CBS-FM ANALYSIS

[semoochie]

I was taught not to play 2 female vocalists back to back but that was in 1972. The reason given was because women didn't like them! I would say that times have changed.

 

[davideduardo]

But these stations do use research and are consulted. WLNG flies pretty blind on its own instincts and has for years and has been more than successful.

I doubt any do local research, as billings of $1 million just can not pay for the cost of doing it. I would imagine that staitons that are part of groups use test data from a larger and somewhat comparable market. Others may just do a custom report in MediaBase and go by the consensus for their format in the region.

260 is an extrap from 18 (Nassau Suffolk) which is an extrap from 1 (New York).

Please check a dictionary for the meaning of the term "extrapolation." Any embedded market survey is a full survey on its own, weighted and sampled with local proportionality even if the data is also used as part of a larger, global market.

The Hamptons market has a sample quota for that one area, and it is separately processed for the local market report. While Nassau / Suffolk includes that region, the Hamptons book is just what you expect... a survey of people in market 260.

WLNG is well respected in the Long Island radio community and well known by small market owners across the country.

If I own a business, I know I can not deposit plaques and respect. I also have to make money. And no station in that market makes much money. WADO AM in NY bills more than all the Hamptons stations combined.

Believe me, I don't think the major players involved worry.

The major players, like Barnstable, have economy of scale. I't bet a lot of back office is done at one of the other LI stations, and that they still don't make very much off the Hamptons.

Again, since you are out of touch with this market, you are incorrect. There is no doubt in radio circles that people understand.

Understand what? That except for chief engineer, Sidney is listed as every single department head in the staiton, including promotion director and traffic director. It's a small station, period. And in a market where nobody researches locally, it survives and makes a, probably, decent income for the owner. But you called it a cash cow, which is absurd.

I really don't care about the comments on WLNG. It does a fine job as a station in a tiny market, but there are hundreds, if not thousands, of comparable small market stations in the US, all doing death notices and church bazaars. Placing WLNG on a pedestal as being unique is ingenuous. It's a good little radio station, but the nation is filled with good little stations.

 

[OldiesCat]

I was taught not to play 2 female vocalists back to back but that was in 1972. The reason given was because women didn't like them! I would say that times have changed.

That was a lousy excuse, even back then. A bunch of white men deciding what women like. Indeed, 37 years later, times have changed (thank God!). A hit is a hit. Never, ever heard a female say, "y'know, I liked those 2 songs but back-to-back by female artists? What WERE they thinking? It made me change the station". LOL

 

[Yeziknoradio]

Ok, somewhere in this thread, there's room to add in the reminder that the rule of thumb for oldies is music that is at least 25 years old. Anything else (younger) is either retro, or classic hits.

This would effectivly make the music of the early 80's "oldies" music, and the music of the later 80's classic hits or retro.

I believe the words "classic oldies" are what some people are looking for here...there's your 50's/60's classic powerhouse folks. I think you'll have to resort to Sirius or XM for that though.

 

[wgliradio]

Please check a dictionary for the meaning of the term "extrapolation."

ex·trap·o·late -verb
Mathematics. to determine alternate values from inside a known range.

If I own a business, I know I can not deposit plaques and respect. I also have to make money. And no station in that market makes much money. WADO AM in NY bills more than all the Hamptons stations combined.

Ahh WADO. The 50kw station you can't hear at 5th and 42nd. From Patterson Plank Rd to Rt 3 and back. Possibly the worst sounding station in a market that is home to WZRC, that is saying something.

The major players, like Barnstable, have economy of scale. I't bet a lot of back office is done at one of the other LI stations, and that they still don't make very much off the Hamptons.

I was speaking about the people who have an interest at WLNG, not Barnstable.

I really don't care about the comments on WLNG.

Because it shows you are wrong... again.

It does a fine job as a station in a tiny market, but there are hundreds, if not thousands, of comparable small market stations in the US, all doing death notices and church bazaars. Placing WLNG on a pedestal as being unique is ingenuous. It's a good little radio station, but the nation is filled with good little stations.

All of the sudden you want nothing to do with it when you're faced with the truth... again. If you didn't care about this LNG conversation, you would have bailed a long time ago. But again, you thought you were right, I showed you up again. You lose. Or do you want to argue with someone who actually programmed against WLNG? You're better off 2500 miles away telling us about CBS-FM, LNG and the wonderful WADO.

