-named KDKA-TV.
As other Pittsburgh stations signed-on, KDKA decided to let go of it's ABC and NBC affiliations (DuMont had ceased network operations by that time), and become a fulltime CBS affiliate.
> Practically every ABC affiliate on Channel 7 uses the
> Circle 7 logo:
>
> KVIA El Paso (which used Circle 13 similar to
> KTRK Houston before it swapped channels
> with the PBS station in El Paso)
Which Circle 13 -- the current one that KTRK (and WTVG Toledo) uses now, or the one that was in use from the early-1970s to the mid-1990s (with the bottom of the "3" trailing off)?
> WKBW Buffalo uses a modified version of the logo.
>
The one with two straight lines? It seems there are many modified Circle-7s out there, mainly in use by NBC and CBS stations.
Those looking closest to ABC's Circle 7 are WSVN Miami (Fox) / WHDH Boston (NBC), WZVN Fort Myers (ABC) and WHIO Dayton (CBS).<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by rugrats1 on 12/02/05 11:38 PM.</FONT></P>
> Circle 7 logo:
>
> KVIA El Paso (which used Circle 13 similar to
> KTRK Houston before it swapped channels
> with the PBS station in El Paso)
Which Circle 13 -- the current one that KTRK (and WTVG Toledo) uses now, or the one that was in use from the early-1970s to the mid-1990s (with the bottom of the "3" trailing off)?
> WKBW Buffalo uses a modified version of the logo.
>
The one with two straight lines? It seems there are many modified Circle-7s out there, mainly in use by NBC and CBS stations.
Those looking closest to ABC's Circle 7 are WSVN Miami (Fox) / WHDH Boston (NBC), WZVN Fort Myers (ABC) and WHIO Dayton (CBS).<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by rugrats1 on 12/02/05 11:38 PM.</FONT></P>
Re: Circle 7 logos
> > WKBW Buffalo uses a modified version of the logo.
> >
> The one with two straight lines? It seems there are many
> modified Circle-7s out there, mainly in use by NBC and CBS
> stations.
-----------
WKBW has had several versions of modified Circle-7s. In the 70s until about 1981 they had a serif 7 inside a circle, and before that, they had a big fat 7 in a circle.
WWNY Carthage/Watertown (CBS) has had a Circle-7 since the late 1980s. The 7 is not attached to any of the circle though. Way better than the inverted-triangle-with-a-line-down-the-middle logo they had in the mid-80s.
In Canada, CFTO Toronto (CTV) had a Circle-9 logo at one point with the 9 attached to the circle, I believe in the 1970s. Around 1979-1980, Montreal's CBMT (CBC) had its Channel 6 moniker inside a shape, but not a circle - they used a hexagon.<P ID="signature">______________
From WNBC-TV New York this is Liiiiive at Fiiiiive!</P><P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by mjlarochelle on 12/03/05 02:34 AM.</FONT></P>
> > WKBW Buffalo uses a modified version of the logo.
> >
> The one with two straight lines? It seems there are many
> modified Circle-7s out there, mainly in use by NBC and CBS
> stations.
-----------
WKBW has had several versions of modified Circle-7s. In the 70s until about 1981 they had a serif 7 inside a circle, and before that, they had a big fat 7 in a circle.
WWNY Carthage/Watertown (CBS) has had a Circle-7 since the late 1980s. The 7 is not attached to any of the circle though. Way better than the inverted-triangle-with-a-line-down-the-middle logo they had in the mid-80s.
In Canada, CFTO Toronto (CTV) had a Circle-9 logo at one point with the 9 attached to the circle, I believe in the 1970s. Around 1979-1980, Montreal's CBMT (CBC) had its Channel 6 moniker inside a shape, but not a circle - they used a hexagon.<P ID="signature">______________
From WNBC-TV New York this is Liiiiive at Fiiiiive!</P><P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by mjlarochelle on 12/03/05 02:34 AM.</FONT></P>
C
ChrisTheListener
Guest
> > How did CBS got 2, NBC got 4 and ABC got 7 in major
> markets?
> >
> At one time it was thought by ABC that the low VHF would be
> eliminated. Thus ABC wanted Channel 7. This would allow them
> to be first on the dial after low VHF (channels 2-6) were
> eliminated.
>
> NBC wound up on channel 4 in NYC, and optioned that channel
> in other markets where it had O&O and Channel 4 was
> available for consistancy. In other markets Channel 5 was
> NBC.
>
> CBS had to play catch up. At first in such major markets as
> Chicago and Los Angeles they didn't O&O. I think it had
> something to do with CBS beliveing that with a new system
> all TV would move to UHF. So when they went after TV
> Stations they wanted low VHF if possible.
>
> Low VHF has poorer reception than the higher VHF channels
> but has a couple of advantages. It uses less power and it
> travels farther. In days before cable being on Channel 2
> meant your signal went farther. Even if the people in the
> fringes got only barely watchable TV, in the days before
> cable, that was good enough.
>
> So when CBS realized TV wasn't going to all go to UHF they
> decided to buy some TV stations. They naturally wanted low
> VHF and with NBC on 4 and 5 mostly, that left 2 and 3 for
> CBS.
>
> Of course there are many exceptions to this.
>
Proof that everything is better in Texas:
Here in Dallas, it is NBC 5, ABC 8, and originally CBS 4. One above the others.
Now, FOX 4.. CBS 11
~CTL<P ID="signature">______________
"Welcome to radio-info.com...where we hate everything!!!!! You people are radio's equivalent to the two old guys in the balcony on the Muppet show!"
~FoReal?</P>
> markets?
> >
> At one time it was thought by ABC that the low VHF would be
> eliminated. Thus ABC wanted Channel 7. This would allow them
> to be first on the dial after low VHF (channels 2-6) were
> eliminated.
>
> NBC wound up on channel 4 in NYC, and optioned that channel
> in other markets where it had O&O and Channel 4 was
> available for consistancy. In other markets Channel 5 was
> NBC.
>
> CBS had to play catch up. At first in such major markets as
> Chicago and Los Angeles they didn't O&O. I think it had
> something to do with CBS beliveing that with a new system
> all TV would move to UHF. So when they went after TV
> Stations they wanted low VHF if possible.
>
> Low VHF has poorer reception than the higher VHF channels
> but has a couple of advantages. It uses less power and it
> travels farther. In days before cable being on Channel 2
> meant your signal went farther. Even if the people in the
> fringes got only barely watchable TV, in the days before
> cable, that was good enough.
>
> So when CBS realized TV wasn't going to all go to UHF they
> decided to buy some TV stations. They naturally wanted low
> VHF and with NBC on 4 and 5 mostly, that left 2 and 3 for
> CBS.
>
> Of course there are many exceptions to this.
>
Proof that everything is better in Texas:
Here in Dallas, it is NBC 5, ABC 8, and originally CBS 4. One above the others.
Now, FOX 4.. CBS 11
~CTL<P ID="signature">______________
"Welcome to radio-info.com...where we hate everything!!!!! You people are radio's equivalent to the two old guys in the balcony on the Muppet show!"
~FoReal?</P>
> > Another benefit of ABC O&Os being on ch.7 is that their
> > signal gets out as far as ch.2 -- I recall on fybush.com
> of
> > an article that Los Angeles' KABC's channel slot and
> > transmitter location (Mount Wilson, I think) enabled the
> > signal to be transmitted as far south as Ensenada, Mexico,
>
> > south of Tijuana.
Actually, I think I was talking about KLOS(FM) at that point. All the Mount Wilson stations get out quite well to the south.
> Brooks and Marsh are correct; NBC was originally assigned
> Channel 1 and CBS, Channel 2 in New York. When Channel 1
> was reassigned to land-mobile units, NBC was "kicked
> upstairs"
> to Channel 4.
And, even back then, the meaning of "Channel 1" was a little fluid. While WNBT always had the "Channel 1" designation, the actual frequencies used changed somewhat over the years. I believe the original Channel 1 was 50-56 MHz, which overlaps today's channel 2.
Later, the FCC decided to designate channel 1 as a "local" channel in smaller communities, assigning it (for instance) to Riverside, California. None of those channel 1s made it on the air before the channel was eliminated completely.
> I've also heard that Leonard Goldenson considered 7 to be
> his lucky number; ABC's telephone number was LT 1-7777, and
> 777 (I think) was his extension. ABC's address for years
> was 7 West 66th Street (it's 77 West 66th Street today).
And let us not forget that it made for a nifty tie-in with the radio flagship, 77 WABC...
In later years, the main ABC number became 887-7777 and, now, 456-7777.
> CBS had three o&os
> on Channel 2 (New York, Los Angeles, Chicago), one on 4
> (St. Louis), and (an exception), one on 10 (Philadelphia,
> but WCAU was started by members of Bill Paley's family
> in the 1920s).