 

[Robert Bass]

On a similar note, like Rusty Potz used to say: "Never play two female artists back to back!"

That's irrelevant thinking nowadays. If the number of female artists on your playlist is very low, that analogy might work. But as we've seen, female artists have made an impact, in the world of music, of their own.

R

 

[Robert Bass]

So, then (while I might not have Little Richard and Cyndi Lauper on my station), what "bad" is there for the listener playing them next to each other, or two female acts back-to-back?

(THIS should be good LOL)

I can see it all now...

WPMS... All Female Artists, all the time!

;D

(diving for cover)

R

 

[mcmannors]

On a similar note, like Rusty Potz used to say: "Never play two female artists back to back!"

That's irrelevant thinking nowadays. If the number of female artists on your playlist is very low, that analogy might work. But as we've seen, female artists have made an impact, in the world of music, of their own.

R

Rusty Potz actually made that statement about 25 years ago. While I was in the studio staring at the "10,000 golden oldies".

I was actually joking when I brought up the Potz quote. I was sort of inferring that Little Richard was the same as a female artist. ;D

 

[semoochie]

This is the way large amounts of women used to think. It's the same reasoning that defeated the equal rights amendment and yes, I know there were other factors but when fewer women were working outside of the home, this is how they thought or at least claimed to think. I actually heard women say they didn't want equal rights!

 

[OldiesCat]

Women's rights notwithstanding, us discussing "the way we learned it" and how it "used to be" is irrelevant, unless you enjoy being stuck with old radio-speak "rules" and philosophies radio people have stuck with for 35 years while the entire landscape around them changes continuously.

Personally, I always thought Rusty Potz was a hack, anyway.

 

[fang39]

So, then (while I might not have Little Richard and Cyndi Lauper on my station), what "bad" is there for the listener playing them next to each other, or two female acts back-to-back?

(THIS should be good LOL)

I can see it all now...

WPMS... All Female Artists, all the time!

;D(diving for cover)

R

I guess you haven't heard about the new "Sophie" format that relaced Free-FM on 103.7 in San Diego and is bring rolled out across the country. Don't laugh...Here's their "mission statement" as listed on their website:

http://www.radiosophie.com/pages/619959.php?

"Sophie is a creative, active professional suceeding in the world. She's athletic and hold true the belief that we have one body, mind and soul. It's not to be wasted. She's definitely into her music, her friends and is ambitious to suceed in her career, whether she's a graphic designer, software sales executive, bartender in the Gaslamp or a lawyer working downtown.

It doesn't matter to her what you do but hwo you are as an individual. It's her lifestyle that she shares with her friends and she's passionate about it. The driving soundtrack of her busy life is completely in-tune with Sophie @ 103.7.

Sophie @ 103.7 is reclaiming the "tastemakers", this group of listeners who've refused to compromise with radio whgen it comes to their musical tastes and choices that don't satisfy their thirst for new music. Sophie @ 103.7 is about reclaiming these people who've turned to new media like the mp3 player, internet and satellite radio. Now there's a reason to leave the iPod at home."


[Link added as a courtesy by Radio Info]

 

[fang39]

Women's rights notwithstanding, us discussing "the way we learned it" and how it "used to be" is irrelevant, unless you enjoy being stuck with old radio-speak "rules" and philosophies radio people have stuck with for 35 years while the entire landscape around them changes continuously.

Personally, I always thought Rusty Potz was a hack, anyway.

That must be why he's been on the air at WLNG for 30+ years (as DE states) "in one of the most expensive places in the US to live."

 

[fang39]

Since you have no ties to any of these stations, you don't know what you're talking about, again.

Why would having ties matter? The market is too small to afford any kind of formal music testing, due to cost.

It matters because if you knew the area, you would realize the impact a station like WLNG has on the local market. They've dominated the east end for years, book or no book.

Ask anyone who owns any of these stations, or any station in Market 18 itself for that matter if they wouldn't want a brand like WLNG,

I don't know how you can compare market 18 with market 260.

Much of the #260 market is made of of seasonal residents who come from #1 and #18.

they would give their left nut for the type of community and local recognition WLNG has built and the cash cow it is.