That was true for the radio side. Channel 10 actually began life as WPEN-TV, the third TV outlet on the air in Philadelphia. (Philco's WPTZ 3 and Annenberg's WFIL-TV 6 beat it to the air.)
I don't believe 10 ever took air as WPEN-TV; by the time it made it to the airwaves, it had been purchased by WCAU (which was at that point NOT owned by CBS or the Paley family). It wasn't until 1958 that WCAU-TV became an O&O.
> When ABC was making all those affiliation
> switches in the '70s and early '80s it was, in part, to
> get on low VHFs; for example, moving from 11 to 2 in
> Atlanta,
> 9 to 5 in Minneapolis, 33 to 2 in Baton Rouge, 26 to 6
> in Knoxville, 13 to 6 in Indianapolis, 9 to 2 in Midland/
> Odessa, 22 to 2 in Dayton (2 went back to NBC).
What ABC was doing wasn't so much getting on low Vs - it was shedding its initial crop of low-rated local outlets and hooking up with what were, in many cases, the elite stations in each community - WSB, KSTP and so on. That they happened to be low-Vs was somewhat to be expected. (And not always true, in any case - in Providence, moving up in the world for ABC meant a move from 6 to 12, for instance.)<P ID="signature">______________
Tower Site Calendar 2006 JUST RELEASED! - <a target="_blank" href=http://www.fybush.com/nerw.html#calendar>www.fybush.com</a></P>
> > signal gets out as far as ch.2 -- I recall on fybush.com
> of
> > an article that Los Angeles' KABC's channel slot and
> > transmitter location (Mount Wilson, I think) enabled the
> > signal to be transmitted as far south as Ensenada, Mexico,
>
> > south of Tijuana.
Actually, I think I was talking about KLOS(FM) at that point. All the Mount Wilson stations get out quite well to the south.
> Brooks and Marsh are correct; NBC was originally assigned
> Channel 1 and CBS, Channel 2 in New York. When Channel 1
> was reassigned to land-mobile units, NBC was "kicked
> upstairs"
> to Channel 4.
And, even back then, the meaning of "Channel 1" was a little fluid. While WNBT always had the "Channel 1" designation, the actual frequencies used changed somewhat over the years. I believe the original Channel 1 was 50-56 MHz, which overlaps today's channel 2.
Later, the FCC decided to designate channel 1 as a "local" channel in smaller communities, assigning it (for instance) to Riverside, California. None of those channel 1s made it on the air before the channel was eliminated completely.
> I've also heard that Leonard Goldenson considered 7 to be
> his lucky number; ABC's telephone number was LT 1-7777, and
> 777 (I think) was his extension. ABC's address for years
> was 7 West 66th Street (it's 77 West 66th Street today).
And let us not forget that it made for a nifty tie-in with the radio flagship, 77 WABC...
In later years, the main ABC number became 887-7777 and, now, 456-7777.
> CBS had three o&os
> on Channel 2 (New York, Los Angeles, Chicago), one on 4
> (St. Louis), and (an exception), one on 10 (Philadelphia,
> but WCAU was started by members of Bill Paley's family
> in the 1920s).
That was true for the radio side. Channel 10 actually began life as WPEN-TV, the third TV outlet on the air in Philadelphia. (Philco's WPTZ 3 and Annenberg's WFIL-TV 6 beat it to the air.)
I don't believe 10 ever took air as WPEN-TV; by the time it made it to the airwaves, it had been purchased by WCAU (which was at that point NOT owned by CBS or the Paley family). It wasn't until 1958 that WCAU-TV became an O&O.
> When ABC was making all those affiliation
> switches in the '70s and early '80s it was, in part, to
> get on low VHFs; for example, moving from 11 to 2 in
> Atlanta,
> 9 to 5 in Minneapolis, 33 to 2 in Baton Rouge, 26 to 6
> in Knoxville, 13 to 6 in Indianapolis, 9 to 2 in Midland/
> Odessa, 22 to 2 in Dayton (2 went back to NBC).
What ABC was doing wasn't so much getting on low Vs - it was shedding its initial crop of low-rated local outlets and hooking up with what were, in many cases, the elite stations in each community - WSB, KSTP and so on. That they happened to be low-Vs was somewhat to be expected. (And not always true, in any case - in Providence, moving up in the world for ABC meant a move from 6 to 12, for instance.)<P ID="signature">______________
Tower Site Calendar 2006 JUST RELEASED! - <a target="_blank" href=http://www.fybush.com/nerw.html#calendar>www.fybush.com</a></P>
- Status