WEHM, WRCN and WLNG bill nearly identically. The real issue is how much you can make on billings of $1.2 million average, after expenses. It is really, for the owner, unless a cluster or group, guaranteed lifetime employment in one of the most expensive places in the US to live.

You can not have a "cash cow" billing just over a million. After expenses, there is no much left. A cash cow is one of the top NYC FMs, not a class A in a tiny, tiny market. In fact, it is really not a separate rated market... just an embedded market in the Nassau Suffolk overall market... it's a breakout.

Maybe Paul Sidney enjoys being GM, PD, GSM and half the other things at the station (He was in the International Broadcasters Idea Bank back when he only had the 1600 AM), but most people would not consider that enviable.

I guess you don't consider WLNG successful because Paul Sydney doesn't rely on mediabase and outside consultants (like you)?

 

[OldiesCat]

That must be why he's been on the air at WLNG for 30+ years (as DE states) "in one of the most expensive places in the US to live."

My reference was to the generic "Rusty Potz" radio guy nickname for nobody in particular. Wasn't aware there's actually a real, live Rusty Potz.

 

[fang39]

That must be why he's been on the air at WLNG for 30+ years (as DE states) "in one of the most expensive places in the US to live."

My reference was to the generic "Rusty Potz" radio guy nickname for nobody in particular. Wasn't aware there's actually a real, live Rusty Potz.

Yup. He's been the PM drive jock on WLNG since 1975.

 

[OldiesCat]

That must be why he's been on the air at WLNG for 30+ years (as DE states) "in one of the most expensive places in the US to live."

My reference was to the generic "Rusty Potz" radio guy nickname for nobody in particular. Wasn't aware there's actually a real, live Rusty Potz.

Yup. He's been the PM drive jock on WLNG since 1975.

Do they also have a Sandy Beach?

 

[mcmannors]

That must be why he's been on the air at WLNG for 30+ years (as DE states) "in one of the most expensive places in the US to live."

My reference was to the generic "Rusty Potz" radio guy nickname for nobody in particular. Wasn't aware there's actually a real, live Rusty Potz.

Yup. He's been the PM drive jock on WLNG since 1975.

Actually, Potz started at WLNG doing 6-10 pm (sign off at that time). Paul Sidney did PM drive for the longest time. Potz has only been doing PM drive in recent years, since Sidney has been "slowing down". ;D

 

[davideduardo]

Please check a dictionary for the meaning of the term "extrapolation."

ex·trap·o·late -verb
Mathematics. to determine alternate values from inside a known range.

You just proved that the Hamptons book is NOT an extrapolation.

For example, if you lost your June sales report, but you have April and May and the Total sales for the second quarter, you extrapolate June by subtracting April and May from the total.

Or, in radio, if you know the actuals from February and March, and the Feb-Mar-april trend comes out, you multiply the Trend number by 3, subtract February and March and you have an unweighted extrapolation for April.

In other words, extrapolation is creating a data point based on things things that you do know and the assumption that the missing piece of data is consistent with the known data. In the sales example, extrapolation yields a 100% perfect match, while in ratings you get a number that is reasonable, but not exact.

The Hamptons book is a set of diaries, proportional to the (tiny) market that is processed just like any other market. The local book is unaffected by the fact that the same diaries are also used, independently, as a component for the NY book and the LI subset.

 

[PeteRFNY]

Yup. He's been the PM drive jock on WLNG since 1975.

And he's GREAT. Always been great. Rusty could have worked anywhere if he wanted to...but it's great that he's still a constant at 'LNG! ;D

 

[fang39]

That must be why he's been on the air at WLNG for 30+ years (as DE states) "in one of the most expensive places in the US to live."

My reference was to the generic "Rusty Potz" radio guy nickname for nobody in particular. Wasn't aware there's actually a real, live Rusty Potz.

Yup. He's been the PM drive jock on WLNG since 1975.

Actually, Potz started at WLNG doing 6-10 pm (sign off at that time). Paul Sidney did PM drive for the longest time. Potz has only been doing PM drive in recent years, since Sidney has been "slowing down". ;D

I can remember hearing Rusty in the afternoon as early as 1981, when I first started tuning into LNG upon my many trips to the Hamptons. Don't know if he was the regular PM drive host or not at that point, though.